25thannivZ28

******EDIT******

To all, I received a call from Al today. He and I had worked things out based on my complaints to them. Skip had offered a resolution package in understanding of my complaints and hoping that he would not lose me as a customer.

On top of that, Al had gone even further. I'm not going into detail on what the resolution is but just know that he had really stepped up, showing that he cares about the problem his paying customer was having.

I will not hesitate to do business with him as it shows he DOES care about customer service.

Thanks Al! Talk to you soon.

PAFORM350

This is great info. I contacted them once about an engine and asked them if they were aware that they had a bad rep on thirds gen. They didn't seem to care too much about it. I wound up not buying from. Happy I didn't.

LSJuan0068

A simple search could of had provided you with the info needed on the swap. Really think dropping in an engine like that will play happy with the stock parts in your camaro? Really?

I agree they could of provided more info for you and gave you a heads up on what you needed to upgrade/replace but really man, this seems like a ''Bought it without researching first'' rant and now that you found out, you go back and bash the company....

Man up, you made the mistake of thinking something like that motor will just need a simple tune... Research next time

DeltaElite121

1) you would've known this had you looked/asked about the cam specs whether you'de probably need this. This isn't really his fault. I think he can be excused on that one. Any serious HP motor generally has something like this, or runs manual steering. I personally have a vacuum booster + reserve canister because of my particular cam grind, and no - it's not a "race car".

2) this one he should've known better on. That's a big reason why you asked what you did. I agree with you here.

3) this one I also agree with considering you specifically asked about TPI compatibility.





I don't know about the time frame, but you sound like you were extremely hasty and hit the "NOW NOW NOW I PAID NOW FIX IT" button, and if that's the case.. I don't agree with that - especially considering this is negative feedback. I'm not in your position, but I have been before and generally patience pays considerably.

I'm sure one of them will come in here and tell their side of the story. I don't think Skip's crew is perfect, but I definitely don't think they're out to do people wrong either. We'll see what they say.

white gold 88

I've bought things from them before and as others I've had problems but they were my own fault. I've been to their shops in TN and they are some very nice people. I'm sure if you had problems to the point of not being able to use the engine they would have worked with you but maybe you had the wrong attitude with them. They assume you know what you are doing unless you tell them different. Replacing stock parts with aftermarket high performance parts is much different than just installing replacement stock parts. There are several threads out about the aftermarket heads not accepting the new design belt systems but they can be installed with some modifications. I'm no expert on mechanical systems on cars but I did have to chime in on this as I wouldn't call them a hack, perhaps you just ran out of patience and/or ability.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Did you honestly think an engine of that magnitude would simply just "bolt in?" That is a pretty heavily modified setup, and ANY engine swap in general is going to require lots of research, part compatibility checking, and patience. I have never heard of anyone buying a motor and thinking it would simply just "bolt in." I'm sorry to hear your bad experience, but I would hardly say this has anything to do with Skip White, and everything to do with your lack of research beforehand.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

X2. Next time ask here as others have done similar things, and would know from experience. Skip likely doesnt deal with thirdgens much if at all

25thannivZ28

Why would I have any reason to believe I would have problems when the "Premier seller of chevy performance auto parts" says it will work? I never claimed to have the credentials of an ASE Certified technician, thus knowing what needs to be researched. An engine of that magnitude? Really? Its not a Big Block dude. My 425hp 350 worked well, a small block is a small block

25thannivZ28

I worked with them since October 2012. Not a now now now, whatever you meant by that. I've been waiting over 2 months for a single response. Nothing to date. We ALL have deadlines

LHernandezJr

I believe that all businesses should be quick at addressing customer's concerns and/or problems. When they fail to do that, I want to hear about it.

I too am no expert when it comes to a lot of stuff relating to my car; therefore I have to trust what professionals tell me.

My 2 cents.

DeltaElite121

A fairly important detail you omitted beforehand I was implying that you were potentially being impatient and expecting instant satisfaction when things generally don't work that way in applied/mechanical purchases.

Provided everything you said is accurate, then yes - Skip needs to take care of you. I run a business also, so I know we all have deadlines and the customer that has paid does come first (to a point). Your prior dealings with them, however.. don't hold any weight in this situation. We're not talking about those, and we're only talking about your current issue that has happened within the past two months. Two months IS a long amount of time for the coin you dropped, though.. or realistically, it really doesn't matter how much you spent in the scheme of things since support is being requested on a purchase.

