89TA383M5

Blew my T5 with 2000 miles on it since I had the G-force kit put in and even spent the extra money on the upgraded mainshaft. Called them up today and was very polite and told him the situation and he told me that he cant help me. Wasnt even willing to take anything off the price to buy a new kit. I asked why he thought his kit didnt hold up and he tried telling me that my case is probable bad. It had over 100k on it with 10k of abuse from my 383 that was in it before the stock trans started to go bad before I had the g-force internals put in. I could tell the guy didnt care about me and didnt even want to be on the phone. Worst customer service ever.

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

Well that pretty much proves what most say about T5's. Until someone figures a way to strengthen the case, they'll always be susceptible to breaking.

Sucks man.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

they have improved cases.....



sucks they won't help you out. did you install the parts? what broke specifically? just want to know for my own curiosity

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

Who makes a stronger case?

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

G-force

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

Thats BS .. One more reason people are going t56. I thought about g force but just for that very reason of risking 200$ im going t56 instead. Thats pretty much bull**** they treated you like that after investing 2k in there product that didnt do what it was intended to do. I would not let up on them untill you get some type of real answers. 2000$ isnt exactly pocket change.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

maybe the key is to buy from a licensed g-force dealer rather than direct?.... if you still want a G-force kit

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

any parts left salvagable??? maybee you could repair it save some money. or sell whats left to get some back.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

buying from a "dealer" just puts another person in the middle. You spent 2k with G-Force they should take care of you. I was thinking of upgrading my T5, but I've only heard bad things about them... add this one...

Anyone had good experiences?

Rafael

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I said it in another post and I will say it again TKO600 BABY!!!! everyone gripes about spending $2000 for a trans, but most guys with big power end up spending that much in the end anyway. Go with the best the 1st time around and save headaches.

TKOPerformance

First off, what broke is a very important question. If the problem is synchro or bearing related then G-Force isn't going to warrnt anything. It is very rare that a gear breaks, but if it does you can buy just the affected gear to replace it, at a substantial cost savings.

On the other hand, G-Force's customer service hasn't been up to sunff lately. I had to wait months for kits, and even buying from the largest East Coast distributor of their products didn't help. They kept saying ht ekits would be available at such and such a date, the date would come and go only to be followed with another empty promise of two more weeks or the like.

It's a double edged sword. If you want the ease of using an externally stock trans then G-Force is great. The gears and mainshafts are super strong, nearly unbreakable, even under what would be considered abuse on a regular trans. If you want it done in a timely fashion then T56 or Tremec is a better bet.

BTW, Tremecs were also not without their problems. A lot of the first couple batches had improperly machined reverse forks that wouldn't allow the trans to go into reverse. No one discovered this until after their trans was installed. Tremec made good, but the hassle was considerable.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I've had no problems with mine. But in saying that, I didn't just buy the kit and installed it myself. They (G Force) built the whole thing, and they supplied the case too. Since I bought it, I've gotten emails from Mike Long (the VP) asking how it was holding up for me and if I was overall happy with it. Heck, he even gave me a free quart of the EP additive for thier gearsets (worth 38 bucks!)

But -I'll agree -the customer service is a bit lacking. I know "Bubba" never returned any of my calls, so I ended up calling them several times. Was it frustrating? - yes. But to be perfectly honest, I've gotten even worse service from other places. A couple of these places are popular with most everyone else and highly praised for there great customer service, but I had problems. So I guess what I'm saying is there's good and bad service EVERYWHERE. Sometimes it just depends on who you talk to, what day it is, etc...but hey, I don't work for G Force, so they can defend themselves. Sorry to hear people are having problems. Hope it works out for you.

Xlr8torZ28

iTrader: (19)

The T5s work pretty good... for Mustangs... Mustangs are shorter than the Camaro, A little lighter, and also produce alot less torque than a TPI car. Torque is the downfall of the T5. I had a '79 Z28 with a full Edelbrock performer RPM package (intake, carb, cam, heads etc...) with a WC T5 behind it. When I got the T5 it was in for about 3 weeks and came apart. I let Standard Transmission and Gear (in Fort Worth, Texas) rebuild it for me after asking several questions about how reliable it would be on that motor. He told me I shouldnt have any problems. So after getting it rebuilt, it lasted about 1 month and blew. They ended up rebuilding it 4 times for me until I said just get me a TH350 and I'll never bother you again. Their service was awesome, the T5 wasnt. The best chance a T5 has is with good gears and a lighter car. Power has to have a release somewhere, either the wheels move or something breaks, which is usually the weakest point.

