I use engine analyzer. It is alot more accurate than desktop dyno. I got a graph from Brett when he was spec'ing my cam and it is a engine analyzer graph, so I'm pretty sure he is using EA for his cams.

EA is a pretty advanced.. also a 400+ dollar software. I'd love to own something like that but cant see spending that money for a program.

I have no idea where you can send a 25-26 meg file. YOu can try yousendit.com. I think i've used that to send a large video file to a friend of mine. load it to there and i'll beable to download it i think

I think EA is alittle over $100 bucks. The advanced program is much higher.

You can download EAPro for a 10 day free trial. I did and it is awsome. Probably take a couple of days to find all the features and how to use them.

hey yo!...I just sent you that file with DD2003 and drag2003...just follow the direction and it makes the full program active.

let me know you got it.

THANKS! i got it and will start playing with it shortly!

OK ran the new desktop dyno 2003 file with the new eliminator flow numbers an my cam specs, HSR intake i setup as tunnel ram with 1100cfm flow, and large tube headers with mufflers

SEAT TO SEAT TIMING used
I get 565 hp at 6500-7000 rpms
507 lb ft torque at 5500 rpms
Volumetric efficiency was like 106% so these numbers are probly inflated



.050" timing used
I now get
553hp at 6000-6500 rpms
520tq at 5000 rpms

STill not bad tho, efficiency about 101% in some spots so these numbers look about right from what i expect this cam to do. peak around 6000 and hold it well to 6500

torque curve is a tad peaky and and so is the is the hp curve on its way to peak hp rpm, then it flatlines. REALLY rises up after 3000-3500 rpms.


Funny thing is i ran it on a 350 and got 6 more hp at 6500 rpms, but lost 20 lb ft of torque. I really dont need a 383 i guess?



Wishmaster i ran your cam and got these values

.050" timing
519hp at 5500-6000 rpms
523tq at 4500 rpms.

Good numbers too

good deal Im glad you got it! and we figured out a way to get it to ya. better than paying $$$$$$ for it. THats a pretty sweet program huh? now how good it is, still yet to be seen. Im sure DD or EA cant be that far off from eachother. PLus the DD that I sent ya is the updated version so it probably good to go!!!

I would only hope to get numbers like that.
Yeah the curves are pretty peaky...I wonder why? is that normal?

did you leave the ramp rate at 3? I had just let it auto.

yes i let the ramp rate at 3 since my cam isnt very aggressive as far as ramp rates go. i tried 3.5 and it did increase power a decent amount. I think your cam would be alittle more than 3.0 since you have more aggressive ramps. It just peaks earlier with the 4 degrees fewer duration and wider 113 lsa

now i tried to make a stock vette L98 using the flow profiles for L98 heads and it was about dead on. 265 crank hp is what i think a factory L98 puts out...which is near 220whp which also is DEAD on. So the program seems to work well

I need to go thru this same exercise with my MR set up, AFR Eliminator 195s, etc. On my older version of DD2K with the AFR flow numbers and my cam specs, 1100CFM, single plane intake (for the MR), small tube headers w/mufflers, 10.5 compression and the cam specs in my sig, DD2K reports 530HP @ 6000, 515TQ @ 500. I'm afraid those numbers are high....

Ah, no sig, here's the cam specs (courtesy of HiTech5 who helped me spec it out):

236/242 @ 050 hydraulic roller (retro fit)
.581/.578 lift @ .050 with my 1.6 Pro Mag RR
113 LC
13 overlap
-4 timing
9 (BTDC) IVO
58 (BBDC)EVO
109 (ATDC) ICA
47 (ABDC) IVC
4 (ATDC) EVC
117 (BTDC) ECA
5 IVO
54 EVO
113 ICA
51 IVC
8 EVC
113 ECS

whatever all those numbers mean (I'm old, I forget easily.... LOL).....

its probly not gonna be spot on accurate but i've run some other known combos and got pretty darn close to actuals. Either way that combination will fly

I'll try to run those numbers thru my version and see what i can come up with

Thanks, appreciate that!

ok i get roughly 512 hp at 6500 and 478 tq at 5000 when the cam is installed 4 degrees advanced given your specs, using 10.5 to 1 with single plane high flow manifold, large headers/mufflers

small tube headers/mufflers i get 503/474 same rpms


Cam installed straight up with no advance, on a 113/113 ICL/ECL, I get
530/485 hp/tq at same 6500 rpms hp, 5000 rpms tq. Small tube headers/mufflers

large headers/mufflers i get 543/489.



FWIW, my setup does 524/485 at 6500/5000 rpms using your compression/intake and large headers/mufflers

small headers it does 513 at 6000, and 481 at 4500

Interesting - our numbers appear very close for our set ups. I wonder why the new version varies a bit from the old though. Why were you using a tunnel ram for the HSR? Just curious....

And thanks for the numbers! Guess I need to buy the newer version for comparison purposes.....