I am curious to see what they have to say on the subject.

- I gave them a call and informed them you posted a thread on here (I had some other stuff I needed to order and had some questions for them anyways).

Mikey84z

iTrader: (2)

I'm in the process of building a 421cid that I purchased from Skip White (short block). I've dealt with them over the phone both from here and Afghanistan and they always seemed helpful to me. The swap that you performed was quite extensive. And trust me, i've learned the hard way plenty of times as most of the people on here. I do agree that they should have gotten back to you a little sooner though. No one wants to play phone tag with so much $$ on the line.

And how does that 406 run???

25thannivZ28

okay....to EVERYBODY....I've gathered what seems to be some insults and also some support. So I'm not going to quote everybody's comments one at a time but in a nutshell, here we go......

PAFORM350, I'm glad to hear that you didn't buy.

LSJUAN0068, I already explained myself on "Researching prior to buying" I'm not a mechanic and I wouldn't know that the brake system would be affected by the magnitude HP the engine puts out. Or that the factory serpentine belt brackets wouldn't hook up to a motor that Skip White themselves said would be no problem with. Why would I second guess from the "Experts?" Its like when the wife tells me to put in 2-cups of laundry soap, I don't second guess, I just do it

DeltaEllite121, As I mentioned above, I had no idea the brake system would be affected. I agree, at first I didn't think ANYONE would be "Out to get me" but in my honest opinion they sank themselves too deep and now they want to hide in a hole. They got their money from me already. I just don't know what happened.

I'm glad you told them about the thread, maybe they'll respond then.? It would sure be nice for them to step in and redeem themselves. I emailed them about 10 days ago with a detailed description of my concern, stating the fact I would spread the word if I still didn't hear back from them. I gave them a chance to redeem themselves before I posted here, but they stood silent. Who knows, maybe they will respond and accommodate so I can ask the moderators to delete the thread that will show up on every GOOGLE Search from future customers.

White Gold 88, They were super awesome to me before I made the purchase, they answered my emails/phone calls within 12 hours, even on Saturday mornings. I asked them amateur questions just to get it all documented so I'd have it for future reference (now). I even told them i'd love to give them positive reviews based on the service to date (prior to purchase) then I don't know what happened after I paypal'd them the money???? Maybe they can chime in and help out??

White Devil TA, I think you KIND OF understand my frusteration, but don't really see it. Refer to my "Research" argument again from above, I didn't look past the technical support group of the manufacturer of the motor itself. Why would I look further?

Orr89RocZ, I did a little research, but mine was a different deal all together. Coming from a guy who isn't an ASE Cert Tech, I asked who I thought WAS the expert, a qualified Engine Builder/Automobile expert who would guide me in the right direction. Maybe they should have said "The Long-block isn't your best bet because the upper end wouldn't work. Perhaps you'd be interested in our Short block assembly?" *Who knows, maybe I could have afforded the 427 sbc shortblock instead. Oh well.

Motobooks Thank you

Mikey84Z I tell you, I can't WAIT until its up and running. I finally got it started up on Sunday the 31st of March. Though it needs some tuning, it sounded bad-***!!! This was after I threw away the PC Aluminum heads and put on some AFR1054's and added a Victor JR intake on it. It shook the whole car at idle. Because the diameter springs the AFR's have, I threw away the Roller Rockers that wouldn't work (that Skip gave me) and put on a nice set of Comp Cams 1.6's. WOW is all I can say right now, with the way I set it up. Tomorrow I'm getting an exhaust put on and should be buttoning it up in the next week or two. I'd love to post a Youtube Video of it soon.

For the record, he even said the "Factory cooling system would work just fine" I'm going against that idea and bought a $640 BeCool Radiator so I don't ruin a brand new motor that was partially built by Mr. White's company.

DeltaElite121

"The Long-block isn't your best bet because the upper end wouldn't work. Perhaps you'd be interested in our Short block assembly?" *Who knows, maybe I could have afforded the 427 sbc shortblock instead.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Apparently Skip is on vacation currently (according to Daniel that works there), so I'm not sure if/when he will get around to posting in the next few days.