TKOPerformance

That's very astute, but keep in mind that the only reason Tremecs exist is because of the 5.0 Mustang. Based on 3rd gen demand alone those transmissions never would have made it to market. It was the large and rabid 5.0 crowd that made it happen, but the same is true of the G-Force gearsets. 3rd gens benefit from using a trans that is 90% the same as a Ford T5.

Driving style plays a big role in trans life too. Hooking the car up will really test what everything is made of. In a powerful car with good traction even a T56 or Tremec can bite the dust. I've fixed dozens of M21 and M22 Muncies that met a similar fate, and at one point they were the God of transmissions for GM guys. Power+weight+traction=broken parts

700hproush

Hello,

I normally never post anything on these forums because personally I think nothing good comes out of it, BUT, because everybody seems to think they are expert transmission technicians and engineers, I felt the need to clarify a few things.

First of all, please understand that before anyone questions our products or assumes that we do not take care of our customers, please be aware that we have sold over 500 of these T5 kits in the past 2 and a half years with VERY few problems. They are made by the same people on the same machines with, in most cases, the same material that we manufacture our Nextel Cup, Busch, and Truck tranmission parts with. There are no "rejects" or "seconds" used in our kits. If we do have a part (normally a setup piece from machining) and it isn't perfect, we will inform the customer and let it up to them as to whether or not they want it if that's all that is available. Normally it's just a cosmetic flaw. We will NOT use any parts that will be questionable in performance. If someone questions the quality of the parts (material, heat treat, etc.) then they should send them out to a metallury lab for analisys because I can assuse you that isn't the cause of the failure.

Secondly, and I will be very straightforward about this, we DO NOT WARRANTY parts for breakage!!!!! Let me explain why. Our kits are rated UP TO 600 CRANK horsepower. For instance, if you have a standard Mustang or Camaro that weighs about 3400-3600 lb. with a 6000 RPM motor and a REASONABLE clutch (i.e. stock or mild upgrade - like a King Cobra or similar with a full-circle organic disk) and STREET tires, the trans will most likely take about 600 crank hp (actually we've seen them take over 700). However, if you take the same car and the same driver and move the RPMs up to 7000, install a crazy clutch (like one with sintered pads or a "star" shaped disk wth 4 or 6 pads - those are the worst) and put drag radials on it or slicks, now the power rating goes down dramatically, say to around 400 - or even less, just like it would from Ford of GM if they were rating it.

Contrary to popular belief, torque does not break transmissions (unless it's triple the rating, of course), horsepower doesn't even break them. IMPACT is what breaks them. That's why you can put 700 hp to a T5 in a car with a low RPM engine and another car will break it at 400 with a higher RPM engine, all other things being equal. In engineer's terms, this can be simplified into the equation Force = (Inertia) x (RPM) SQUARED. What this is saying is that at 7000 RPM you have 36% more force on the trans (driveline in general) that you do at 6000 RPM. Now, couple this with the fact that to handle the increased force, you need an even "heavier" clutch, thus multiplying the forces even beyond the additional 36%. This is a very simplistic breakdown but it is totally accurate and I think very easy to understand. And just so you know, I've used this same expaination in a report to a very well known Cup team a few years ago and their engineers did not dispute it. So if you don't believe me, believe them. We rate these kits assuming a slightly heavier clutch will be used with them but this is only an estimate, like everything else in the performance industry. I won't even get into the installation snafu's we've seen over the years. Just because it's installed doesn't mean it's right. Anything from junk throwout bearings, wrong thickness clutch disks, firewall flex, pedal flex, too much carpet under the pedal, modifed (wrong) clutch pedals, incorrect bellhousing alignment, tried a 3rd gear burnout with no water, etc. We've seen almost everything. Although, every time I think I've seen everything, someone figures out another way to ruin a trans and blame us for it, then compain when we won't give them free parts to fix it - and then post it online so everyone knows.

