luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

So I bought some Spohn Tubular Non Adjustable A Arms....
Put them in, and then my tires rubbed in the back when turning... not a problem before when I had the stock A arms in...

Posted about it, and told by some it had been discussed many times before (I never heard about it) and told by others they currently had the same problem... and told by some I was full of BS....

Anyway... Emailed them a few times... chatted on Ebay and was told to send photos to their email to review... I did... They never got a hold of me... They never proceeded to contact me after many attempts to contact them...

Some users with their K member's posted some problems.... the person that ended up buying my Spohn A arms bought them because after installing his Spohn K member and stock a arms, he had the exact opposite problem I had... his wheel were moved forward in the wheel well...

Full info here...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...now-tires.html

Anyway.... Posting this so that fellow members of this board can stop getting screwed for hundreds of dollars or more while Spohn silently take our hard earned cash and do nothing in return....

Rafael

Project 3.4 Camaro

I may be wrong, but I believe the K-member and A-arms are supposed to go hand in hand, and that then there shouldn't be problems, or at least I think I recall reading as much, but its been a while, so I'm not sure if thats true or not.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

You may have read that here... but it is not stated anywhere on his site, or those 2 specific products (A Arms and K Member).... And it should be to keep people from wasting $$$...

Rafael

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I think it's kinda hit or miss. Some people say stock arms and spohn k member work great, while others after it's installed the wheels are ~2" too far towards the doors sometimes even rub. I've read several theories about maybe it being an early design k member, but no one has really ever nailed it down. It seeems to be around 75% of the people that have tried the spohn k member normally say it's not worth the effort with all the install hassles.

BMR comes out directly and states you can only use there K member with their arms.

That being said I have a new Spohn Spring Perch K Member that's ready to install but it's posts like this I just don't even want to open that can of worms.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

If you have their a-arms as well you will not have any problems.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

No I planned on using the stock a arms.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Seen many posts on this. And I think it is unfortunate they havnt at least said on thier site that you will have problems without using thier K-member and Arm's together. Although every product I have ever used from spohn has worked flawlessly.

vjgillespie

I'm the guy who bought your control arms. I finally got them installed and now my wheels are to far back. Car isnt running yet so I'm not sure how much of a problem its going to be but it moved them quite a bit. Spohn ls1 swap k member with spohn control arms.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

who's? not mine...

vjgillespie

Haha, no I bought them from luvofjah (the one who started the original post).

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Oh I forgot he said he sold them to someone

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I have Spohn subframe connectors and steering kit... No problems there... but I never saw a thing on this board about Spohn A arms until after I discovered my problem... If they're not gonna address it on the Spohn site, save some members here some grief and make it a sticky or something... I wasted so much $$$ buying them at full price, selling them for less than half, paying to get the stock ones removed, Spohn installed, alignment, then paid to have them removed, stock reinstalled and another alignment... Easily over $500 wasted... If only I had known before hand...

Rafael

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Aren't these the same people who poorly advertise a wonder bar and don't fix it no matter how many people correct them?

The more I hear about Spohn, the more I'm tempted to give money to BMR.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Don't get my wrong Spohn makes some awesome products. I'm running their rectangle SFCs, 1st generation rod end Torque Arm, Poly Adj. LCAs, and reallocation brackets.

It would just be nice to know why people are having issues with k member and stock arms and others don't have any issue. I'd rather not have it all torn apart then worry about coming up with $450+ (would get the bumpstop too) for new arms when I find it won't go back together correctly.

That being said my BMR wonderbar didn't exactly fit either. I had to use the die grinder to make 2 holes larger just to get the sway bar bushing bolt through it.

