if they were built today.....
07-12-2012, 11:30 PM
#1
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Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 5.7L 350CI L98
Transmission: 700R4
if they were built today.....
so i was reading the new camaro performance magazine and the whole write up on why they never show third gens and then there was a whole backlash from us third genners lol (gotta love us)
and i read one line from the editor that really caught me and he said...if more of us thought outside the box then our cars would be worthy of more magazines...
so i got the hamster back on the wheel and started thinkin outside the box and thought what would i do to my gta that would be outside the box
so i thought maybe it would be cool if i took my work in progress gta and gave it a look to where people would believe it was a car from today
what came to my mind so far is...
1.led taillights and marker lights
2.hid headlamps and angel eye fogs
3.upgrade the suspension and shocks to a more comfy ride and subframe for less rattle
4.ambient lighting on the floors
5.navigation unit
thats all i got let me know what you guys got!!!
and i read one line from the editor that really caught me and he said...if more of us thought outside the box then our cars would be worthy of more magazines...
so i got the hamster back on the wheel and started thinkin outside the box and thought what would i do to my gta that would be outside the box
so i thought maybe it would be cool if i took my work in progress gta and gave it a look to where people would believe it was a car from today
what came to my mind so far is...
1.led taillights and marker lights
2.hid headlamps and angel eye fogs
3.upgrade the suspension and shocks to a more comfy ride and subframe for less rattle
4.ambient lighting on the floors
5.navigation unit
thats all i got let me know what you guys got!!!
07-12-2012, 11:37 PM
#2
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Car: 1991 firebird GTA
Engine: 305 tpi
Transmission: 5spd
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: if they were built today.....
All leather interior. Electric everything. Tach speedo everything. seats electric windows. fiberglass shell maybe? I agree on the shocks, but no one is gonna look underneath your car unless you mention it. And to modernize it I'd for sure install a nav system.
07-13-2012, 06:45 AM
#3
Re: if they were built today.....
One thing that I plan on doing is having the stock GTA wheels replicated in sizes 18x9 for the front and 18x10.5 for the rear. I've already had a lengthy discussion with the company that'll be doing the work.
http://evodwheels.com/wheels/
http://evodwheels.com/wheels/
07-13-2012, 07:28 AM
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Car: 1992 Camaro z28
Engine: 350 HSR
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42's
Re: if they were built today.....
O thats easy!!
1. redo the whole car in fiberglass and plastic
2. Gotta make the car 3x bigger then it is, you have to be able to run 20" wheels and make them look like 16" wheels in the wheels wells.
3. Gotta add alot more weight to it.... safety reasons
4. now add a 450hp motor to haul all that around decent
LOL J/K
Me personally
1. Headlight & Taillights - there nice to me but date the car back.
2. Electric everything in the interior
3. molded door panels - Wish we all atleast had those molded gta panels, or some 4th gen ones.
4. flush door handles. like the square type I see some people use.
5. Bigger wheels if you already dont have them, atleast a nice 17" wheel.
1. redo the whole car in fiberglass and plastic
2. Gotta make the car 3x bigger then it is, you have to be able to run 20" wheels and make them look like 16" wheels in the wheels wells.
3. Gotta add alot more weight to it.... safety reasons
4. now add a 450hp motor to haul all that around decent
LOL J/K
Me personally
1. Headlight & Taillights - there nice to me but date the car back.
2. Electric everything in the interior
3. molded door panels - Wish we all atleast had those molded gta panels, or some 4th gen ones.
4. flush door handles. like the square type I see some people use.
5. Bigger wheels if you already dont have them, atleast a nice 17" wheel.
07-13-2012, 08:35 AM
#6
Re: if they were built today.....
The new 5th gens are absolutely horrible, I hate them with every ounce of my being. They should pull the engine and trans out of each one at the end of the assembly line and throw the rest of the car in the dumpster.
As Abubaca said, build the car you want, don't try to transform your car into something it's not. Using new tech to mod your car is awesome, but don't do it to make it more like the latest garbage heap from GM. The 5th Gen is certainly NOT a goal I'd be targeting for anything....
As Abubaca said, build the car you want, don't try to transform your car into something it's not. Using new tech to mod your car is awesome, but don't do it to make it more like the latest garbage heap from GM. The 5th Gen is certainly NOT a goal I'd be targeting for anything....