We've caught people in lies dead-to-rights when explaining what happened and what they did with the trans before it broke. I was at a racetrack on Saturday one time on the starting line and stood 5 feet from a guy running his trans (a pro stock truck at the time) and after he left in 3rd gear for the THIRD TIME, and admitted to his crew he did it, he called up Monday and MF'ed us because he broke his trans after like 10 passes and I wouldn't give him free parts. I told him why it broke third gear and he totally denied he ever did it, and I've seen things like this over and over before, everyone in this business has. Another time, a guy downshifted into first gear (a T5 dog ring kit) at like 70 mph while going for 3rd and broke 1st gear. I told him what he did and he got all hyper and stuff and denied it. I told him I've looked at a thousand transmissions and I can tell exactly what he did by the way the parts were (teeth folded over on the downshift side of 1st gear). The guy that was riding with him at the time he did it even called to tell me what happened after the guy went nuts on us. He got online and called me a d&%@head and all this stuff because I wouln't fix his trans for free. Before he got all carried away I even offered the parts at half price (well over my cost, by the way) even though I knew he screwed up, bad. He didn't like my answer and then he got online and tried to hose me. He even threated to "mess up" one of my guys at the track if he ever saw them. I laughed. All I could say to that is that he had better bring lots of help. Anyway, there are tons more but I won't waste your time.

This is why virtually NO ONE in this business warranties anything, whether it be transmissions, other driveline parts, rods, pistons, cranks, complete engines, tires, or anything else, even body kits. Try calling Tremec and telling them you just broke your trans in your modifed Camaro or Mustang and see what they do for you. Call Jerico or Liberty and tell them you just broke your trans after 300 miles and see what they say. Unless you can prove beyond a shadow of ANY doubt, and I mean ANY doubt, they won't do much or anything for you, and I can't blame them. Was it 300 road race miles, 300 highway miles, 300 miles with 30 2nd or 3rd gear burnouts mixed in the middle, etc. You can see what I mean. I'm not saying that all customers are lying or trying to deceive us or anything, but it has gotten so out of hand as far as what people are trying to get away with that everyone in this business has to be extremely careful and almost militant when it comes to any kind of warranty work. It's even gotten all the way up to the factory level. There are people out there that will say or do anything to save a buck and that's why everyone has to be so careful.

Hey, if a person puts a trans in and it breaks when they leave the driveway, we'll fix it and even pay the shipping both ways. If someone twists an input after the've had it for a while, we'll even fix that. I someone goes to the track and breaks one of our mainshafts after just putting the trans in the car, we'll fix it. Heck, we've fixed things for people even when they admitted they messed up (anyone ever seen a reverse burnout?) Also, if anyone calls or emails for customer service of any kind, please understand that we are a 60 person company that does everything they can to take care of every phone call and email that comes in. However, it may take a few days to respond or get back to you on some things. We are not "blowing you off". We get thousands of tech questions during the year and we try to answer all of them one-on-one. I personally take certain calls when Mark, Kevin, Bubba, or one of my other people can't help the customer, BUT I'm also trying to help run the same 60 person company that is making the products we sell and I'm rarely in my office. Also, please realize that we are not Jegs or Summit. We manufacture virtaully everything that we sell. Transmissions and/or kits are very time consuming and expensive to manufacture so sometimes there is some extended lead time and I apologize for that.

Well, as for the original thread from the person with the black Trans Am, all I can say is send us some digital pictures (or 35mm if you don't have a digital) of the car and also the transmission carnage and a complete list of clutch disk, pressure plate, tires, and approximate HP numbers and I will review them. After receiving this information I will personally call you and give you my recommendation and/or decision. Thanks,

Michael Long
V.P., BSME, G-Force Transmissions/Long Shifters

Cruz'N Bruz'R

^^^ This guy is on the level. Pretty decent. I'd take some pics and do what he said. Very few warranty's happen with performance parts period. this is true. They're just under alot more stress.

plndtx

Had you not written your 'book', G-force would have been scratched off of my list when I look at upgrading my trans. So, your back on the short list!

Also, maybe some of us could refer other users to this thread when they have question about your product.

Good info.

Chris

neagan

iTrader: (7)

If a company makes an item said to improve something, they had better choose to stand behind their product or not make it in the first place. Could you provide us with the phone number AND the person's name?

I would suggest that as we have time, we call the company and 'share' our disapointment in their customer relations. It wouldn't take very many calls that mention our THIRD GEN.com site before they sit up and take notice. I would bet cash, that by the 4th or 5th complaint phone call contact, that they treat this person's issue with a lot more respect and a Much Better financial response-
How many of us are willing to help another fellow Camaro enthusiast out? One phone call; 5 minutes of our time (about the time it takes the average person to type in a Thread Reply)???????