If you don't get a response within the week, I would call them one more time as a last ditch effort before taking the high ground. Did you put this on a credit card by chance? You could probably open a dispute with them and explain your situation with pictures, written documentations, all your emails, phonecalls, etc. While I don't think the customer is always right, I also don't think the customer should EVER "eat it" because the seller failed to disclose critical information to the application stated. I can say I've done that maybe 5 times, and I've personally taken the hit just to make things right.. because let's face it - the seller's job is to be informed about the product. If they aren't sure, then they need to state they aren't sure/don't know, even if it costs them a big sale. A big sale at the cost of a big headache is NOT worth it. Honesty is what keeps customers coming back, and telling all their friends about your business.

You should keep us updated. If you do not get a response from this - particularly because I called them and asked them from another consumer standpoint about your problem, then they should be blacklisted from this site. That's just negligence at that point and nobody should deal with them, even if only a few people experience that.

Give him a chance to respond, though. He HAS been informed by more than one source, so there's officially no excuse at this point if he doesn't.. especially since Skip has a personal account on here, and has replied in the past.

25thannivZ28

I used Paypal for the transaction. I haven't officially filed yet but I got some information on the Knoxville BBB where I will file a complaint if I don't hear back. Skipwhite is currently "Unknown" at the BBB but that can soon be changed.

I also am not trying to "Take skip for a ride" I am just ticked off that I ended spending money on top of money to get to where I'm at today when I should have only spent the first initial amount that I had budgeted for. I will keep all updated. That 427 sure would have been nice Also, I will post a Youtube video of car when its done. Couple more weeks maybe

white gold 88

After reading the other thread on Whites it seems as there has been some changes for the worse there. It was about 3 or 4 years ago when I bought my heads, cam and other parts for my stroker engine.
They were very cooperative. I had read the bad reviews on the PC heads but went for them because of the cost. I had some intake issues as well but after checking out the PC website I found that the thicker intake gaskets would correct the port alignment issues. The heads worked pretty well but I did have to elongate the alignment peg holes slightly. Their roller rockers have given me no problems even though I changed them out for another set from them to try and cure a internal rattle. BTW the PC heads are identical to RHS heads, coworker has a set on his race car and you can't tell the difference. As I said before I even took a tour of his shop on one of my outings with my car. Last part I bought from them was one of their high performance dizzys which is still in my car and working fine. I hope they are just going through some changes and get things straightened out as their parts are very competitively priced. Seemed to be very nice people then.

25thannivZ28

I thought about something like that too but then I shot the idea down because I think that would geometrically raise the intake. Raising the intake then rests the Distributor higher by that fraction. I just wasn't comfortable with that option without an Experts opinion saying that doing that would work. Beside the front end accessory bolt holes still wouldn't line up.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

This is why you should ask someone other than the salesman if you are not familiar with the product. Regardless of what it is.


The salesman has one job, make a sale. Many will tell you something will work.

"Research before you buy" is very important for anything cars or otherwise.

25thannivZ28

I guess that comment is true to an extent. When Allen Powell at Skipwhite is a combination of "Tech Support" and Sales, there is a gray area.

Going back to what I emphasized before, how was I to know that the cam specs would have an impact on the brakes? From MY (non-mechanic) point of view there was no debate, I saw it as a really big f'n cam so why question it, right? Everybody has to learn by experience, unfortunately this is mine.

Bobby Goff

iTrader: (1)

am i mistaken here or didnt the salesman work for skip white?... if so then he should have known what he was selling and its application. if skip white hired someone to sell their products that didnt know what they were talking about then skip white is still responsible for the problem. How much information does a person need to have looked up on their own before they should feel assured that what they are buying fits the application they intend to use it for? sounds like skip white should have been the end-all to any possible debate as to whether it would work for WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO DO... if i want to buy a water neck for example and i find one at a parts store and they check to make sure it works for my application and it doesnt then i call them and tell then that and they will reimburse me because it was their mistake, i shouldnt have to know my exact specs of my water neck to compare it to their water neck to be sure that it will fit the intended application. sorry but i think i'm with ya on this one... and to be given the cold shoulder

1gary

Going to tell you this from a business perspective.Not that I know Skip,but what sounds like a running engine he sold you and what he should have right from jump street.He is not responsible for what you know or not.It's pretty naive on your part being involved in hot rodding not to understand there are issues with this stuff needing to be worked out. That's one part of my impression.The other part is Skip's ignoring you makes it very hard on businesses like ours to be trusted.But what your doing to Skip is far,far,worst in damages to him which might take yrs if at all to restore vs the damages you feel where incurred to you when you got exactly what you paid for.