07-13-2012, 08:51 AM
#7
Re: if they were built today.....
so i was reading the new camaro performance magazine and the whole write up on why they never show third gens and then there was a whole backlash from us third genners lol (gotta love us)
and i read one line from the editor that really caught me and he said...if more of us thought outside the box then our cars would be worthy of more magazines...
so i got the hamster back on the wheel and started thinkin outside the box and thought what would i do to my gta that would be outside the box
so i thought maybe it would be cool if i took my work in progress gta and gave it a look to where people would believe it was a car from today
what came to my mind so far is...
1.led taillights and marker lights
2.hid headlamps and angel eye fogs
3.upgrade the suspension and shocks to a more comfy ride and subframe for less rattle
4.ambient lighting on the floors
5.navigation unit
thats all i got let me know what you guys got!!!
and i read one line from the editor that really caught me and he said...if more of us thought outside the box then our cars would be worthy of more magazines...
so i got the hamster back on the wheel and started thinkin outside the box and thought what would i do to my gta that would be outside the box
so i thought maybe it would be cool if i took my work in progress gta and gave it a look to where people would believe it was a car from today
what came to my mind so far is...
1.led taillights and marker lights
2.hid headlamps and angel eye fogs
3.upgrade the suspension and shocks to a more comfy ride and subframe for less rattle
4.ambient lighting on the floors
5.navigation unit
thats all i got let me know what you guys got!!!
- LED Tail lights? Check, found those on 50 other factory cars.
- HID Headlamps? Check, option on just about every factory car out there.
- Ambient Lighting on the floors. Check, yet again, all newer cars offer this.
- Navigation unit. Check, pretty much standard on any luxury car.
Yep, sure as can be, all of those features above are IN the box, not out of it.
And out of the box feature would be the new 1LE camaro being offered without AC, without carpet, without any creature comforts to strip as much weight out of it as possible. But wait, we can't have that now. The Camaro SSX at Sema embodied that concept, a factory prepped road race car. http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/02/s...ck-day-dreams/
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07-13-2012, 09:14 AM
#8
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Car: 89 Iroc
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Re: if they were built today.....
I agree with Thirdgen89GTA. Outside the box is what 1MeanZ did, IRS. To me magazines show the cars that cost the most money, not all of the time, but the majority of the time. If you want to drop an LSX, twin turbo, Tremec 6 spd, IRS, expensive race seats, 3 piece wheels, all new electronics, tublar suspension, $30K paint, carbon fiber body parts, then you might get into a magazine. To be honest, that is going to be a very small portion of the 3rd gen crowd. That is why they are not being shown. Our cars are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are too new to be classic and they are too old to be new. The aftermarket is not overflowed with "cool" parts and with the cost of the car in the $500-$5000 range most don't want to drop, or even have, the real coin needed to build an out of the world car that the magazines want.
Build the car to your specs, not the magazines. If they want to do an article on you then, good for you.
Build the car to your specs, not the magazines. If they want to do an article on you then, good for you.
07-13-2012, 09:23 AM
#9
Re: if they were built today.....
Our cars are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are too new to be classic and they are too old to be new. The aftermarket is not overflowed with "cool" parts and with the cost of the car in the $500-$5000 range most don't want to drop, or even have, the real coin needed to build an out of the world car that the magazines want.
Whatever. I don't care. Really.
07-13-2012, 09:55 AM
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Car: 1987 T/A WS6 T-Tops/92 RS
Engine: LB9/3.1
Transmission: 700R4/700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73/3.23
Re: if they were built today.....
Forget what that guys says and keep your car the way you like it. I like a stock looking 3rd gen with maybe some nice wheels and dropped, but over all stock looking. The 5th gens have growen on me a tad, but over all I don't like them-would take a new Stang over one 1000 times over-hell even a challenger.
07-13-2012, 11:24 AM
#11
Re: if they were built today.....
For the record, I just checked the Camaro Performers site, and it appears there's a silver Iroc featured, and it's hardly "outside the box". I mean I'm glad it's featured, and it's a nice ride, but nothing overly note worthy. I dunno, I was glad it was in there. ...and an article on Thirdgen suspension too. Not bad, not bad. I like it.
07-13-2012, 12:45 PM
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Car: '85 Z28
Engine: 350
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Re: if they were built today.....
