if your new at burning it's going to take you at least 50 tries
you will need a scan tool.. and a AFR meter to get your fuel setup proper
I posted my time above with a high 155k+ 305 I was pulling 14.3 with my tuning..
there were no motor mods or headers that is a huge improvement

 

Scan tools are expensive. No clue what a AFR meter runs.

Huge improvement over what? What did you run before said 14.3. I saw a 305 cut out only the day I was running do 16's. and v6 newer camaros do 16.0's.

 

MY original completely stock 305 that i removed in sept.. pulled 14.3 in the 1/4 that is very impressive for a this engine 155,+++ miles it was my tuning, gears & injectors.. thats it
you can pick up a scan tool for under 50.00 bucks.. a AFR meter 40.00 bucks you tap into your 02

 

moates aldl cable for 80 bucks plugged into a laptop will read everything you want with tunerpro rt software. Just need the laptop, thats the expensive part about tuning.

 

I own a big 18" HP laptop I got for Christmas and an IBM thinkpad laptop. (either of these will work correct?) Now alls i need are the Moates goodies.

 

depends on the year of the thinkpad. You need either a USB cable or serial to USB converter for the Moatest Ostrich 2.0

 

The laptop i used was from mid 90's and was kinda beat on. used it to tune my 383 and 75% of my 401 before the laptop finally broke on me. Doesnt need to be special to run moates software and tunerpro rt

 

Will i be able to see a power curve with this software? Or is that specifically a dyno thing?

 

IF you tune MAF code strickly with PE mode vs RPM for wot tuning you will or should see your power curve. The PE mode will follow the torque curve and you will beable to see a hp peak as well.



Guess where i peaked out on torque and hp? around 4400 rpm for peak torque and about 6300 for peak hp.

Where the most fuel goes, typically see most torque

 

Wow have I been trying to figure out what i'd be getting myself into with DIY tuning in the DIY PROM threads...... looks like a mess but i'm willing try. Hopefully i can get some good advice and pointers when i get into it. Going to order the hardware here soon.

 

Just got off the phone with moates. They said i should go with the APU1 autoprom package so I have real time emulation and also get the GP1. Looks like thats a little more expensive than the going the other route but sounds better.

 

Supposed to have my car back tonight with dyno numbers.

Anyone want to take a guess at what it will make?



I'm hoping for a solid 300rwhp

 

Uhg, they pushed it back till this Saturday. lame....

 

I have that set-up exept im running 26# injectors and my cam is a Lunati 268I/279E with .489 lift on a 112 LSA and 1.6 roller rockers. I have a Hughes 2500-2800 stall. I havent taken it to the track yet cause im still running the stock chip and I dont want to rev it to 6k and have something bad happen. I hope you pull some good numbers!

 

Numbers are in!

256 rwhp @5500 rpm
279 tq

track times to come soon!

 

what did you set your distributors base timing @
these system love timing.. Mine runs awesome @ 16 BTDC.. but my cam is a wee bit bigger

so far from a 2nd gear 2.5K launch..I pull 112.53 in the 1/4 no slicks Yet
I need more practice to clutch launch @ 3.5 - 4K and watch the lights

 

Hey, I just got done changing my fuel pump for my new cam. I was driving out to the local cruise night last saturday, first time in about 3 months I had my car running, and on the way. I chirped into 3rd! With a 700r4 trans! I've never been in a car with that trans that chirps into third, ever! And I had a bad wire. I'll take a vid and post it on youtube soon. I have others on there, I'm cronsformula350

 

MY buddy whos owns a stock L98 came out tonight. We lined em up before i started to tear down and build this up. I took him by a half car everytime. Well tonight after the intake, cam, vortec heads, and tune, he kills me by a car or more at every speed and launch. WTF is going on. his car is still bone stock

 

U need to have a good tune! I ran 13.8s with a slipping trans for less than $2000 with 156,000!

 

Couple charts during tuning. Orr, You seem to know a lot about these cars, and I know you've had some experience with the HSR. I'm wondering where all of my power is/went. My neighbors got a stock L98 iroc, we raced before my mods and i would beat him by half a car. Well once i got the car back a few days ago we went out and he whooped me from every light and rolls of 50+ all the way up to 80mph. Thats where I should be breathing and pulling on him but its not happening, and yes his cars still stock..