I'll do it. Nitro

Julie Bergman

I'll be calling your company Mike. Thanks!

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

might want to tell them thirdgen.org, not thirdgen.com.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

It hasn't even been confirmed what the exact failure is yet.
So before you go wasting up a company's tech. service time with garbage calls, and therefore people with legitimate problems can't be served, you might want to let the guy find out exactly what went wrong with said transmission before this escalates.

VILeninDM

Mike,

I've read a lot of things about g-force here and there (both good and bad) and when I read the original post, I was 5% this case was actually something legitimate. Like you said, how you drive even with a weak engine, matters a lot when it comes to useful life of any drivetrain component.

The only part I don't agree with what you said is quoted above. I think it is great when a VP of any performance company comes down to our level and posts in these forums and I wish more companies would take the time to do this.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

What I find wrong here is, they don't tell you this until it "BREAKS".

Besides who builds a 600 HP motor and runs it on "street tires" with a stock or mild clutch?

Xlr8torZ28

iTrader: (19)

I think it is a catch 22 situation. It is kinda like how GM got with the warranties on the LS1 cars. They tried to deny alot of warranty work saying the car was mistreated or driven "hard". They should realize what those cars are designed for (not grocery shopping) and that people ARE going to get their moneys worth. And the term PERFORMANCE PARTS should imply something about the nature of the part. Just my thoughts

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I agree with that. Just wait and see how much Mike's post will be dissected and word-smithed by the time it's done. You open yourself up to interpretation.

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

Well... I think that if you sell a product claiming its rated for 600 hp then it should withstand 600hp. If your racing transmision cant handle that power under certain conditions IE slicks, race dumps then it cant handle 600hp can it? It shouldnt claim it can handle the power if it cant..my point is who drives there 500-600hp car to pick up the kids from soccer or to get groceries? nobody. The transmission is overrated for one for two if a customer buys something for $2000 and it last 2000 miles then at least you could look into it instead of giving some crap excuses of why it isnt your fault. Im just glad that after he started this thread someone is going to do somthing about it, even tho it shouldnt have to come to this to begin with.

laiky

by there very nature aftermarket parts treatment canot be anticipated. To expect unconditional warrentee of racing parts is comical. They are put into every concievable situation, and type of abuse. If you have a basic working knowlege of these cars and their parts you already know the T5 case is junk. G-Force may make the best guts for them but you know going in they are weak. If your dropping your clutch, or shifting hard all bets are off. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a warantee. If you do break it easily or without doing something abusive i wouldn't want another free or otherwise, the unit is not for you.


By the way, the explanation of shock on the driveline is spot on. my LG4 required some decent rpm to launch and hard shifts to make time. i went through 3-4 clutches and grenaded my t5. My 383 started with the t5 went to the tko and 35,000 miles later has the original centerforce clutch. the torque means i dont drop the clutch at 5000 but i roll into it off idle. i credit that for the longevity i have gotten out of the clutch.

700hproush

Thank you to those of you out there who understand my point(s) about the different types of abuse. This rating we put on our T5 (or any of our products) is just an approximation. People ask us for "ratings" all the time - numerous times a day - and I'll be the first to tell them straight out - ratings are a joke. My people don't say it so abruptly because customers think we're being rude to them, but they typically ask a few questions pertaining to the car when giving an approximate rating. We only rate them because everybody wants numbers. If we don't rate them, people think because they spend more money for aftermarket parts they can get stupid behind the wheel and then say "you told me it would take "X" amount of power and it broke!". We've had these same kits running 9.50's for over a hundred runs in 2900 lb. Mustangs without a problem.

It's entirely in the setup and the driver. Also, how long should it last with a given "rating". A hundred miles?, a thousand miles? 10,000 miles? How about forever? You can put 900 hp to a T5 behind a 5500 RPM nitrous ZZ572 in a 3000 lb. car on drag radials and it will last 10 runs (it's been done). Do we rate them at 900 hp? Of course not. The same trans can be broken by an 11,000 RPM Mazda rotary with 300 hp on slicks in 10 passes (again, it's been done). Do we rate them at less than 300 hp? Of course not because this is not indicative of what the "average" enthusiast will put it through. This type of abuse will break the strongest T56 or TKO, regardless of the rating. The "average" T5 owning enthusiast drives a 3500 lb. car with big street tires most of the time and OCCASIONALLY runs radials or small slicks. His or her engine turns about (realistically) 6000 RPM and they have a moderate clutch upgrade and they have modified stock suspension. They take them to the track on weekends and drive them to work the rest of the week. This is your "average" T5 owner. I know because my people and I have talked to hundreds of them on the phone. This is where we come up with the UP TO 600 CRANK (NOT wheel) hp "approximate rating". We have hundreds of happy customers that fit this description. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, for any part - even from the factory - ratings are just numbers derived for the average driving experience.