Who cares what other people think? Build your car for you, not someone else.
07-13-2012, 12:53 PM
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Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 5.7L 350CI L98
Transmission: 700R4
Re: if they were built today.....
I think some of you guys misunderstood me lol I'm not saying I wanna do this to my car I'm sayin if I ha to think outside the box this is what I came up with lol and wanted to hear your guys idea
Although the led taillights are deff getting done
But I think we all missed an obvious one and that's better material plastic not that cheap plastic crap lol and deff a better invention than the hatch pull down motor
Although the led taillights are deff getting done
But I think we all missed an obvious one and that's better material plastic not that cheap plastic crap lol and deff a better invention than the hatch pull down motor
07-13-2012, 01:06 PM
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Car: 1991 Z28 convertible built 3/1/1990
Engine: Cammed 6.0L LSX
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: custom Ford 8.8", 4.10 gears
Re: if they were built today.....
If they were built today the engine options would probably be an LS3, turbo Ecotec, and a base ecotec.
07-13-2012, 01:07 PM
#15
Re: if they were built today.....
Thirdgens will never be considered a "classic" until all the old farts who were already OLD when the thirdgen was NEW die off.
Because the car was new when they were old, its not "classic" and never will be. That is what I've come to realize over the years in talking with the average person at cruise nights.
As for what is out of the box?
A LT5 swap is out of the box. Fallen2603's Ecotec swap is an out of the box car. So is 1MeanZ's C4 IRS swap.
There are may others on this site as well, some of them have been ROTM recently.
If "out of the box" means stuff like having to install a 42" LCD on the bottom of my car ala Pimp My Ride, then i'd rather stay IN the box and never leave it.
Because the car was new when they were old, its not "classic" and never will be. That is what I've come to realize over the years in talking with the average person at cruise nights.
As for what is out of the box?
A LT5 swap is out of the box. Fallen2603's Ecotec swap is an out of the box car. So is 1MeanZ's C4 IRS swap.
There are may others on this site as well, some of them have been ROTM recently.
If "out of the box" means stuff like having to install a 42" LCD on the bottom of my car ala Pimp My Ride, then i'd rather stay IN the box and never leave it.
07-13-2012, 01:09 PM
#16
Re: if they were built today.....
I'd be more tempted to toss the new 3.6L LLT DOHC V6 into a thirdgen though with mods. If it were in my reach as far as cost and ability I'd do it. Combined with a 6spd aisin it would be fun. Fast and light. Great for Auto-X.
07-13-2012, 01:24 PM
#17
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Car: 92 Camaro Z
Engine: 350
Transmission: Built TH350 with 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 4th gen, 4.10
Re: if they were built today.....
im not sure that article makes sense. a 1st or 2nd gen owner would be criticized for modifying the car but a 3rd gen owner is criticezed for not modifying it.
Failed logic!
Failed logic!
07-13-2012, 01:46 PM
#18
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Car: 92 Firebird, 91 GTA
Engine: 305 TBI, 350 TPI, * LS1 (Building)
Re: if they were built today.....
almost all of the previously menitioned "New age" equipment I have plans to do in the future. minus the Nav, and ambient lighting. I absolutlely fell in love with those Lingenfelter 2piece LED sequentials. there gorgeous! i wish someone would replicate them cause I would be all over it. also love the aftermarket digital dash. and as far as replicating the GTA's in 18's...THANK YOU! I have been wondering if anyone could do that for years. I also emailed them to see if it could been done and a cost. trying to find a nice fat 16 is ridiculous.
07-13-2012, 02:15 PM
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Re: if they were built today.....
Lets be honest here guys, thirdgens came out during a dark period of GM performance and will always be associated as such. This was the almost exact same topic discussed back when I joined. Were never going to get the respect, credit, or acceptance that most of us feel we rightfully deserve. The sooner we accept it and stop purchasing that trash magazine Camaro Performers the better off we will be.
07-13-2012, 02:21 PM
#20
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Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 5.7L 350CI L98
Transmission: 700R4
Re: if they were built today.....
Ugh I hate 5th genners no offense to any on here but some of these guys don't care for the history at all two years ago when I had my iroc one pulled up to me and then asked me what kinda car I had...I just looked at him and said u shldnt be driving that car if u have to ask lol
I was annoyed at the article but loved all the **** we gave the editor shows the third gen Fam is big an loud....