Al Weyman

Not too sure about their torque arm to be honest, I think its causing some of my handling problems, I think great for drag racing but maybe not for road racing, I hope I am proved wrong but it feels like its jacking up the car as I accelerate out of righthand bends.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

That sounds like the limitation of a panhard setup. Not an issue with the parts themselves.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

^what he said, but from your other post, you may have other issues.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I do think SPOHN needs to update thier site better. Or at least put a reviewers section on each part page.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

I don't know if the problem is in the a-arms or the k-member. I read somewhere that someone bought the adjustable a-arms and was able to remedy the situation. But i bought my k-member and a-arms together and installed them and ran in to this problem. I still have my receipt from ordering it. It's been 2 years, the car still hasn't seen the road because i can't afford to replace the parts and i no longer have the originals. If it helps mine was bought April of 09' Maybe we can determine where the issue was magically fixed. My buddy has the same problem and we ordered his is March of 08'.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

I don't have access to mine right now. But does anyone have an original a arm and a spohn a arm that has the problem that can compare them side to side maybe pull measurements from center and such? vjgillespie since you just bought it is there any way you can? This would determine if it is the kmember or the a arms themselves

vjgillespie

I already pitched my stock a arms, but I can tell in my situation its the a arms. my car was fine before then i pulled the motor and tranny and installed the spohn lsx swap k member with my stock control arms. I thought the wheels were sitting a little towards the front but I wasn't thinking about the fact the car didn't have an engine in it. As soon as I installed the spohn arms (still with no engine ) the tires were very close to rear of front fender. Still are after engine installed. If it helps I just ordered the k member in jan or feb of this year. I ordered the k member with mounts, 4l60e tranny crossmember and a wonder bar at same time. No major issues with anything else. I can try to post pic tomorrow of the wheel clearance issue.

Al Weyman

Tell me more I am interested in this theory? (sorry to post off topic).

Birdstheword

Bmr kmember moves engine forward an inch or two ...

Project 3.4 Camaro

Well thats an undesirable feature if ever there were one...our cars have enough of a front weight bias as it is, lol.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Do a search here for the Fays2 Watts link.
http://www.fays2.net/

91TPI5.7

My experience with Spohn is limited, but good. I got their SFCs for my car, since it has the dual cats. However, I had been buying from BMR way before Spohn became popular. It was not a quality issue.

jakemussman

iTrader: (3)

They arent going to put a review section up or this would be there instead. Not good for business.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Exactly...
I'm not sure if they are still a sponsor here... but a sticky about known problems with specific products would be great for our members... the people this board was founded for... not the companies that sell products with undocumented features that basically causes US thirdgen users to throw $$$ away...

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

They are still a sponsor. If you have a fitment issue I'd recommend calling them directly as there website on the K Member clearly says fits stock a arms.

As for this post it has made me buy their a arms also to match my k member.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

If we had a sticky for every part that didn't fit right....

Do me a favor. Measure from the center of each bushing to the center of the ball joint. I'll measure mine as well (Spohn del-sphere a-arms with no fitment issues) and we'll compare.

Constantly repeating there is an issue without trying to figure out what the real issues is, isn't going to get you anywhere. Unfortunately this is a DIY hobby and the manufacturers respond better if YOU have a good idea of what they are doing wrong.

Spohn has been the biggest innovator in parts for our cars. They make excellent products that are copied by all the other companies. Obviously they have an issue here. If we figure out what the issue is and present it to them in an unemotional manner, I am sure they are willing to listen. The key is to remain rational.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I've contacted them several times... no contact back...

Tell my wallet to be rational, after spending $500 on A arms, $100+ to change out, $90 for an alignment... then having to just put the modified stock ones back on, $100+ install, another $90 alignment....

You not only have to measure distance from point to point, but angles too...
My car sits higher with the stock a arms than it did with the spohn...
But the wheels do not rub with the stock a arms as they did with the spohn...
New Moog springs installed, still no rub with stock, rub with spohn...

Rafael

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

No, its a triangle with 2 fixed points where they attach to the k-member. You only need the two measurements. Simple geometry.

If you are so worked up about it, why don't you just take the measurements? It sounds like you are willing to take the time to complain all over the internet but are not willing to take 30 seconds to take 4 measurements???

Whether you like it or not, no company is going to pay attention to you unless you are rational and unemotional.

