A question for all you guys with the built mini ram motors.......I have a 355 with heads, a comp XR276 cam, and the whole mini ram set up. I have been playing with the timing WITHOUT a timing gun, and cant seem to get it right. It pops in the higher RPM's, say above 2800. Sounds like it's coming through the intake pipe. Sometimes when I touch the distributer to turn it, I get a shock.....not sure if thats from faulty wires or something. The wires are not new, they are ones that i had in my garage.

Seems to idle pretty good, it's just when it starts to rev thats the problem. Someone told me the valves could need adjusting, but before i get into that, I want to eliminate things from the most likely down to that. I'd greatly appreciate any help or opinions.

Also got a check engine light, and scanned it. It somes up as code 42, which is spark timing. Not sure if that helps with figuring out my problem or not.

 

thats a big problem right there.... get a timing light asap

also what ecm you running? do you have a tune at all?

 

Remove the dist cap and inspect it for cracks
Inspect the wires for splits and open areas

And get a timing light, they are super cheap

 

I have the stock 86 TPI computer, and a reburned prom. I had a guy I met tune my prom. I think he might post on here. His name is Scott. He said to put the base timing at 10 degrees advance, which I did WITH a timing gun now, and the problem is still there. Distributor is a brand new billet unit, so I'm guessing it's not the problem. Wires could be causing some of it, but it will not rev above 3000 RPM, and that can't be wires alone.

TPS is not set yet for the correct voltage.....I just put it on and plugged it in...would that cause a problem that big?

The warm weather is here, and not driving this thing is KILLING me!!!

 

Anyone have any problem like this??? Someones gotta be able to help a little, I want to drive this thing!!

 

not sure if the TPS is causing it, but it does need to be set ot the right voltages at idle and WOT.

i think its suppose to be .54 volts or near that at idle and over 4 volts at WOT. Adjust it so its proper if its the adjustable type..i'm not sure

And who knows whats done to the prom. If he knows what he is doing it shouldnt be the problem else it may need more tuning work


Also if the dizzy is shocking you thats NOT good... you have to check the wiring, and make sure its the proper dizzy for our cars

 

When was the last time you change the fuel filter? A clogged fuel filter will not let the engine rev up. Take the filter off and try to blow through it. If you can't blow through it, that may be your problem.

 

The guy who burned the chip said to set the TPS between .6 and .7 volts. Not sure if thats correct or not, but I have it set at .65. He definately knows what hes doing because he tunes tpi and lt1 proms at dynoes. He has been doing it for a while. I changed the plug wires and it no longer shocks me, however the car does not run any better. The only thing the car will do is idle. If I give it gas slowly, I can get it to rev to about 2500 RPMs and it starts to pop, but when I give it a quick rev, it just instantly pops, and it comes through the intake. I have heard that the 2 most common problems for this are running too lean, and timing. Could the valves being adjusted too tight cause this? I feel like I have tried everything and its not working. I have 30lbs injectors and am running about 48 PSI of pressure, just to be sure I'm not lean. Could the TPS really cause the car to run that shitty? I also tried disconnecting it and the problem remained the same. Distributor is correct. It's the small cap computer controlled dist. I am getting 2 trouble codes too. Code 22, and code 42. Hope this helps.

Also, will the car run if the distributor was 180* out? I didn't think it would, but I've never had it happen before. I appreciate the help, and hopefully we can put our heads together and get this car running, as I am very determined to drive it!

 

sounds like a timing issue if your chip is setup to run 30lb injectors and the guy knows what he is doing. Only way to tell for sure is check the air fuel ratios at idle and slowly reving up

take a look at your spark plugs and see if they are lean looking...they will be snow white if they are very lean.
But then again i have heard it could be RICH and backfire thru the intake. SO check for fuel smell and darker plugs

After that adjust the TPS to around .54 volts. they say anywhere from .46-.61 will work. Verify its hitting over 4 volts at WOT
Code 22 is low TPS voltage so make sure its getting the proper volts to it.

code 42 is something ignition related i beleive.. you have to go thru the distributor, ignition module, coil, and ESC unit as well as the wiring. Check all that again to make sure its right. Check the ECM for good wiring connections, it could be a lose connector to the ecm or somewhere in the engine bay. Worst case is a bad ecm

Maybe take off the dizzy cap and install it again with the rotor pointin to #1 cyl at TDC and reset timing again.

