Ok, so I'm a car dumb-*** teenager that just got his license and 92 camaro, I realize I'm the scum of the serious thirdgenners oil filter, but how do you guys learn all this stuff about cars? I mean I can't experiment on mine too much cause it's my daily driver and can't afford to lose working condition, but at the same time I feel it's my duty to bring some respect to third gens in my part of town with all these ***** high schoolers driving eclipses everywhere. I've read a lot of the articles for ultimate tbi and stuff, but it's still over my head. I've got the haynes manual and it's not too entirely helpful either. so my question is. Where is good place to learn all this stuff and also what can I do to my 305 tbi rs 5spd to get it as fast as possible without breaking the 800 dollar mark. THanks

 

Well, scrap that Haynes manual and get a Chiltons. Learn as many technical things about your car as possible without actually doing it yourself. This website is a excellent depository of information on specs, years, models..etc. One thing to remember is that this is a GM product with MANY years of r&d behind it. Here's some help for f-bodies. Many parts bolt from camaros to firebirds and back across many generations. The suspension is a Mcpherson front and solid rear back. You might have slip of some form. 305 tbi engines are tough to kill, but with a lack of market support compared to tuned port, it's tough to build power. Try upgrading the exhaust, and intake. The t-tops will leak. Strengthen the frame with sub-frame connnectors and reseal them. Search the boards for topics your interested in. You'd be suprised at how many times people ask the same question. I hope this helps!

 

Scrap the Haynes and Chiltons and get a Helms. Those are the actual service manuals for our cars and are year and model (Camaro/Firebird) specific. You can purchase them new for appx. $75, or used on eBay for a lot less. Actually if you don't know anything about cars the Chiltons may be more helpful in the beginning for you as it is written in laymans terms, while the Helms manual is very technical and assumes you know the basics. However if you need specifics, the Helms manual is the only way to go. I suggest that you do a lot of lurking on the message boards here, reading as many posts as possible. Just remember that there are a lot of people here who know what they are talking about, and a lot who don't. After awhile things will start to make sense to you, and you'll find yourself understanding what is good advise and what isn't. Of course, there isn't anything better than hands on experience, and while it can be terrifying to tear into your car, if you start simple it won't be so bad. And if you get in too deep, you can find help here, though sometimes it takes awhile to find someone who knows the answer. Good luck, and enjoy.

 

Here is a good place to learn. If you need tech advice on TBIs go to that board. Ask the questions and there's at least one person who knows it step by step.

$800 for the TBI is the equivilent of .5 second. Get a good exhaust (I went with SLP for their great flow and low rumble $300-350), Get an open element (summit has a 14x3 open element for less than $23). If you have a posi rear, get a set of 3.73s from richmond gears. I forget what I paid for the ring and pinion, but the indestructable rear I built cost me $500 for an entirely new rear, new axles, istallation of the gears, paint, sanding equip etc. Then do a thermostat. Some people say 160 like me, and others say 180. If you use a 160, you should put in a manual switch. The stat should be about $10 and the switch like $2 from pepboys or somewhere like that.

If you need help with anything email me and I'll see what I can do.

------------------
Member of the Jersey F-body Association (JFA)

1989 Camaro Convertible RS
dark silver w/black top
305tbi, auto, 3.73 posi
SLP exhaust, 16x8 black GTA Crosslace Rims
Check out Phil's Rice Boy Page

 

with what it sounds like it's gonna cost to get any speed into this engine, should I just save up and invest in TPI? Also...if I were to get a TPI setup what all would I need to get?

 

Where do u learn?? ThirdGen.Org!! Also doing stuff yourself. Yes TPI would make more power, 91Z knows because be did a swap and it was better, maybe he'll see this post.


------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited July 16, 2001).]

 

If you're really tight on money, TPI isn't the way to go. Everything about it costs bucks (that's why my TBI car has many times more mods than my TPI car!). Although there is definitely a greater availability of parts for TPI cars. If you can't afford a Helms manual ($80!), then Chiltons is the next best bet, as it explains theories of operation unlike the Haynes. I have both (one each came with various cars I've had), but wouldn't ever buy either, since they're a waste of money for someone who has a pretty good idea of what to do; just need illustrations.