I'm a straight up direct guy.If you didn't know what you where doing,who's the hack now??.

LHernandezJr

PMFJI but maybe, just maybe, if the business owner/owners had responded swiftly and addressed the issues directly, this thread would have never happened.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious as to what the OP is actually looking for from skip.

1gary

Buyer remorse is never the seller's fault and never a winner in court.

Skip.The same people you met on the way up are the same ones on the way down.Thing is the crowd on the way down are tons tougher.

25thannivZ28

That's why I asked him and trusted his standards set by no one other than themselves as the "Premier Seller of High Performance Chevy, Ford and Dodge engine parts"

You're not understanding, its okay. Go read what Motobooks said. Are you even reading the other posts? I never claimed to know it all, and I tried to get in touch with them to "Work things out." Are you saying that a criminal trying to get his life straight isn't welcome at Church because he doesn't know God? I don't know hot-rods like an ASE Certified mechanic but still have the desire to own one and learn. I said that earlier, again,are you reading other posts or are you just coming in the tail end and bashing the author?

That's why I asked him and trusted his standards set by no one other than themselves as the "Premier Seller of High Performance Chevy, Ford and Dodge engine parts" *It seems like I'm repeating myself, doesn't it? Read

25thannivZ28

So when you have a seller identifying that they are selling you a 350 fully assembled running motor, documented just to make you feel all fuzzy inside and then you get it home and there's a hole in the piston...Court would rule in the sellers favor? Its an extreme example, but get the picture. You have to be more careful with your words. Never say Never. I have all correspondences between me and Allen.

25thannivZ28

For starters an acknowledgement of my complaints would be nice.

25thannivZ28

Could be worse. I can post a direct link to this thread on my FB page that is connected to all sorts of local speed shops, car groups, Corvette clubs, twitter etc. It could be worse.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Keyword. "SELLER". Premier Seller doesnt make you an engine builder who knows all about what fits and what doesnt fit.

1gary

A defect is one thing and what your concern isn't that.The word never is related to you taking your complaint in front of a judge Judy or judge Joe Brown.Skip supplied you exactly what you paid for.You don't have a case.

Those learning curves you spoke about for yourself over the yrs we have found them to be expensive.It comes with the territory of hot rodding.

Big Boy Pants Now.Admit it.Skip did nothing wrong.You got what you paid for.It's truly that simple.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Have you played with timing and air fuel to develop vacuum? I dont know the psi measurement as vacuum is usually read in inches Hg. I can tell you 9-10" will operate brakes but not in rapid succession. Timing can help build few inches more, i am talkin 30-34 deg at idle. Basically locked timing. Cruise rpms should see 15-20" Hg so that will refill the reservoir. You wont need hydroboost even tho its a good idea. You should be ok with a vacuum canister for reserve vacuum in rapid pedal pumps at low rpm.

Did any of the holes for the top bolts on the bracket fit in? You only really need 1 to work. Also heads have 2 patterns on each end often, and they are reversible. Perhaps he installed them on wrong side?

25thannivZ28

My point is that it was explained to me that "It will work in your 1992 Camaro, you just need to reprogram the computer." With that being said, I expected to take it and put it in my Camaro and reprogram my computer. Guess what, if you read other posts you will notice that my complaint is that it didn't work like it said it would.

I got what I paid for, a running motor. YES, but what good does my running motor do me if I can't fit it in my 1992 Camaro as it was said to work with? What don't you understand?

Big Boy Pants? Seriously, you're going to go there? I'd be more insulted if I valued your opinion, now lets not turn this into General Hospital.

Skip did nothing wrong? You mean he didn't mis-lead me into believing that this engine would fit into my Camaro with only a computer tune? READ READ READ.

25thannivZ28

Good to know, thanks. I haven't invested in that hydra boost system yet and I haven't gotten to the point yet of adjusting my timing. Hopefully that will work itself out. From the video of the test run at Skipwhite (search youtube title KRAMER 406) it only registers about 10 at idle then 18 @ 2500rpm.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Try it as is with the factory brakes and see how it feels. Play with the tune and see what happens. Work from there.