Then check your base timing again with EST wire disconnected. set it around 8-10 if your chip guy says he set it up to run 10 base. It may have too much timing so try to adjust it till the motor is right.

How is it idling? what rpm does it idle at?

 

It has a little of an offbeat idle, but I figure thats because of the cam. Idles ussually right at 8-900 RPM. Every once in a while it will jump to 1100 RPM, and then kick back down.

I'll try re-adjusting the TPS and go through the ignition system and then reply to let you know my progress.

 

The symptoms you describe are typical of a lean condition. I don't run a mini ram but had a simular problem (to a lesser extent) with my HSR. Had to add AE. There are a few tables that relate to it. In a 165 maf system, the "LV8 Accel. enrich coolant facytor vs coolant temp" had the biggest effect. Higher numbers at operating temps make it richer. From what I understand the mini ram needs even more.

Now I'm just guessing but I would think a mini rammed motor would like the same timing as my HSR. I'm running 24' at idle and 32' total all in by 3200. Also, you could have a lot of timing in the lower load (LV8 for maf) ranges. I mapped the timing like an old school dist with vacuum advance. Low loads can have as much as 45' in my setup.

Of coures, if you have valves being held open that could cause a lot of backfire problems too. I'd make sure the mechanical issues are in order then look at fuel, then spark.

 

Did you tune your PROM yourself? I have looked at everything. Re-adjusted the valves today, changed the computer and the ignition control module. I have looked at everything, and I think what it's coming down to is that I need someone to plug into my chip and tell me whats going on. I'm out of ideas, and I'm not sure if I trust the tune on my PROM. I'll unplug the timing spout connector, and the timing jumps around like crazy even with that unplugged as I'm turning the distributor. This thing is acting weird, and I'm about to grab a hand grenade and throw it in there!

 

Yep, wierd things happen. That's when I walk away and come back later. Seems like a nights sleep helps to inspire me where to tinker next.

And yes, I'm tuning my own chips. It's a must. Before I got my burner it was like having my hands tied cause I could only make mechanical (timing, fuel pressure etc) changes. There's a whole other world in there. First get an ALDL connector, TunerPro RT and a laptop. Go to www.moates.net they have everything you need (less laptop) for about $200 bucks. Makes it really easy. Start datalogging to see what's going on. Then apply your "old school" tuning tricks to the digital setup. It doesn't really behave like a carb and distrubutor but that's how I started.

Prepare to make a lot of changes then start over (again and again) as you learn more. I used the APYP for an 89 Vette as a starting point. You can find it through the links on the moates web site. Be patient when you tune and realize it's a learning process. I've probably burned 40 versions not including one's I've scrapped.

There's a lot of know how on this forum and good people to help you out. Also bear in mind, the things you read in the stickies and tech section will make a whole lot more sense once you are actually programming. Man it's worth the effort and you'll be amazed how good you can get that thing running once you get the hang of it. I've only been programming about a month but I datalogged for 2 or 3 months and played with TunerPro RT off and on for about a year before I got my burner.

 

Wow, thats very helpful actually. Now is what you described to get good for actually changing settings and then making them permanent, or would I need something else for that? I have a laptop, and a good one at that, so I'm all set in that field. The other problem is that I want this car to run. . .the sooner the better, as it has been off the road for over 2 years, and I have been stuck driving an 87 plymouth voyager! It was supposed to fire up with the chip, but thats proving untrue.