If you wanna learn, you gotta do the work. It's one thing to read (here, books, magazines, whatever.), but until you actually do something, you won't know for sure what's involved.

Don't be afraid to do something. As long as you start small, you should be fine. Think of some things your car needs or is close to needing, and try it.

One last thing: Take everything you read here with a grain of salt. There are some pretty knowledgable people here, but there are WAY more people here who don't know what they're doing and post replies only knowing secondhand knowledge or what they themselves have read here. I've done every imaginable repair on thirdgens, but there are still a couple things I haven't touched, and if someone asks, I won't say anything I don't know from experience (like air conditioning, forced induction, body work, etc.) Sometimes, I can't believe my eyes when I read some of the misinformation that I read here (example: like when someone asked if there's a light under the shift pattern and someone replied "no". If they'd ever taken that part of the car apart, they'd have noticed that there is indeed one there.)

PS. for your car, rear gears and exhaust is going to be the biggest kick in the pants for your budget (unless you feel confident enough to do a cam swap).

 

If your in no hurry, find a good block.. and take your time with it. You might not be able to put it together yourself, but I'm sure there's a speed shop / machine shop that is more than willing to help. Once you get a block, you can piece it together. This is actually the way I'd like to do mine... but I spent 5000 on paint job. So sort of broke. I would strongly recommed getting a 350. I know there are alot of people on this board (well, thirdgen.org...not this board) that would have a 305 and no other way. However, it's much much easier to go faster with a 350. And well... there's always the bottle. That'll win most races.

------------------
91 Z28
Best Time Slip:
60' - 2.098
1/8 - 9.137 , MPH - 76.21
1/4 - 14.213, MPH - 97.55

Mods: SLP Exhaust, umm...nothing else..sorry

Stereo: Alpine 855, Infinity Kappas all around, Infinity 150x2 amp (POS), Infinity Perfect 10 in hatch.

Webpage coming soon.

 

BTW, I consider myself quite stupid in the subject of cars. I rarely work on them, but I do research them quite often. Just read the boards here, as well as the tech articles. Any questions you might have probably already been answered... just use the search funtion.

------------------
91 Z28
Best Time Slip:
60' - 2.098
1/8 - 9.137 , MPH - 76.21
1/4 - 14.213, MPH - 97.55

Mods: SLP Exhaust, umm...nothing else..sorry

Stereo: Alpine 855, Infinity Kappas all around, Infinity 150x2 amp (POS), Infinity Perfect 10 in hatch.

Webpage coming soon.

 

Thirdgen.org is your biggest source, then comes chiltons because you have pictures there.

listen to the guys when they answer the questions you can see whose blowing steam, and a load of bull honkey, but others can help you get thru, typicaly your going to find, everything, has been done before almost, so if you have a prob, (such as having a 305TBI) you can mosey on over to "motor swap" and see what they say. (91 pont firebird, 305 TBI) ive saved myself, ALLLLLOT of money doing everything myself, and it is my daily driver,

what youll do, is Exaust first. because you figure, hell, maybe one day ill swap my engine.
Adjust your TV Cable, theres a Tech article on this, it might be a pain to understand, but when you get it it helps.
TUNE UP!!!!!!! dont neglect it, start with that.
Headers, imagine riding a bike breathing thru a straw, then upgrade it to a paper towel roll.
What others say:
Shift Kit.
Gears,
open Diff. (right now you have posi, (one tire spins)
umm.... too tired, cant tink, others will help, go to the TBI board, all you need.

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback, Fourth Gen Console. i have six cupholders. all for starbucks!
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap
God Created The Earth, And Then Turned Up The Bass
F-Body Meeting, Naperville IL, Chicago Ave and Washington. July 27, 8:00ish.

Part Search, I NEED A Harness For A Radiator fan, THANX

 

im sorry, i meant, if you change your 'Xaust, you get a Increase, but some of the mods you do, will be able to swap over onto the next engine if you go that route.