I was annoyed at the article but loved all the **** we gave the editor shows the third gen Fam is big an loud....
07-13-2012, 02:24 PM
#21
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Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
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Re: if they were built today.....
It was the same exact way when the 4th gens were in their hayday. Thirdgen owners were always outsiders.
Lets be honest here guys, thirdgens came out during a dark period of GM performance and will always be associated as such. This was the almost exact same topic discussed back when I joined. Were never going to get the respect, credit, or acceptance that most of us feel we rightfully deserve. The sooner we accept it and stop purchasing that trash magazine Camaro Performers the better off we will be.
Lets be honest here guys, thirdgens came out during a dark period of GM performance and will always be associated as such. This was the almost exact same topic discussed back when I joined. Were never going to get the respect, credit, or acceptance that most of us feel we rightfully deserve. The sooner we accept it and stop purchasing that trash magazine Camaro Performers the better off we will be.
We came a long way in the 80s with these cars especially the gta and tta
07-13-2012, 02:36 PM
#22
Re: if they were built today.....
It was the same exact way when the 4th gens were in their hayday. Thirdgen owners were always outsiders.
...Heck even GM admitted that for the 5th gen, they wanted to change the image. That's part of why they deleted the t tops. They wanted to get away from us, the loser red ne ck, white trash Iroc and Bandit TA crowd and go after the Beamer/Corvette crowd. I don't think they used those adjectives exactly, but you know what I mean!!!!!! That came straight from Scott Settlemire during G10 in Atlanta. He said that was part of how they were gonna market the car. Well, they succeeded. ...and quite frankly, it's a nice car. if it had 4 doors they coulda called it a Chevelle and I woulda loved it. It's just SOOOO far from pony car. Anyway....nother debate for another thread I guess.
07-13-2012, 03:15 PM
#23
Re: if they were built today.....
It was the same exact way when the 4th gens were in their hayday. Thirdgen owners were always outsiders.
Lets be honest here guys, thirdgens came out during a dark period of GM performance and will always be associated as such. This was the almost exact same topic discussed back when I joined. Were never going to get the respect, credit, or acceptance that most of us feel we rightfully deserve. The sooner we accept it and stop purchasing that trash magazine Camaro Performers the better off we will be.
Lets be honest here guys, thirdgens came out during a dark period of GM performance and will always be associated as such. This was the almost exact same topic discussed back when I joined. Were never going to get the respect, credit, or acceptance that most of us feel we rightfully deserve. The sooner we accept it and stop purchasing that trash magazine Camaro Performers the better off we will be.
The thirdgen also introduced fuel injection, overdrive trannys, 16" wheels etc.
Ugh I hate 5th genners no offense to any on here but some of these guys don't care for the history at all two years ago when I had my iroc one pulled up to me and then asked me what kinda car I had...I just looked at him and said u shldnt be driving that car if u have to ask lol
I was annoyed at the article but loved all the **** we gave the editor shows the third gen Fam is big an loud....
I was annoyed at the article but loved all the **** we gave the editor shows the third gen Fam is big an loud....
07-13-2012, 05:54 PM
#24
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Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
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Re: if they were built today.....
It's funny when u look at some 5th gen forums anytime a third gen camaro is mentioned they automatically mention the dumb stereotypes that come along with third gen...that's why I don't care for there community or the cars themselves they have no character and now that there focusing on making it a true global car there just gonna get worse and worse
07-13-2012, 06:03 PM
#25
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Re: if they were built today.....
This is what id imagine some modern headlights would look like
Just seems like a 'must' for me!
Just seems like a 'must' for me!
Last edited by 88blackiroc; 07-13-2012 at 06:06 PM.
07-13-2012, 06:37 PM
#26
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Car: 1989 Iroc-Z Camaro
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Re: if they were built today.....
Double Post
Last edited by Ron U.S.M.C.; 07-13-2012 at 07:47 PM.
07-13-2012, 07:46 PM
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Car: 1989 Iroc-Z Camaro
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Re: if they were built today.....
I know your focusing on your car getting in a magazine, but unless you have the money and time to devote your self to the project it usually takes time to build/add/or fix our cars. Might we consider using the existing cars on our site. You've seen them primarily in the COTM competition ( best Camaro of the month)we are running right now. Compile some of the competition in that and submit it to the magazine.If you don't get a positive reaction from them then I don't think there worth much. If they cant see even one of our cars worthy of entry I feel sorry for them. If that's the case than I think they need a new owner and staff.