 

your cam is very mild!!!
what cc heads do you have?? what pistons??? where did you set your base timing?? 12 Deg is where the HSR just starts to Open..what injectors do you have??? Stock throttle body?? who did the Prom tune??? what did they change

 

Definately not a good sign to be beat by a stock L98. Your dyno numbers are around where bolt on L98's run, but the torque is way way low. Should be well over 300lbft

When you dyno'd it, what chip did you run? Stock L98 code? Vortec heads will want a whole different timing curve compared to L98 irons. Your car is peaking at 5500 rpm which is about where it should peak with that cam, but the hp seems abit low. Cam isnt very mild, it should make good power. High 200whp range would easily be expected.

The torque tells the story, its very low. I think this car needs tuned up. Who knows what the air fuel ratio is during the mid range and what timing you are actually running in the chip.

EDIT: also, where do you shift this thing at? It runs to well over 5500 and still not peaked yet. Take it to 6-6.2K rpm and see how it compares. Still down on power but should run harder.

 

I ran your cam on my simulator.. the cam could make VERY good power with my setup
your heads, throttle body and compression are killing you..
I Compared your HSR combo vs TPI.. the TPI has more power & Torque untill 4K
I would say swap out the heads.. to start with your HSR will be able to breath

 

Had my mechanic over today, we jumped in the car and instantly he goes "this isnt running right, feels like its missing. either the spark or fuel but its so rough it feels like 7 cylinders." We drove around the block and came back to check things out. First he sprayed for vacuum leaks around the TB and intake. All good. Then 5 minutes later it stalled while idling. (Not the first time it's stalled. Couple days ago I came off from driving on the hgihway for 20 or 25 miles and came to a light, it stalled and wouldnt start up for 30 minutes or so. And a few days ago I was driving down to the store 10 minutes away and it stalled when i got to their parking lot, but it did fire up instantly that time.) So anyways, we fired it back up then it sent out the Service Engine Light. I told him what EVI told me, Its just the speedo thats not working that causes the light to turn on. (the speedo worked just fine when i dropped the car off) Well he went to pull the code anyhow and this is what he found...

DTC - 24 Vehicle speed sensor error (open circuit or no activity)
DTC - 32 EGR system failure
DTC - 33 MAP sensor circuit error (signal high indicating low vacuum)
DTC - 36 MAF sensor error
DTC - 36 24x Crankshaft position sensor circuit error
DTC - 43 Knock sensor error
DTC - 54 Digital EGR Valve solenoid 2 error

The #24 was expected as the tuning shop EVI told me, and the 32 and 54 egr is deleted so that explains those. But the crankshaft and knock sensor? Crossing my fingers this is where my issues and power lyes.

 

The shop said it could be the ECM, they put a reman in from autozone, and said it could be bad. Time to put the next one in...

 

Alot of these codes, may be from simple lack of good grounds, and bad connections. I have no EGR on my car, haven't thrown a code for that. The computer can't tell whether or not its there, this is OBD 1. Just disconnect it.

My car threw a vss code once, after the car sat for 6 years! then that was it, never showed up again.

As for those MAF codes, there are three relays, any one of them if its malfunctioning, will slowly ruin the maf. Sounds like you have a issue with the MAF Burn off relay, thats the biggest trouble. Simply turn the car off, and the burn off relay should burn off the heated MAF wire inside, if not, thats a problem. The others are for power basically.

If theres a knock sensor code, theres some knock that the motor doesn't like. You can disconnect that too, and the computer won't notice that either. The knock sensor is piezoelectric & produces a 8-10 volt signal when it hears knock.

Those EGR codes are something weird.

Usually the computers aren't the issue, they don't go bad, they're murdered! My formulas has 127K on it, my iroc-z 156K and my cavalier 160K. Before you condemn the computer, you should see if its getting a bad signal, so check all the sensors, sensor wiring, and all wiring going from the computer to the sensors. Usually guys say that the computers bad, and they never check the wiring.

 

Man that sucks!! Getting beaten by a stock Iroc has to be a major downer. Even with my stock tune I take down LS1s and our combos are similar. Keep us updated and show your friend whos boss!!

 

I put a fresh new heated o2 sensor in my car, with a gm connector for the sensor, no more fault or lean codes! I'm running 12* base timing my my fastchip tune. And now my car runs greater than before! I'll post a video soon

 

Went to a reputable mechanic. He seems to think I lost some power because the heads are 4cc's bigger than my old set, making me lose needed compression and the rockers may need to be adjusted.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on the compression theory?

 

your 305 Vortec heads.. Stock valves?? Ported ?? you now have 64cc ?? not 58cc
4 VR flat tops??? Std bore?? gasket thickness??
your cam would work better with around 11:1 compression
again I'm sure those heads are constricting your HSR

 

Can you remind me of your current setup with everything you've recently done to your motor? 4ccs isn't gonna kill your motor, but remind me of your current setup.