Look, I have always had excellent communication with Spohn. If you help me help you, I'll contact them. I am not willing to do it unless we have solid information.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

If you would of actually read the previous posts / links, you would of read that I no longer have the A arms...

The 2 points where it mounts are standard... but the 3rd, where the ball joint is can move in all 3 dimensions... thus affecting height and where in the wheel well the wheel sits...

I have been rational and non emotional to a point... I wasted a lot of $$$... contacting them has done no good.. I'm trying to contact my fellow thirdgen members... thus the message.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Ok. I still think it would be a better service to the community if we found the actual problem. Why don't you contact the buyer and point them to this thread? Hopefully they can take the measurements.

The a-arms both stock and Spohn should be very flat. The ball joint position should not vary in the z direction. If you are seeing a height difference between the two, it is more likely from the spring perch location than the ball joint location.

See they are flat.

vjgillespie

I'm the one who purchased his control arms, have no problem taking measurements will post them tomorrow evening. I thought they would work on my car since I just installed a spohn k member but now my wheels sit very close to the rear of my front fender. My car isn't going to be running for probably another month so I can't really tell how much of a problem it will cause but its most likely going to effect my wheel selection.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Excellent. That will help us all learn. I hope to get my measurements tomorrow.

Dark Ember

I have to disagree at least in part here. Although it would be good to better understand just what went wrong, that would only be for personal enrichment. The author gave Spohn $500 so he wouldnt have to know what dimensions are needed for this to fit. It isn't his job to find out why their component wasnt a direct bolt in, its Spohn's. The author found that once bolting in said component and getting an alignment as he should have, it wasnt a direct replacement afterall. Moving the tires 1-2" in any direction is what I would call a faulty part. A non adjustable control arm is just that, non adjustable. It should have the ball joints, the sway bar end link holes, everything, should be in the same location, just tubular, lighter, and preferrably, stiffer. You can adjust a vehicles alignment, but only so far. Restoring correct camber/caster from a 2" moved tire may not even be possible.

The fact that Spohn has done little to help resolve the issue should make us all wary of Spohn. However I have noticed a trend on this site. Whenever someone has a bad experience with a company, everyone who ever had a good experience with the company feels the need to defend it. Instead maybe we should all be glad we didint get screwed like this guy? I know some people here have had good luck with Spohn SFC, but.. thats just a silly bar. Pretty straight foward, and a semi experienced welder could make one. Things like a control arm are where quality after market companies are tempered, because its not forgiving part if your dimensions are off.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

does UMI make good control arms ?

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Every company has issues from time to time. My Hurst Roll Control solenoid was dead out of the box. I didn't find that out until it was installed. My Milodon stroker oil pan had a loose metal screw under the windage tray. My AFR 210 heads had a coolant passage that didn't get cut all the way and knocked a disk off into the passage. My ARP stud kit actually had one nut that didn't have threads cut at all. The list goes on and on.

I agree it sucks that Spohn hasn't addressed this yet, which like I stated was one of my reasons I haven't installed my Spohn K Member yet. I didn't want to get stuck without tires on the front of the car. My arms should also come today. I'll measure mine and we can compare to his measurements. That might give us an idea if the spohn arms are just off or if there was an actual problem with the jig they use when compared to the stock arm measurements.

If we could take pics of the tape measure actually on the arms that would probably be good. People like to see measurements for themselves.

vjgillespie

Trying to get some decent measurements but I'm not real sure where to measure??? The spohn arms are installed and not much room for an accurate measurement.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Unfortunatley we are stuck with the companies we have. And with how cheap this community is, I feel lucky that people are still making parts for our cars. Spohn is one of the few companies that have innovated and continued to release new parts for our cars. So I tend to cut them a little extra slack, right or wrong. Again, I have never had a problem getting them to help. But when I contact them i give them as much info as possible, trust me it helps. I'm sure if we give them dimensions of these a-arms, they can tell us if they were built correctly or not. Its really not that hard, and its not for personal enrichment. I'm trying to help for the sake of the third gen community, not myself. My spohn del-sphere a-arms fit perfectly.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