25thannivZ28

I tried reversing it, it presented the same problem. Had they returned my calls we probably could have worked something out where I just send him the heads back and he refunds the $ to a Short Block cost.

DeltaElite121

did you call them back again yet?

xx138xx

Sounds like he took you for a ride.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Forgive my ignorance please---
Would a vacuum reserve can be of any good??

25thannivZ28

I didn't call them back yet, no. Last correspondence attempt was about 2 weeks ago, where I left message with no response. 1 week later I posted this thread, here we are today. Now knowing they have other outside sources telling them about THIS problem, I will wait for them to respond before I go further.

Like I said earlier, it could be worse. I didn't try BBB yet, and I didn't use other forms of social media but that would probably be my next step.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I think I'd try calling again before you start your smear campagin arcoss thr net.

Maybe they will cut you a deal on a vacume canister and some brackets.

25thannivZ28

I agree with ONE more attempt, though I probably will write a certified letter and include copies of emails. That's no different than what BBB would do and this way they wont be exposed further than this thread.
If still no response then ill go further.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Okay, I was thinking about this and my years of managing a Parts Counter.


Here is what I think happened. A sales person got your question, he thought, 1. This is a Troll, or 2. This is a daydreaming kid. So his reply was probably tounge in cheek figuring you would never go through with the order.

Was it the right response, no.


Now imagine if you had came here FIRST and asked the same question.

You would have likely gotten many responses telling you why that engine would not be a bolt in deal.

solaris_vii

iTrader: (3)

not even that the salesman is trying to make a sale but they probably just dont know. they get calls every day from people asking about 50s chevys, 80s fords, 70s dodges and everything else you name it. they cant know the answer to every question, thats just impossible. and odds are they dont sell many engines to thirdgen owners since third gen owners are notoriously cheap. therefore they dont know much about your tpi system and probably just assume its 'a regular old small block' which in many respects it is, but there are minor differences which seem to have affected you. id cut them some slack, nobody can know the answer to all the questions theyre going to get asked and if youre going to drop 5k on a diy project then do a little investigating yourself first

Richboll

If I'm unhappy with a recently purchased product for whatever reason, as long as it's not used, trashed, broken, or otherwise damaged, I should be able to return it for a full refund or store credit (if that's their posted policy). But maybe the real issue here is that the OP delivered his issues/concerns/dissatisfaction to the seller and did not get a response. That's a real problem. Can you imagine walking up to the customer Service desk at Wal-Mart/Home Depot/ Lowes to return something (that you didn't need or really want or it didn't fit) and having everyone behind the counter ignoring you? Who wouldn't go ballistic, especially if this was your 3rd or 4th time back and you recieved the same silent treatment each time. This probably could have been easily resolved 2 months ago. Now there isn't much hope of that happening. I've never purchased anything from Skip White and at this point I probably never will.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

From what I read, the op called one time, left a message, did not get a call back, then posted this.

As I suggested, thr op should probably call back again, before bashing the across the net.

Richboll

I don't know...sounds like multiple calls and emails to me. Maybe the OP needs to clarify this.

25thannivZ28

AL called back after my most recent attempt via Certified Mail and we came to a resolution. read top post. Thanks again AL!

LHernandezJr

Glad to hear that!

25thannivZ28

Based on this statement, you didn't read. AL & I talked things over, everything's all good.

25thannivZ28

Thanks for your 2 cents, but I think I mentioned repetitively that I didn't expect the faults listed in the original complaint causing a problem. Its not like I'm thinking to myself that "Hmmm, I wonder if that camshaft will impact my braking ability, maybe I should research that first." I still am not an ASE Certified mechanic, since I posted the other day. Just sayin

Regarding your 3rd gen remark of them SkipWhite not being educated on, What would make me believe they are NOT? Not only is this a learning experience for me, it may be for them as well. (If your statement was true). If they don't already maybe they'll take this experience and build a product line geared strictly to 3rd Gen Fuel Injection.

If I had done the short block through him, guess what, it would bolt right in. Unlike what all the other guys are saying on here thinking that it wouldn't because of it being such a "Higher magnitude". All I really would have needed was the right set of heads and I could have kept my miniram. Bigger injectors, fuel system (which I knew I needed so no research required). And obviously a tune.