 

Ok guys, before i did the swap i was running a 350, 64 cc head, and all of the original TPI, im assuming the cam was the stock one from the 350gmpp package or the original 305 in these cars that he swapped into the 350. He also did headers with no cats and a flow 80 muffler. The new vortecs heads got cleaned, new valve guides, and the gaskets were a felpro original most likely. They are bigger then my old heads. How would they be constricting? Is the change in CC size on the head killing my compression?

Then I swapped the HSR, 268 cam, and matching vortec heads(68cc). What I came out with AFTER my tune was very poor numbers of 247hp and 269tq i believe or very close to. Most people come out with over 300whp with this motor.

Anyways i raced my friends stocks 1988 L98 (350cid) like usual before the upgrades and we were both neck and neck. Then we did after my mods, and he smoked me on every level. Light to light, 25-90 roll, 40-90 roll 60-90roll and so on and he beat me every time.

So me and my mechanic believe it to be because I lost my compression in a small compression motor because i changed to a bigger cc head.

 

what did you set your base timing @?????
what is your rail pressure???
what Lbs injector are you using???
you are running a stock tune Correct..
you have 1.5 rockers as well correct

your cam really needs Compression,, so yes with stock pistons on 64cc heads.. only give you about 9.5.. you should have installed .125 domes

your HSR will flow much better with a 58mm TB.. 190ish intake runners 2.02 / 1.6 valves

 

Did you re-use the 305 injectors? That combo should easily hit 300hp and 350ft lbs with a good tune. Your problem started when you installed the new parts so thats the 1st place I would start. Even with all of the parts there shouldnt be such a negative effect on performance. For hp and torque to be that low theres definitely something major working against you. Make sure you have 350 injectors (22#) and verify that you have 350 vortec heads (062 or 906 castings).

 

You have plenty of compression with iron heads. Sounds like it needs tuned in the worst way. I'd make sure cam is installed right and the springs on the heads match the cam. As long as there are no vacuum leaks anywhere and mechanically sound, it should just need a tune.

Has cold start been deleted on your setup now? Are you using the right spark plugs for the heads?

I'd try a new chip based on an ARAP bin but with MUCH less timing for those vortec heads. ARAP seems to handle cam/heads setups fairly well. Other L98 bins will work as well but may need much more PE mode enrichment.

 

I verified they are 906 vortecs dressed with the springs and rockers that came with them which look stock, im using 24# injectors, And I already got a Performance dyno tune! Im assuming the cold start injector has been deleted and I'm using the recommended for 87 350's stock champion cheap plugs.
Old heads were 14101083's 1.94/1.50 64cc
New vortecs 10239906 1.94/1.50 68cc

My mechanic suggested I was losing my power because of the heads, making me lose compression. So i should put a thin head gasket on to try to get some comp. back, is what he told me.

 

The stock springs are hurting you

 

Vortec heads have 64cc combustion chambers and the 906s have slightly smaller chambers, 63cc IIRC

 

mo money for springs and 1.6rr's i guess...

i was going off of some chevy website that said they're 68cc, but whatever. is it still large enough to hurt my compression and power tho is my main question?

oh weird, i did another search and did find they're 64cc also. hmm. guess that rules out my questioning the compression.

now i need to find out why there was gas in my oil. mechanic said to check the main bearings.

 

1.6RRs aren't needed, just an option. Gas in the oil? What oil are you using?

 

i ran some straight 30 oil through it then drained that cause it still seemed diluted with gas. I have yet to fill it back up with anything or drive it at all.

 

I dont think its a compression issue. I think its more in the tune and now looking at the springs, stock springs really arent enough for that cam but your down on alot of torque and hp. Not sure springs only will help you.

Did the dyno tune have wideband air fuel ratio read out?

 

Just talked to someone at the shop. They said they wouldn't tune it without the a/f ratio being withing +/- .2 of 12.8

 

Tune closer to 12.5 on a dyno. Street will tend to lean it out alittle bit more since a chassis dyno wont load the motor like true street driving will.

 

What are your cam specs?You may be in coil bind with your stock springs.You may need to have your valve guides cut down.

 

What spark plugs are you using?
Vortec heads require a longer reach plug vs. standard Chevy heads that were on your engine previously.

 

That could be a problem... 87 350 heads are not the same as vortecs as mentioned above

 

Also something to note, he has a mechanical oil pressure gauge that is reading around 20 psi of pressure. We changed the oil and it shot up to 45 psi but didnt hold.

Also what plugs would be recommended for his application?

 

The engine spec sheet is what the previous owner gave me, said it was the specs of the 350 he put in.

What spark plugs do you guys have in mind? Just ask for the recommended vortec style plugs?