NO!!! The umi ones does not have spring index points or steering stops.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Measure from the center of each bushing to the center of the balljoint.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

since these arms work on some cars and not on others. It makes me think it may be more of an issue with slop in the jig, not necessarily a completely wrong part. Could also be the same with the k-member. it would explain why some people dont have this issue and others do.

a center to center measurement across the mounting ears on the k-member would be good to have too. I have a stock k sitting in the driveway i could get measurement to compair with. I dont have any stock a-arms handy though.

somebody also mentioned the sway bar tab was moved too? something else to measure while we are at it.

Also, i know this was discussed before, but why do the a-arms on Spohns site no longer have steering stops? i know they didnt have them in the past, then the pictures changed anh the stops appeared, now they are gone again and somebody posted a picture of their new spohn arms recently with the clamp on style collar stop. why the constant changes




on another note, it would be nice if companies offered adjustable steering stops on these parts for those people who use a wheel wider than 8" and non factory specs.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

iwill take that as there are worse than spohn

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i disagree with the choice of the word "worse", since they both apparently have deficiency's, but i'll leave it at that.

vjgillespie

I tried all that I could to measure these arms. I don't see any to get an ACCURATE measurement with them on the car. The spring, spring perch, k member braces and spindle are all in the way. I wish i could be a little more helpful but its not going to do any good to get a close measurement. I plan on calling spohn on monday to talk more about the arms and the problem with them setting the tires back. If they are interested and willing to ship it back I will remove one and ship it to them, maybe they can measure it or put back in the jig and see if something is off.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

The ones I bought off the classifieds have built in stops (welded tab bumps). They arrived today.

I measured mine quickly from the top of the ball joint bolt to the center bushing. I had about 15.5" and 16". I checked both arms and the 15.5" side the one next the end link bracket on each.

GTA50

Now I don't pretend to be an expert by any means, but, sounds to me like the problem is trying to buy components when it is the full system you need. I think if you bought the subframe and then the a-arms there would be no problem.

So, the subframe should probably be bought first and the a-arms after.

Just my two cents.

92RS_T-Top

Comeing from a guy who WORKS at a fab shop, i can tell you jigs do fall out of wack A LOT.. most are adjustable and after time the jig will need rebuilt, thus giveing you a few bad parts if the quality control sucks.

I have not bought any Spohn parts yet and dont plan on buying any for quite some time (as im just now starting tare down on my newist camaro build)

I'm shure if you call the company, ask for a service rep, or a quality control personnel, and talk to them like a sensable adult.. DO NOT RAISE YOUR VOICE, do not call them names, and listen.. even if you have to repeat yourself 20 times dont show any anger as they will just screw you over (known for a fact as my step-bro is a quality control personnel)

When building custom parts in bulk and in a factory parts will get messed up.. ON A DAILY BASIS.. also they may have more then one person building said part.. a lot of companys train in house on there welders so maybe a newbie got in there and screwed up your parts but thought it was right.

Ranting and raveing wont get you anywhere in life.. keep it simple keep your head on and you can get anything fixed.

My own experience with a bad company has tought me that. I build rc race trucks.. had a traxxas emaxx (big 4x4 rc truck) had it decked out with Integy aluminum parts.. I had a cat try to kill itself on the front of my truck, destroyed $600 worth of aluminum parts... cat walked away without a scratch.. contacted integy and they said tuff **** dew to my attitude.. called back 2 days later talked to them sensible provided photos, and photos of said cat and his damage... and they sent me a $800 gift certificate for all the parts to fix my truck EVEN THO it was my fault for hitting the cat there parts shoulda held up...

Why'd i tell that story, to prove a point...... Words will make or brake you.. keep it simple to the point and keep your head strait and you'll go far with lots of companies THAT CARE... (some say Tuff crap, like netflix but thats a different story contact me if u wanna hear about how netflix stole $700 from me)