For instance,
I have Manley forged rods and JE pistons in my 4.6 (2V) and the engine has over 28,000 miles on it at 20 psi. with 700 crank HP on pump gas. By the way, I drove it to Key West last year (from PA) to give you an idea of what a "real" street car is. It sees over 10,000 miles annually, and it had a T5 in it for about 12,000 miles. I only took it out because I needed to mileage test one of our T56 kits. Anyway, my point is that the rods and pistons are "rated" to 800 hp. Now, lets say I don't have a blower on it and I rev it to 10,000 RPM to make the power instead of 7000 RPM. OK, now how long will these parts stay together? Or, lets say I know nothing about forced induction, BSFC, compression ratio, injector duty cycle, fuel pressure, intercooling, octane, ignition timing, or cylinder pressure and I run 13.5:1 AFR with 20 PSI on pump gas. BOOM! I can throw the rods out of the block at 400 hp. Now, who's fault is it? They said they would hold 800 hp, right? My point is that Manley, like every other company, rates there 4.6 rods for the "average" person, meaning for those particular rods, 7000 RPM with a blower and a good tune. I can't call them and say "Hey, your rods are junk because they broke with less than 800 hp". Even now, addmittedly I'm pushing the envelope at 20 psi on 92 octane but the tune is PERFECT. That's how I can get away with it. It doesn't matter if the rods are rated to 1500 hp, if you treat them badly they WILL break. If they do break because of misuse, obviously there's more to the story at that point. Contrary to what most believe, Manley would not be liable when someone goes to the dyno and hangs the rods out. The same is true with transmissions. Don't be mistaken, we DO warranty some things and each case is treated individually. Please understand this. If we made a mistake or find the parts to be "defective" for whatever reason (which, by the way, I have yet to ever see as a cause of breakage), we will fix it.

Also, on a side note, one tip for all of you out there who call any company for a potential warranty fix - DO NOT automatically assume the parts are defective. Whether it's our company or any other, the last thing the guy at the top wants to here is "defective parts", or better yet "bad heat treat". This is not because they don't want to hear about a potential problem, on the contrary, it's because they don't want to be told their parts are wrong by someone who has absolutley no engineering or scientific proof. If you're going to tell them they're wrong or thier company messed up, at least get real data. Don't just "assume" because they will not take you seriously. Ask a local shop to call for you and give a possible expaination and/or description of what may have happened. They don't have to engineers or factory technicians, just someone with a good overall understanding of the particular situation you are dealing with (i.e. don't have your buddy at Goodyear call and explain why he thinks your trans broke) Why is it that as soon as something goes wrong, everybody turns into a metallurgist or heat treat expert? Well, believe it or not, I do know metallurgy and heat treating, and if I don't know the answer, I pick up the phone and call some of the best people in the country to find the answers. Trust me, the parts are first piece inspected, in-process inspected, and final piece inspected. We buy MIL spec. material that is heat treated by a MIL spec. heat treater. The odds of anyone getting parts with "bad heat treat" or "bad material" are about as likely as getting bad heat treat on an Apache helicoptor part. I know because we do parts for those as well. They are right - believe me. If something breaks, that's not the reason. We've done hundreds of thousands of military and aerospace parts over the past 25 years and I can honestly say, with certainty, we've never had a part rejected for "bad material" or "bad heat treat". Not to say it's impossible, but it's HIGHLY unlikey. Remember, this is just a tip for when you call up and ask for a possible warranty fix, whether it be our company or any other.

Well, again, I think the vast majority of people reading this understand my point and whether or not you agree with me on this, we do the best any company can realistically do in terms of warranty fixes. Thanks

Julie Bergman

Mike, I have an appreciation for your point as I have been road racing for the last six years. That is long enough to know what "abuse" is, i.e., what is driver and what is set-up. I think your trans and me will get along fine with my new 383 for my Formula street car...especially since I like right and left hand turns and not sticky burnouts!