 

Yes the changes are permanent... til you change your mind. That's the beauty of it. Here's what I got from Moates:

ALDU1 and CABLE1 ($80) This is the cable and converter to datalog with your computer. (you'll also need the TunerPro RT program but it comes with the next item) Actually, there are plans to make this device on this forum (which is what I did) but it's not actually worth it. Especially when you consider it took me two trys and about a week to get it working.

Burn1 ($85) This is the actual chip reprogrammer. It comes with the TunerPro RT program, Burn 1 program and a usb cable.

GP1 ($55) This is the adaptor to put a re-programmable chip into your ecm. It comes with 2) chips and a zif socket installed. (the zif socket makes changing the chips sooooo easy) And having two chips means that you can be re-programming one while the other is still in the car.

*otpional*

HDR1 ($10) This adaptor allow you to "read" your stock chip with the BURN1 and TunerPro. It's the best way to know where you're starting from.

They have lots of other cool stuff, but this is the basics. Everything was top quality, rugged and easy to work with. I think I ordered them on a Tuesday and received them on Thursday. So for $230 plus shipping you're in the chip burning business. Now knowing what to do from there is where the fun begins. Or frustration Just keep your grenade launcher put away and you'll be fine.

 

Well its great knowing now what I need to get started trying to tune this thing. I guess I'll keep the grenade launcher for emergency use only for now, and look into getting this stuff. Hopefully it's easy to pick up how to use it!

 

whitedevil where in CT are you?

Ryan

 

I am out of Suffield. About 15 mins from hartford. Why?

Also, would having some of the fuel injector plugs swapped cause this possibly? Any way of telling which injector each plug goes to? The entire harness is new, and I guessed which plugs went to which injector. . . .

 

I have a moates burn 1 I don't use

 

PM me on what you'd like to get for it, and I may consider it. I hate not having the right tools for the job, and that is something I'd like to get into!

 

Don't think so. At least it doesn't matter on mine (165 ecm/$6e) the injectors are "batch" fire. That means they all fire at the same time so you should be fine. I'm pretty sure your 86 would be the same.

 

Ok, phew....that takes some relief off for now. I think I'm goin fishing today to forget about the car for now! Then when I have some money, I may consider the moates set up.

 

Glad that makes you feel better. As my grandpa used to tell me, "when you got a problem you can't figure out- go fishin. The answer will come."

 

Just found something out. When I am giving the car gas, the fuel pressure on my gauge is dropping. . . This is a new holley 255lph pump. Anything else I should look for, or may this be the pump??

 

Fuel Filter!

 

It all depends, how much is it dropping?

It's supposed to drop some, that's the regulator doing it's job. For example, mine's set at 44psi but when I disconnect the vacuum line it drops to about 38. Same thing when I give it gas. It drops momentairly but comes right back up. And with the problems you're having, it wouldn't suprise me that yours would drop a lot and stay there for a second or two because your engine is probably not pulling a good vacuum due to the way it's running.

However, like the post above me says, check your fuel filter and voltage at the pump, kinked or pinched lines etc. Same problem (or at least symtoms) lean out hesitation and backfire (probably).

 

My 355 Miniram was doing something very similar. I talked to a good friend who told me to add alot of fuel to it. So, I did a little research on how to achieve that. The easiest way was to go into your ECM and add a ton of fuel to the AE using Tunerpro RT. Then burn your chip and try it again.

 

I took the fuel filter out and blew through it. I can blow through it, but it takes some force to do so. Also, if I rev it up to 3000 RPM, the fuel pressure is dropping about 10-13 psi, and If I hold it at 3000 RPM, it doesn't come back up. If I ease on the gas slowly, the engine will rev up to 5500 RPM's no problem, but with quick taps on the throttle it will not rev, just pops still. I feel like i'm getting closer, but I'm not there yet.