 

IF you're a beginner (like me) and don't know where half the parts the manual talks about are found in the engine, the best thing to do is a complete tune up (even the Haynes gives simple instructions on that). Not only will this familiarize you with many of the parts but this is a must before you start modding your car casue otherwise you will not get the full effect.

 

I believe he meant that right now you most likely have an open differential. That means that when you hit the gas, only one wheel is driving the car forward. Positraction or Posi, is when both drive wheels spin at the same time.

In our cars there is an option for a limited slip differential. That means when you are going in a straight line, both drive wheels will be spinning at the same rate. When you go around a corner for example, the posi will disengage and allow the rear wheels to spin at different rates.

Easiest way to determine this. Jack the back of the car until the drive wheels are off the ground. Spin one wheel if the other drive wheel spins in the same direction, then it is Posi or LSD. If it spins opposite, then its open.

 

If you want to learn more I would definately start reading all the posts on here you can. Like others said, some things may not be true but there is always someone replying to set it straight. When I first came to this site I hardly knew didly about cars besides the different engines there were. But I have learned many things on here that people I know don't even know (and they have built dozens of engines and been through dozens of cars) . So just stick around and read and reply and always post a topic they you need help on.

------------------
'86 IROC
T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK TES HEADERS
FLOWMASTER, NO CAT
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
160* Stat
2:73 GEARS
Rebuilt 700R4, with manual valve body
B&M Megashifter
Soon to be installed
3:73 Richmond Gears and 3" Hooker Aero Chamber
15.61@ 95.2mph G-Teched, need tranny work
"There is nothing more addicting than speed"

 

Get a GM Dealership service manaul for it. Those are usually as thick as a phone book and for the year and car spefic. I had one for my 1979 Cutlass, and just found one for my 1989 RS Camaro. Except to pay aroun 29.00 bucks.

Another great way to learn is go down to your local GM dealership or vechial plant and apply for a job. You will get good training and learn alot.

[This message has been edited by un4givin89 (edited July 16, 2001).]

 

THanx 89Rag!


LoL... i can never remember....
hey, whatcha think of this for 300$
. \
"Its the stock 10 bolt rearend from a 97 z28.
Stock axles, studs and ABS rings. Not much else to it really. Just bolts
right up. "3.23 Gear

Thnx, no one responds to me

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback, Fourth Gen Console. i have six cupholders. all for starbucks!
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap
God Created The Earth, And Then Turned Up The Bass
F-Body Meeting, Naperville IL, Chicago Ave and Washington. July 27, 8:00ish.

Part Search, I NEED A Harness For A Radiator fan, THANX

 

Spend a lot of time on these message boards, pick up books at the library, bookstore, etc, check in to various magazines. Chevy High Performance, Car Craft, GM High Tech Performance, and occasionaly Hot Rod are great sources of information. While, I've learned a lot from reading everything about cars I can get my hands on, nothing beats having someone that knows what they're doing help you. Make friends with local mechanics and hang around their shops if they'll let you. Find out where your local street racers hang out and make friends with them. Join a car club if there is one around. I talk to anybody and everybody about cars. If a friend is working on his car, help him out even if all you do is have him point bolts out and say undo that nut, that nut, and that nut. Ask what each part is and what it does. Before starting any work on your car take careful note of where everything is bolted, hooked up. Take pictures or make sketches if necessary. Label parts when you take them off and organize them with their bolts. When I started working on cars, I couldn't change my oil and the first time I changed my spark plugs, it took over an hour. Now, two years later, I can change my plugs in 15 minutes or less, and I've done an engine swap.

------------------
82 Camaro:
350
Erson cam, ported heads,Comp Cams 1.6:1 rocker arms
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 600
Crane Hi-6 ignition, Accel supercoil
TH350 tranny with 2500 stall.
Eibach Pro Kit
SLP 1 3/4" headers

 

...and both will argue their position.

 

Most ang for the buck is Nitrous, but I would recommend because of your age and the fact when I was 16 I would srpay all day long if I had it to get a nice set of headers anda nice cat back and High flow converter. Also consider a nice tune up, plugs wires, cap, rotor, coil, ect.... I elarned most of my stuff from the old guys who have had them for so long. I also went to the drag strip and walked the pits, asked questions watched runs, seen what worked for others.