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Mike – Good explanation! But I’m afraid it’ll be beaten and “word smithed” to a point where what you’ve said will be taken out of context – but hopefully not. You may not remember me by my screen name here, but we’ve spoken on the phone once or twice and passed a couple of emails. I was one of the first people that purchased one of your trannys on this board, and so far I’ve been happy with it.

But of course, ever since I got it, I’ve been told it will self-destruct due to the “weak case” syndrome, along with being told I should have bought a Tremec or T-56…BTW, sorry about commenting on Bubba not returning my calls, but I’m being honest. But I realize you’re not “Jegs”.

Well, 400 HP and 490 TQ hasn’t twisted it yet. But then again, I’ve never attempted a 4K launch on slicks, or downshifting from 5th to 1st at 60 mph either!

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Say what ever you want Mike, but I can assure you this situation has brought to light things we didn't know about the product and will definately cost you sales in the future.
The situation I encountered was a car making 400HP at the flywheel and it shredded third gear like popcorn on the street with street tires.
The car never broke third gear before with the stock gears and we know how weak third is in a stock T-5.
Sorry to be devil's advocate here, but facts are facts.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

After reading all this here are my thoughts. To paraphrase, our gears are rated at 600 HP but you have to run street tires and the stock clutch or a mild upgrade. If not it is only rated at 400HP. Like Don posted who in the heck does that? Especially at the track!!!

I don't see any further clarification in the 2nd post. IMHO Mike you would have been better off not saying a thing.

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

Did the original poster ever follow up on his offers? Just curious because mike offered to investigate it and if he had no doubt it wasnt his fault he should be following up on it.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Don, I always listen to what you say because I know you're a VERY knowledgible guy. But I know that G Force DID tell me they could not give me a warranty for their trans. - before I bought it - but they also mentioned that they would work with me if anything happened. It's the SAME THING Tremec and others said to me too when I was inquiring.

Trust me, I hope alot more than most others here that this gets resolved somehow (since I have one of their trannys myself)....I'd like to think that when I finally do run this thing at the track, and if the trans breaks for some reason, I won't be told "too bad"...

That's assuming I didn't try to do a 4K launch with stickies, or downshifting to 1st at 70 mph...I wouldn't even try to make a claim for that myself because I'd know what caused it...

nicksL98

iTrader: (6)

Tremec guys - this is slightly off topic but I have a qualm about a tremec 3550. I do not remeber if it was Dark Horse or Forte's that we got it from. My brother installed it in his 57 Chevy 2dr hardtop, 3420 curb weight, 327 with 358hp/379tq (engine dyno) hays street/strip diaphram. clutch and a 4.10 geared 9". First attempt at the track on drag radials with no burn out ( jsut a slight dump to clean the tires off) he broke the mainshaft coming out at 3000rpm. The Tremec USA rep and either of the retailers we talked to said "thats never happened before...etc...we wont warranty it." Which left him with buying a TKO mainshaft, having the tailhousing bored out/ installing the new bushing, and buying a new slip yoke, to the tune of around $450 if I remember correctly.

So whats the deal? Could you guys help me with the true cause of the failure? Is there any way to recoupe our costs since its been about a year or so since it happened?

85SILVERBULLET

a little off topic. start a new post.

TKOPerformance

You have up to 7 years before the statute of limitations runs out for you to take legal action if you want. Of course that would mean highering a metallurgist to see if the mainshaft was deffective, and a lawyer to bring suite against the retailer, and or Tremec. Both are large corporate entities who probably have high powered lawyers on retainer anyway, so your odds of winning are going to be slim.

The truth is that aftermarket companies typically do not warrant their parts, unless it's for something like rust on a stainless steel exhaust system. They know how the parts will be used, and can't say for certain that the parts will hold up under racing in every situation because there are just too many varriables. If they offered a warranty they would probably go out of business taking care of the claims. Unless there's a clear defect in materials you are typically going to have to eat the repairs in these situations. It's just another part of the old hot rodder's addage: Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

Xlr8torZ28

iTrader: (19)

It all goes back to "Buyer beware!!"... All you can do is spend your money hoping you wont get screwed, and if you do get screwed then suck it up and consider it a lesson learned. The only thing you can do is TELL EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU KNOW, NOT TO DO BUSINESS WITH COMPANY "A"...