Since the newer 5th Gen. has been mentioned I though I would give my view on it...
I love my Camaro, and the main reason is that I have put my sweat and blood in to it. That IMO is why some of us become so attached. What I see when I look at a 5th Gen.is a guy that will basically never turn a wrench. At least not on that car. Most guys Ive talked to that have worked on early model engines wont touch a 5th . Can you blame them . Just take a look at one and I'm pretty sure most of us would agree.
Since the newer 5th Gen. has been mentioned I though I would give my view on it...
I love my Camaro, and the main reason is that I have put my sweat and blood in to it. That IMO is why some of us become so attached. What I see when I look at a 5th Gen.is a guy that will basically never turn a wrench. At least not on that car. Most guys Ive talked to that have worked on early model engines wont touch a 5th . Can you blame them . Just take a look at one and I'm pretty sure most of us would agree.
Last edited by Ron U.S.M.C.; 07-13-2012 at 07:53 PM.
07-13-2012, 07:49 PM
#28
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Re: if they were built today.....
Im going to reinterate what I said earlier. I think you guys are too worried about what a small, insignificant magazine thinks about our cars. Ive stopped purchasing their magazine due to the poor content. If they want to exclusively cater to 1st, 4th and 5th gen camaros, let them. Speak with your dollar, not with your letters. Especially when this has been going on forever. Theyre not going to change no matter how much grief you give them. Cut their revenues down and change will occur.
Quick story, Blizzard (Makers of WoW) tried to implement a system a year or so back called "RealID." Basically you have your real name on your friends list, and no matter what character youre on, your friends can see you and chat. Great idea right? No. They had two huge privacy issues. 1st was friends of friends could see your name and account info. 2nd was to resolve any issues they forced you to goto their official forums....which posted your personal information.
This change was REQUIRED to keep playing. People complained, emailed, nothing worked. They implemented it anyways. There was only 2 things that stopped it. 1st was people started taking all the employees at Blizzard and posted their personal information based on just their name. Family, address, where their kids went to school, etc etc.
The 2nd, which is where I come to the point of story, is they reportedly lost 1 MILLION subscribers within a span of a week.
The people spoke with money (and stalking) and they listened and changed.
Why do 3 model year first gens get all the accolades? Only thing I can think of is they were still available with big blocks and thus given respect. As for the 4th gens, that was the first body style that the regular Z28 and T/A kicked the crap out of the mustangs with no argument where as the 3rd gens were usually picked on by the mustangs. I know the L98 was able to beat the mustang in a 1/4 mile and all, but most 3rd gens didnt come with a L98.
(Im going to talk about V8's here, completely ignoring the V6 for this part.) I donno about you guys, but when you mention a 3rd gen to people, they dont think of a L98. They think of L03's and LB9's at best. Its associated with a 305.
Mention a 4th gen to people, they immediately associate with the LT1 or LS1's. Two engines that during their time were dominant.
Not down in Miami. SFFBA (South Florida F Body Assoc) a club that no longer exists should have been called "South Florida Fourth Body Assoc" We were losers to them and couldnt understand why we didnt have 4th gens. As much as I love the 4th gen powertrain, I couldnt bring myself to own one from the pent up hatred I have towards the owners.
Quick story, Blizzard (Makers of WoW) tried to implement a system a year or so back called "RealID." Basically you have your real name on your friends list, and no matter what character youre on, your friends can see you and chat. Great idea right? No. They had two huge privacy issues. 1st was friends of friends could see your name and account info. 2nd was to resolve any issues they forced you to goto their official forums....which posted your personal information.
This change was REQUIRED to keep playing. People complained, emailed, nothing worked. They implemented it anyways. There was only 2 things that stopped it. 1st was people started taking all the employees at Blizzard and posted their personal information based on just their name. Family, address, where their kids went to school, etc etc.
The 2nd, which is where I come to the point of story, is they reportedly lost 1 MILLION subscribers within a span of a week.
The people spoke with money (and stalking) and they listened and changed.