 

Well, just so everyone knows, I found the problem. I feel like an idiot, as most of us do when we find out it was something stupid. A freind was over, and found that after advancing the timing more and more, the car would run better and better. We kept advancing it until it was running really good. I now have a ton of power, and the car is very responsive whenever you step on the gas. No more popping either....just every once in a while, but the engine also isn't fine tuned yet. Still have to play with the timing more, and get the air/fuel ratio set right, but like most people, I dont own a dyno, so that will have to wait!

Just one more question though. The base timing now with the connector unplugged is 46 degrees advanced! Is that ok? The car runs almost perfect, but thats a ton of timing!!

 

Is that with the timing light? If so do you have the right balancer for the car and or timing pointer for the car? Sounds to me like something is physically not right. Has your balancer spun on its shaft?

If that is from data logging then yes that is a lot of timing. Not sure what the problem would be.

 

I agree. 46 probably isn't the "real" base timing. Yes, check the balancer and all.
Now 46 as reported by the ecm, especially if you're just "revving it in the driveway" is believeable. Still maybe a bit high though.

Oh and congrats! Most problems seem much smaller in hind sight.

 

When I ordered the balancer, I just got an 8 inch (i think?) for a small block chevy. The stock one on the 305 was the smaller 6 1/2 inch, and the timing tab is just one of those universal auto zone ones. The balancer didn't spin I'm sure of because the engine was built out of the car and everything was installed correctly, with the chock in the crank, etc. Theres really no way it could have spun after everything was tightened down. I'll look into it, but it runs good now, and I'm happy!

 

I know of two different timing marks on the factory balancers. One for the TPI cars and I believe one for the 305 TBI cars. You can use either one but you need the correct pointer to go with it. It looks like the problem lies in that area.

 

Make sure the dial on the timing light is set at zero if you have one of those.

 

i agree with 3/4 of these guys.Your problem is that your tune is off......been through it. Im running stealth ram dart plat 200cc and the hot cam,id say i ended up adding around 30% more fuel above 3000 to get it equalled out

 

Looks like you've found the problem. Now what to do? As a post a couple before said there are a few different balancer/timing location for the 80's+ small chevys (not to mention the 30 years before that!) Now if it's an aftermarket balancer (or harmonic dampner to be **** about it) you can probably just go to the manufacturer and find our what the correct timing tab and location is. If it's just a "replacement one" you can probably compare it to your old one and determine what to do. You gotta get this right or all your other timing related issues will be just guess work.

 

Soon after I got it to run pretty decent, I found that I had the two wires that go into the ignition module under the cap swapped! Put them back to where they were supposed to go and the car wouldnt even start at where the dist was set to. I moved it about a quarter turn counter clockwise and it fired up, and it is now running excellent, not just decent. I havn't had a chance to get a timing light on it yet, but my guess is thats why the timing was getting so thrown off. Took it for a ride and it definately doesn't feel like the horsepower it should be putting out, so I need some dyno time and a tuner now! It is very driveable however and runs very smoothly. Thanks for all of your help as well!

 

I was just getting ready to say check those wires to the ignition module. I did the same thing once, sorry I didn't jump in here sooner. I'd also pull the driver's valve cover, rotate the engine to top dead center on the compression stroke ( I like to use a TDC finder stud from Summit to do this), and verify the timing tab is in the correct location. THEN unplug the timing wire and set your base back to 10*. All that is necessary to make sure you're at the correct starting point before going into any tuning exercises, believe me!!!!

 

Was wondering why my engine was running funky.

My Firing Order is

1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2-

After I called the company on my cam specs, I was informed that when the cam was custom ground that 2 cylinders were swapped on the firing order to help cut down on crank deflection. Anyone else ever heard of this?

 

Yes I have heard of the 4-7 swap. How did you come by that cam? They also do a 2-3 swap.

 

I installed a cam with 4/7 swap. I fired up the motor but have not driven it yet. Idle is noticeably smoother.

 

I called up crower and gave them my 1st born child for payment. Still might own them money after it's all said and done. Finally found someone on the inside that help me out.