Shagwell

my T5 experiences....(car runs 11.7's, consistent 1.6X 60fts, side stepping clutch around 5k, no lift/no clutch between gears, all specs in signature)
- Stock WC T5 out of a 96 V6 bird. - About 4k hard miles. 3rd gear went BOOM! Not during a shift, under power at about 5200. - Had a little hottie in the car, driving normal she was like "wow, this things is fast..." I round a corner, plant down...grab 2nd...3rd...BOOM(oh yeah, she was impressed...) Case blew completely in two, mainshaft now kustom 2-piece model, cluster shattered, 3 gear MIA. Dropped the trans out by simply pulling the drive shaft and crossmember. - No complaints here, it was obviously expected.
- Stock WC T5 out of vette. - About 5k hard miles. 3rd gear went CRACK! Not during shift, under power at about 5800. Case took it. Teeth from cluster gone, 3rd off mainshaft(scored mainshaft) in about 40 pieces in bottom of case.(Atleast I was a good 3 cars out on that Lightning...) Again, not unexpected, and I still have pieces in a big IBuprofen bottle on the coffe table.
- WC T5 with G-force mainshaft. About 8k very hard miles(more track time). 3rd gear, under power around 5600.(seeing a pattern yet?) Mainshaft slightly scored, still runable. Gear gone, cluster - kustom 3 piece.
All in all, I was impressed at how much abuse they took. I knew I needed better, but I had all of $0 dollars in the three, so oh well. My car is a hefty 4001lbs w/o me in it. If it wasn't for the planned 4.10 or 4.56 gears, I would probably go with a G-force built T5 once she's done(and down to around 3000lbs)

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Might I ask where you found a vette with a t-5 cause I'm pretty sure they never made that

fb305svs

Here's my opinion...

g-force - good people IMO for coming on here, making a post that would certainly be scrutinised to hell. There parts and transmissions? Obviously better than stock, but you can't make gold out of ****... Their transmissions obviously last longer, but if your running the car that hard, no t-5 transmission is going to be good enough for you...

Personal experiances- broke a standard t-5 with my old 305... 2-3 shift, blew the 3rd gear cluster to pieces. Broke my WC t-5, blew the teeth off the input shaft and counter gear. On the rebuild some better parts were put in, non g-force stuff) trans lasted behind 460hp 350 for 15k, plenty of track time... finally broke two weeks after getting the car to hook at the track for 3 passes, all in the 1.60 range. drove it home from the track, 2 weeks later it blew the 3rd gear cluster apart, ripped 3 of the four mounting ears off the trans, broke the driveshaft.

Fact of the matter is, if your going to be abusing the **** out of the thing, a small compact 5speed is the wrong transmission for your car. I've seen a few gforce t-5s last behind motors like mine + nitrous, and they have over 50 passes on em... Take it for what you will, but if your breaking t-5's like that, it's time to go to a diff trans.

Shagwell

...its been a while. It may have been a mustang version with a GM 26 spline input, I just remember running the numbers and finding it to be one of the highest factory power-rated T5's.

I do fully agree, though, that if you're gonna lay down big power numbers and hook the car hard, you need more than a T5 has to offer. Plain and simple.

TKOPerformance

Mustang and Camaro T5s have different cases. The mounting pattern to the bellhousing is totally different. You can't just put a GM input shaft into a Mustang T5 and get a Camaro T5. The mainshafts are different too. A lot of internal parts do interchange like gears, bearings, etc. Strength wise a WC T5 is a WC T5. They are rated to 300 lbs/ft. stock. Ford Motorsports released a Z-spec T5 that used super alloy gears and they rated it to 350 lbs/ft. You can buy the gears seperately and they will fit any WC T5, but with a GM ttrans you have to run a stock input shaft. At this power level breaking an input shaft shouldn't be an issue though, provided the pilot bearing and rear bearing retainer are in good shape.

Shagwell

- bolt pattern didn't matter to me as my trans stands up square, mechanical clutch set-up and regular(non-3rd gen) mcleod bellhousing. I just remember switching the tailhousing to the gm type unit and checking the tooth count/ pitch to put the right 26 spline input in. Like I said, it's been a while, it was simply a higher rated trans. I've seen WC units from 230-300 ftlbs.