 

Good deal, but I'll tell you, 3.73s are bada$$ gears for the TBI. The shift from first to second is so hard in my car, it lays down tracks while it slams the car sideways. Great fun.

 

this is the greatest site for camaros ever.

i have never used a manual, and i dont plan on it. soon.

i come here look through almost all the posts and i have learned soo much. look thought tech also.

just be calm dont rush and everything will be ok when working on your beast.




------------------
Jarrad
1990 IROC-Z L98 350 TPI
TH-700R4
G92- 9 Bolt Borg-Warner 3.27gears
Bright Red Hardtop/ Grey Interior


DAILY DRIVER: 1991 GREY S10 2.5L/5SPD -FOR SALE.

 

If you want to find a real source of information about our cars on the internet, is a little place called, The Best Damn Garage on the Net. The amount of information that is there is borderline rediculous! And all the information there is geared towards newbies like us. Check it out..

http://www.racer-x.f2s.com/

------------------
Third Gen Project
1989 305 tbi Camaro RS Red/Red
Ram Air II Hood
Centerline Champ 500 Rims
Edelbrock Open Element
MacEwen White Faced Guages

"Stock?! Theres nothing "stock" about a stock car."

 

That person really has to update his site. the TA Tribe has been gone for almost a year now and a large number of the manufacturer links he has don't work.

The info is great for a beginner.

 

Do you know how I learned? I read as many books as I could possibly get my hands on. You start learning the basics, what parts are called, what parts do, how an engine works, just the basics, then you get into more detail as you go. Go buy some books. Here are a few I have that helped me learn:
Small-Bloch Chevy Performance, How to Tune and Modify Your Camaro 1982-1998, How to Tune and Modify Chevrolet Fuel Injecion, Chevy TPI Fuel Injection Swappers Guide, just to name a few. And if you know somebodt in your family or a neighbor or something that has worked on cars and has a general knowledge of mechanics talk to them cause you can learn alot from other people. And if you have a question, dont hesitate to ask somebody here cause most people here will be more than happy to help you out even with the dumbest question. But the best way to learn is to pick up the wrench and learn in the driveway. Trial and error ya know? Even if you mess something up you can still have fun doing it. (Even though it might cost you more money in the long run) But just read some books and talk to some people and you'll be on your way!

------------------
91 Camaro RS - Black with red tweed - t-tops - 700 watt sound system - 14x3 open element - 80 Series Flowmaster - muffler turndowns - Poly transmission mount - Future 12 second street car

88 TransAm GTA - WS6 - red with grey cloth - K&N Filters - TPIS Airfoil - Wonder Bar - Future Restoration

 

Time. In time , you'll know most, but not all, that you need. The best way to learn, and can also be the worst, is when something breaks and you have to fix it. The "School of Hard Knocks" really does work, but also never ends. Sorry to sound so vague and zen-like, but I long for the days when I knew less and always got carded. Enjoy your car, and it'll come.

------------------
90 TBI 305 Formula
Original Owner
Auto Trans, T-Tops
Completely Stock Except:
--Flow Cooler water pump
--180 T-stat

 

90 Formula is right. The "School of Hard Knocks" is the best teacher, especially on a daily driver. When you HAVE to fix the car by morning and you have limited funds, you would be surprised what you CAN LEARN and DO in a short period of time. BUY the Factory service manual from Helms Inc. That is where Chilton and Haynes get their diagrams and directions from. Think of Chilton and Haynes as the abridged versions of the service manual.

 

Awwww, poor thing. You remind me of myself 6 months ago. I too have a 92 Firebird, 305 TBI. Although its easy to modify, its costly, and people say not worth it.

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird
- 305ci V8 TBI / Automatic Trans / Loaded
- MODS: Edelbrock 14x3 Open Element Air Cleaner, Dual outlet exhaust
1985 Chevy Z28
- 350ci V8 TPI / Automatic Trans / Paid $200 for it
- In the process of restoration!