I'm looking seriously at getting a HSR setup for my 400 for next year. I'm not afraid to admit, I know little about it besides the ads, and a few other things I've searched for here.

I'd like more techincal info - I'd actually like to get the instruction manual so I could get a feel for what I'd need to do this right the first time because I've never seen one up close nor know anybody that has one. Holley's site doesn't have it.

I'd like to get a better grip on how it works too. Like how it adjusts timing curves, how to adjust fuel curves etc..

Any info or links appreciated!

 

Well let me tell you this its been about a year since I started my engine swap in my 87 TPI 305 to a 327 HSR. An today I finally cranked it and it fired right up with no adjusting at all and it sounds MEAN!!!!!!!! Honestly all I did was put the wire harness back on just like a regular TPI system with out hooking up the cold start injector. All I got thats hooked up to the intake is a temp sensor for the water in front then I pluged up the rest of the front intake holes. Under the plenum I got one line going to a pcv valve an in the back I put a air temp sensor then I put 2 vacum lines one going to the brake boost. I forget where the other going. You don't need any water going into the throttle body so skip those hoses. All thats left is the TPS, IAC and MAF sensor. My 327 has a single pattern 292 dur .480 lift cam hyd tappet, 1.6 roller rockers, and Trick flow heads. I don't know alot about power curves and tunning but I got my engine dailed in with very little tunning. And I'm using a stock pump with 30lbs injectors.

 

Holley has a whole list of files for various engine combos onlines.
Makes start up a hair easier on the newb. Use one of these to start with.
I thought they had a manual online too. Been a while.
I decided to use a factory ecm for various reasons so I don't know much about the C950 ecm and it's tuning.
Accel has a tuning pdf file. The basics of tuning are the same regardless of ecm. The names of the parameters change between companies though. As well as the number of things you can tweak to nail the tune down.
Do a search on C950 on the DFI board to get some insight.
Look at Stealthram.com for some more info.

 

I would not put a HSR on a 400.

Look at the runners where they leave the plenum, and you'll see why. They are too small. They do not support the flow your heads are capable of.

The HSR is the successor to an old dual 4 bbl product that Holley made some years back, called the "Street Ram" if memory serves me. It was NOT in any manner way shape or form a performance piece. It was intended for street rodders that simply wanted 2 carbs on top of their motor. It has all of the usual dual carb problems; hard to sync the carbs, weird fuel distribution (especially in that one, because it had 2 discrete carb air boxes on top IIRC); and so forth. It was largely a diappointment in the marketplace.

Fast-forward about 20 years.... they dusted it off, added injector bungs to the casting, and made a different plenum for it. Voilà!! Instant FI manifold. With port injection, ALL of the multiple carb type problems that it had were instantly solved; but, the small runners remain.

Basically, the runners only flow about 425-450 HP, ABSOLUTE TOPS. Meaning, it doesn't matter what you put underneath it, that's all you get. The bigger the motor, the lower the RPM at which you reach that flow limit. That's fine for a 350, a 383 pretty much maxes it out and can use more, and it's really inadequate for a 400.

If you seriously want to go to FI on a big-inch motor, I'd suggest a MiniRam instead. That flows a good 600 HP. In other words, it's not going to be the restriction on your motor.

 

Or look at a SuperRam - especially if you have emissions testing and inspections since it's the only one certified to be emissions legal..... unfortunatley they're pretty d@mn expensive.

 

Thanks for the info so far!

I have till winter to do research on this and come up with (from info gathered) on which EFI will work best for what I want out of the car. I can tell you emissions isn't an issue, and it will be a carb to EFI swap, so I'll need everything. It's mainly street driven..only rare occasions will it see the strip - maybe for "test and tune" days, but that's about it....no real competitive drag racing, so I'm not really pushing to hit 11's in the 1/4 or anything - but it would be nice if it did. If I ended up pushing 450 HP, I'd be happy.

The engine really isn't built to handle anything over about 6K RPMs mainly because of my non-roller setup I have, but I'm really in no hurry to change that in the near future. So I guess I'm looking at very streetable idle-to-6K powerband, but I'm not sure how each of the different EFI systems will effect HP and TQ.

I do know with the carb I have, it peaks on torque early - at 3400 rpms, and HP peaks at around 4200 rpms....when it's tuned right.

Anyways, here's what I've gathered so far - which are others opinions mind you. Please feel free to correct me if i'm dead wrong - I won't take offense cause I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.

Super Ram: Great for high rpm Hp, but a nightmare to install and maintain. Expensive and takes alot of tuning. But probably the best potential for a drag car.

Mini Ram: Good mid and upper rpm system. Takes a little tuning, but I keep reading about TPIS and quality control problems - and it's very expensive. Bad QA and the big $$ are a bad combination and worry me a little. But as RB says, (which I do respect his opinion) - it may be the best combo for what I'm running.

Stealth Ram: I read a couple posts in which people have actually gotten rid of thier Mini Rams, and settled for this system. It's a plus if you already had TPI, but not so much if you have to do the complete conversion like me. Best "out of the box" system, and seems popular. That's why I was considering this one.

I have not yet done any searches for Accel DFI systems or TB type injection, but they look interesting too.

Again, these aren't my conclusions as to which system is "best", because I have no idea - yet. It's just what I've read so far in a few threads.

Please.... keep 'em coming!