Using DynoSim I have read that you need to take 95% of the horsepower and torque numbers. It is more accurate that way. Of course the real numbers will depend on the detail of your build. By the way I use small tube headers with mufflers when I use DynoSim.

i used the tunnel ram for the HSR based on the looks of it. Its longer runners and the way it joins the top plenum kinda model a tunnel ram. I've tryed single plane as well and the numbers are listed above and are alot lower. Its hard to model the intake properly, i wish they had files for intakes.

Just throwing TPI on my build brings hp down to 458 at near 5500 which will never happen on a stock TPI setup or possibly even aftermarket unsiamesed setups. Torque is down alot too which it should have gone up...so its hard to say how well this program works with these intake choices

but its safe to say i should be over 450hp and under 600 i'm somewhere in there


EDIT: oh i forgot to add i'm using a custom flow file for the new AFR heads. i made my own file using AFR Eliminator numbers which are around 20cfm higher than old 195's

Yep - I'm doing the same thing on the head numbers.

ok to update my first thoughts on my cam

i like it... i have a base tune in the car right now from pcmforless.com. said i had a cc306 cam and a 383 with AFR's and he sent me a bin file for 75 bucks... oh well i needed a place to start and let me tell you it was a good start

car runs pretty good for a mail order tune but i havent driven it really yet. just around the block and didnt datalog it but i can tell you i still have decent brakes and so far, no surging/bucking at low rpm/part throttles so far...even tho i have 3600 stall and a 1000 rpm idle currently.

BUT i have no doubt this cam will be streetable and driveable once i tone the exhaust volume down and get more tuning time to fine tune it. I'm impressed so far

For a big duration cam on a 109 LSA, its working pretty good with EFI Its not always about LSA, its about total overlap and tune. I will admit tho, closed loop will need some help but the car idles fairly well, just alittle jumpy and alittle higher than chip specified

Did the ring break in procedure that is recommended by GM performance parts for the crate engines, as well as recommended by many other guys/builders out there. Drive it hard early to help the rings set. By hard i mean do some pulls in a gear from light acceleration to medium hard acceleration and let off in gear and let the engine slow itself down. vacuum helps oil the rings and helps them seal up against the cylinder walls i guess. Did a few pulls to 30mph or so then moved to 40, keeping rpms from 2500-4500 depending on what pull i was doing.

All i got to say is 50% throttle in first gear is brutal! Car felt faster then than my L98 bolt on motor did when i was 100% WOT !!

It kinda felt like a 1.75-1.80 60 foot in my old car and i was only at roughly 50-60% throttle from a 15mph roll in first. INSANE.

I only got the car out to about 4500-5000 rpms during a run but it revs sooo fast. its almost instant to get from 2000 rpms to 4500 even at part throttle. Granted i have a 3600 stall but even when i did a 3000-5000 pull on the highway, it just got up and left. Free revving in park is insane its soo fast and sounds good. The edge converter i had restalled feels great and isnt feeling loose at all. Feels as tight as before but it does stall alittle higher according to my tach.

Cam feels great tho. very streetable surprisingly enough considering the big duration and 109 lsa. my base tune is pretty close and part throttle BLMs seem to be in the 130-136 range depending so im' happy about that but then again i'm not sure what the AFR is since i dont have a wideband yet.

Brakes feel good considering the tune and overlap on the cam. I still can stop decent enough even on stock brakes. I'm gonna upgrade to either the LS1's or C5's but as much as i want/need the C5's i still want to use my 15 inch skinnies up front for drag day Oh well we'll see

Sounds good. You just need to get some milage on the car and due a little data logging. I think a lot of us are interested in the dyno results and track times. From what I can tell you have correctly built the motor and it should perform quite impressively. Get that exhaust quieted down and you will have a real sleeper. Lookout LS1's.

it will never be that quiet to be a sleeper haha and i never wanted that.. but i wouldnt mind it to sound like a 12 second car and run 11's or better

the sound is fine for me!...its must seem real loud to you since you still havent completely ran it out the back......its not your DD so the hell if its loud...you got any pictures of how you ran you exhaust? also get some more vids.

I wrecked mine and its been in the body shop for 2.5 weeks now..but I should be drivin it again next weekend.

here's what i got so far

i have it split over the axle into another y pipe to have dual exits like my last setup.

Hahaha. Yeah I'm into the stealth mode myself as if the car was pretty much stock.

cant wait to see numbers or times orr. im hopin its gonna be a real badass for ya.

Regarding camshafts I saw this reply to a person inquiring of David Vizard on how he picks camshafts and the article he wrote. Thought it was interesting. Here is the reply from David.


"If the intake to exhaust ratio is about 75-80% then for a performance cam where top end has priority I will use about 4 degrees more dutration on the exhaust. If it’s a street cam then I almost always settle for a single pattern cam with a rocker ratio the same as the intake."

Bret does 4 degrees for the LT1 cams, i wonder why he feels i need 15 degrees? even tho i plan on nitrous i dont think i mentioned that til after i had the cam made up

i'm now having a difficult time perfecting idle tune. it does some lean spiking before getting closed loop and the idle is surging around alittle, i dont like that

When my car had some idle surge it was running to rich in that area. I had Kevin take some fuel out and the idle improved quite abit. No surging.