TKOPerformance

When you get into aftermarket bellhousings you can do just about anything. The new modular McLeod will allow you to marry different transmissions and engines from different manufacturers, even realy oddball combinations like Ford FE motors and GM T56s. You just need the right adapter ring and/or plate.

Inherently, the Ford WC T5 is no stronger than the GM WC T5. The gear ratios are the same, except for 5th, which GM and Ford tailored to suite the intended motor and rear ratios in their respective cars. The first year of the WC T5 it was still rated at the nonWC 250 lbs/ft. rating, but it was upgraded in the following years, with no actual internal changes other than double molly 2nd and 3rd speed gears, to 300 lbs/ft.

Guest

Well that isnt true. Fords had 3.35 1st gear as opposed to the 2.95 in the GM, not to mention the others were different as well. 4th was the same, the only one that was the same. There were also different WC T-5's in the Fords, they changed things here and there. The last iteration I have in my 66, has a hardened steel front bearing retainer with aluminum flange and they changed the input shaft bearing design that was supposed to make it stronger but I kinda doubt that.

TKOPerformance

Well, you're sort of right. The common WC gear ratios are 2.95:1, 1.98:1, 1.34:1, 1:1, and then a 5th gear of 0.63:1, 0.68:1, 0.73:1, or 0.80:1 depending on application. Fords do get a little funny because some did have different 1st gear ratios as mentioned, largely because the 302 made less torque and was typically combined with a 2.73:1 final drive on a stick car, though 3.08s and 3.27s were optional. Part of this is also because the T5 was designed for use in the Ford Mustang, because it was an evolution of the SROD 4 speed. Fords started using WC T5s in 1986, whereas Chevy didn't get with the program until mid-late 1988. This meant that there were several variants of the Ford T5, whereas all Chevy WC T5s were basically the same (at least the V8 WC boxes).

As long as the gearset is matched then you can run GM gears in a Ford case and vice versa. The super alloy set will work in either case, but requires the correct input shaft. The G-Force gears are also made in the above-noted ratios (common WC). Though G-Force does offer some non-stock 5th ratios like a 0.5:1.

Fords always ran the aluminum rear retainer, which is a mistake. They started offering V6 cars with steel retainers, so for years we used to get V6 ones and cut them down on a lathe, because they were too long for a V8. I think finally they started using steel on V8 cars, but not until the SN95 body style. The input shaft bearing is the same for all WC Ford T5s too. I think you are talking about the pocket bearing, which is on the end of the mainshaft. All WC T5s use individual rollers for the pcoket bearing, except Cobra spec boxes. You can convert a non-Cobra mainshaft to accept a Cobra style pocket bearing, and there may be some gains in strength here, but exactly how much has yet to be determined.

Guest

Ok, pocket bearing but yes thats what I was referring to.

As for ratios, all Ford 302's used 3.35 1st gear, 1.93 or 1.99 2nd, 1.29 or 1.33 3rd, 1.00 4th, and 0.68 OD. The 3rdgen WC T-5's were 2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, 0.63 or 0.73 so... only 4th is the same as it has to be. On the later V6's Ford did use a 0.73 OD but thats the only other similarity. Also, Ford introduced the WC T-5 in 1985, not 1986. You're right though, you can swap GM-Ford gears or vice-versa as long as you take them all.

Thats about it, way off subject.

TKOPerformance

Yes, definately way off topic, but I did a little poking around and I think I was confused because the Z-spec T5 from Ford Motorsports, now FRPP, has the 2.95 first and other ratios. In truth it's been so long since I touched a Ford T5 that I can't reliably remember. All the fast guys have gone to a Tremec by now, and the stock or near stock guys got a good shifter and learned to take it easier on the car.

It's funny, but the higher 1st gear ratio seems to have made Borg/Warner rate the trans at a lower torque capacity, but I've almost never seen a T5 break 1st gear. Typically 2nd and 3rd are the ones that go bye, bye. They also usually take the countergear with them, which makes for an expensive repair.

niceroc

iTrader: (2)

well in my option gforce should not really have to replace the parts because that is the nature of the beast with performance parts but they should not have made claims that it will 600hp and all that.. hell my stock t-5 will hold 1000000 hp with the stock replacement clutch it has now... fresh clutch but it slips under the power of that big ol' 305.... if they claim 600hp for the sake of their company make sure it can handle 600hp with what a reasonable setup would be(ie drag radials, good clutch, etc)... IMHO