 

The runners of the StealthRam can support flow upwards of 300 cfm. A mild street engine can deliver 1.7 hp per CFM and a race oriented engine can make over 2 HP per cfm, so the power it can produce is not limited to 450 horses and it does matter what you set it on top of. The SuperRod Article Sticky on the TPI board has the HSR making 500 horses and with that particular combination the HSR makes a lot more power in the usuable power range than the MiniRam.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...5&pagenumber=2

RPM -- HSR - MR
2600 - 190 -- 186
2800 - 206 -- 202
3000 - 237 -- 215
3200 - 270 -- 258
3400 - 297 -- 282
3600 - 320 -- 308
3800 - 340 -- 328
4000 - 363 -- 348
4200 - 387 -- 370
4400 - 411 -- 388
4600 - 431 -- 409
4800 - 449 -- 425
5000 - 460 -- 449
5200 - 475 -- 468
5400 - 485 -- 475
5600 - 497 -- 485
5800 - 499 -- 500
6000 - 501 -- 501
6200 - 495 -- 504


The main limitation to the StealthRam is intake flange only capable of sealing on 1205 gasket sized head ports without welding up the flange. That's my main beef about the intake.

 

WELL SAID BADSS! I also saw another website (can't remember where it is now) a college kid borrowed his buddies intakes an tested the SR, MR and HSR on his 92 camaro. The engine was far from stock I know it had AFR heads well anyway the HSR had over 20lbs more torque than the MR but the MR made 3 to 4 more HP on the dyno. WHICH AIN"T SH@T. He also tested each at the track an the HSR beat them both by .3 in the 1/4 mile. I've done the research before I bought my HSR and the only reason I would think to buy a MR over a HSR is hood clearance. The HSR is $500 cheaper and makes the same if not better power than the MR. An to say it can't make 500 HP on a 400 block thats BS!
I have one of the newer HSR intakes an I'm using the cheapo intake gasket out of a 5 year old engine kit an I don't have any sealing issues. This is my first 327 and I must say I have never heard a engine sound this sweet!

 

By all means, do some research.
And you'll see whose opinion is closer to reality.....

Pretty funny that an HSR won't support your motor when it's right in your sig how much power it makes.
There is only a whole sticky on the TPI board comparing the intakes. TPI shootout

Your other alternative would be a Edelbrock Victor EFI intake and rails. It's basically a Victor Jr with injecter bungs. Similar price to a HSR, but closer to a SR if you buy a new 4bl TB @ $580.
Seen one guy on TGO who swapped to one from a SR on a 400 and went same ET out of the box with little tuning in worse air.

I agree with BadSS on the gasket thing.
Had to get mine welded up since my heads came pre matched to a 1206. And I could have got them done to a 1205 for no charge

 

Holley has a Hardware and fuel system installation manual for the HSR system....look on there website, I just printed me off one for my HSR. It is very detailed in the instructions too.

 

Engine stand #s from magazines or whatever are great, as far as that goes.

On the other hand, show us a HSR car that has put down more than about 375 HP to the rear wheels.

A Vic Jr isn't a very good citizen under the hood of one of these cars.

I helped a friend put one of these in his truck once; he kept trashing 700s though, I don't think he ever really got it dialed in. A much better deal than converting a carbed intake IMO, as it comes with fuel rail bosses cast in, as well as the injector bungs of course.

 

Ummmm, that would be one of these....

 

Well if a HSR made 504 hp on a 383 and after a 20 to 25% drivetrain loss thats over 400 hp. Then if you set the car up with the right suspension componets you can cut the loss down to 17-18% easily.

 

N/A, or boosted? I've seen a ton of HSR cars making more than 375rwhp. I think a 1205 port is good for 500hp n/a, 600+ hp boosted no problem.

I never was happy with the way I held my fuel rails down on my conversion, but I might correct that this season.

-- Joe

 

The Accel stuff is overpriced.

Hopefully your opinion is based on this intake.
Which I don't even remember....
And the HSR is not based on btw.
It's based on the Weiand HiRam tunnel ram intake.
And still being sold. The runners look fine.
Might be on the small side for a high rpm 400 ci motor. But not what the original post is about.

 

has anyone looked into porting this intake? And flow benching it afterwards? If it could be ported to 300cfm, that would make a world of difference. Anyone have a tech article?

 

You've obviously never seen a Street Ram (or whatever it called itself).

It long pre-dates Holley's purchase of Weiand; about half a decade or more. Maybe a whole decade. The HSR has nothing to do with Weiand anything. It's a Holley piece through and through.

You plainly are a newbie to this business. But you're right, Accel is a bit prouder of their stuff than it mostly deserves.

Since when is the original post not about a 400? Confuzed has been building on and otherwise dealing with his 400 for a couple of years now.

There's not just a whole awful lot of porting to be done. When you se one in person, it will become obvious. (Have I said "obvious" enough lately?)

 

This is obviously going to get into a war, so I might as well end it.

The original question was in regards to running the HSR on his 400. An open ended question like that will result in answers that are simply opinion.

As stated in previous posts a holley stealth ram is designed around a 1205 port. To be "correctly" ported to a 1206, it requires some material to be added to the runners.

Because of that fact alone, some consider it to be a 'street' oriented manifold, since a 1205 gasket is a 'street port'.

Somewhere along the line we got into a "it cant support xxx hp" vs "it can support xxx hp".

Perhaps Confuzed will start a new post, and state directly the information he's looking for. (horsepower, powerband, tuneability, etc) and we can post some factual data to help him along.

edit: I've been meaning to add data to this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=292823


-- Joe