I also saw another post where someone had bought a Bauer cam and his intake exhaust valve events were similiar to yours. A big split on the intake exhaust duration.

thats teh funny thing, big splits on exhaust for other cams and lsx grinds but 4 degrees or less on his LE LT1 kits. Not sure why

I don't know either especially with the HSR and the AFR heads your motor is very similiar to an LT1.

Had no idea he was still grinding them, is he still posting on the boards....?

I think Bret has been kicked off most of the boards. I believe he specifys the lobes and Comp Cams makes the cams for him. I believe he is also still doing Lloyd Elliots camshafts for him.

Yeah I remember those days, especially when he and Overton would go at it....

he seems to have different ideas on camshaft designs.... he has been kicked off alot of boards, getting into contact with him has been more difficult

if he is a good camshaft designer...why does he get kicked off the boards?

his attitude towards others i'm sure. the way he presents himself just leads into problems with members on the board. there are reasons for it i'm sure i dont know them all, but i do recall reading alot of threads discussing cam grinds and they get ugly between the members

but like i say his grinds seem to work well. His LT1 grinds have been pretty impressive to me so i went with one of his grinds which even tho turned out different than the LT1 grinds he does, i'm happy so far

He does, but he's one hell of a stand up guy though....

Wish I would have known you were looking for him, he pretty much mainly posts on just one board now w/Ed Curtis. How did you find him....?

Because other's copy his ideas, and profit off of them. Patrick G, over on LS1Tech.com, if I recall did something similar w/Brett's ideas, but I believe both he and Bauer squashed things though and are okay with each other....

Heh, had to run a quick search, but here ya go, Click Here....


-Rob

well all the research over at Camaroz28.com led me to Lloyd Elliot and his LE packages for LT1's when i was thinking of doing LT1. BUT i changed my mind and asked him if he could do LE packages on L98 aluminum heads. Originally i just wanted to cam/L98 heads my L98 and i was gonna get a cc503 cam then decided on xe230/236.

well, after a few long talks with Lloyd about the performance of L98 heads, and a few other breaks i was able to get some AFR 195's. I still was gonna throw that 230/236 cam on the L98.

AFter tear down i didnt like what i saw internally on the L98 so i saved up for a 383 which i always wanted. I decided i'd get a LE2 cam for LT1 for my 383 HSR. I was able to track down bret thru that site as he hasnt been banned yet. I got his website and email so i contacted him to discuss HSR and LE2-LE3 cams. He convinced me they wouldnt be optimal for the HSR so i went custom

here i am now. I got a new idle vid of the car with complete exhaust this time and will upload that tonite

Please do so, I wanna hear it because I'm still contemplating a cam for my 400....

Although Bret and Joe have their differences, they honestly do spec they're cams in a very similar fashion. I remember when Tim got his Lethal camshaft from Joe a few years back, he (Tim) never did delve into the actual specs, but it sure made one hell of a difference. I'll put money that it isn't too far from what Bret had specified for yours, as great minds do in fact think alike, Click Here....

Definitely get that vid up....

just got back from car show, working on vid now.

http://media.putfile.com/383-HSR-Ultraflo-muffler-idle

try that, may take a few min to work. But thats a warm idle of my car with the finished exhaust. I made a detailed thread about it

I really like the sound of it.Working on getting a sound clip of mine.

Your project is coming out extremely well, your going about everything the right way! It sounds absolutely incredible, and I can't wait to see it hitting the track soon. When do you plan on taking it down....?

Thanks i'm trying to do a good job with this build and so far so good i guess

gonna call dyno shop tomorrow if they are open sundays and try to setup an appointment to use the dyno to get it all tuned finally. Saturday would be best for me so this week i'll just keep driving the car normally to get mileage on it

AFter the tune is done, i got to get subframe connectors on. I hope to have them by next week, i think i may go order them now
If i dont i'll just track the car with the street wheels and tires and just baby somewhat off the line. That way i can see what it is capable of trap speed wise Or just use the slicks and not go 100% off the line but maybe like 60-70% and get on it once its moving

I dont wanna full blown launch it now without subframes and that 10 bolt may not like this either


i'll have to get better revs of this thing.. camera didnt pick it up well, i think it was too close. the exhaust has alot of volume flow coming out when i'm on the dyno you bet i'm gonna get good vids of that too

Woo hooo. dyno time! Lets see where this combo peaks!

Any guesses on power and peak rpm? hehe, i think it should peak at 6200

I will say 400rwhp at 6100rpm. I think your air intake may be a restriction at this point in time. Once you let the motor/plenum get all the air it wants at wide open throttle then we can up the ante.

i think the air intake is hurting and not sure i will see 400. i really hope so

Actually tho i'm gonna call the dyno tomorrow to see whats their schedule like to get a tune session going, but we'll find out sooner than this weekend

Wednesday i'm goin to do some tuning at the race track. we'll see what this thing runs ET wise and Trap speed wise and we can make guesses from there. Granted its gonna be hot as hell