I see what your saying but then y do second gens get respect? Why does three years 70-73 make them better than us....74-81 was just big heavy cars with goofy decals...I'm sorry but if it weren't for the third gen technology and forward thinkin the fourth gen would suck terribly
We came a long way in the 80s with these cars especially the gta and tta
We came a long way in the 80s with these cars especially the gta and tta
(Im going to talk about V8's here, completely ignoring the V6 for this part.) I donno about you guys, but when you mention a 3rd gen to people, they dont think of a L98. They think of L03's and LB9's at best. Its associated with a 305.
Mention a 4th gen to people, they immediately associate with the LT1 or LS1's. Two engines that during their time were dominant.
Oh I definitely don't remember it that way. Not up in Jersey, where I was at the time, and not down in NC during the "mid" and late 90s. Sure, they were the popular, hot ticket, and they obviously got the press, but they were still F bodies, and in the "community" so to speak, those 4th gen owners knew the heritage.
07-13-2012, 08:50 PM
#29
Re: if they were built today.....
Im going to reinterate what I said earlier. I think you guys are too worried about what a small, insignificant magazine thinks about our cars. Ive stopped purchasing their magazine due to the poor content. If they want to exclusively cater to 1st, 4th and 5th gen camaros, let them. Speak with your dollar, not with your letters. Especially when this has been going on forever. Theyre not going to change no matter how much grief you give them. Cut their revenues down and change will occur.
Quick story, Blizzard (Makers of WoW) tried to implement a system a year or so back called "RealID." Basically you have your real name on your friends list, and no matter what character youre on, your friends can see you and chat. Great idea right? No. They had two huge privacy issues. 1st was friends of friends could see your name and account info. 2nd was to resolve any issues they forced you to goto their official forums....which posted your personal information.
This change was REQUIRED to keep playing. People complained, emailed, nothing worked. They implemented it anyways. There was only 2 things that stopped it. 1st was people started taking all the employees at Blizzard and posted their personal information based on just their name. Family, address, where their kids went to school, etc etc.
The 2nd, which is where I come to the point of story, is they reportedly lost 1 MILLION subscribers within a span of a week.
The people spoke with money (and stalking) and they listened and changed.
Why do 3 model year first gens get all the accolades? Only thing I can think of is they were still available with big blocks and thus given respect. As for the 4th gens, that was the first body style that the regular Z28 and T/A kicked the crap out of the mustangs with no argument where as the 3rd gens were usually picked on by the mustangs. I know the L98 was able to beat the mustang in a 1/4 mile and all, but most 3rd gens didnt come with a L98.
(Im going to talk about V8's here, completely ignoring the V6 for this part.) I donno about you guys, but when you mention a 3rd gen to people, they dont think of a L98. They think of L03's and LB9's at best. Its associated with a 305.
Mention a 4th gen to people, they immediately associate with the LT1 or LS1's. Two engines that during their time were dominant.
Not down in Miami. SFFBA (South Florida F Body Assoc) a club that no longer exists should have been called "South Florida Fourth Body Assoc" We were losers to them and couldnt understand why we didnt have 4th gens. As much as I love the 4th gen powertrain, I couldnt bring myself to own one from the pent up hatred I have towards the owners.
Quick story, Blizzard (Makers of WoW) tried to implement a system a year or so back called "RealID." Basically you have your real name on your friends list, and no matter what character youre on, your friends can see you and chat. Great idea right? No. They had two huge privacy issues. 1st was friends of friends could see your name and account info. 2nd was to resolve any issues they forced you to goto their official forums....which posted your personal information.
This change was REQUIRED to keep playing. People complained, emailed, nothing worked. They implemented it anyways. There was only 2 things that stopped it. 1st was people started taking all the employees at Blizzard and posted their personal information based on just their name. Family, address, where their kids went to school, etc etc.
The 2nd, which is where I come to the point of story, is they reportedly lost 1 MILLION subscribers within a span of a week.
The people spoke with money (and stalking) and they listened and changed.
Why do 3 model year first gens get all the accolades? Only thing I can think of is they were still available with big blocks and thus given respect. As for the 4th gens, that was the first body style that the regular Z28 and T/A kicked the crap out of the mustangs with no argument where as the 3rd gens were usually picked on by the mustangs. I know the L98 was able to beat the mustang in a 1/4 mile and all, but most 3rd gens didnt come with a L98.
(Im going to talk about V8's here, completely ignoring the V6 for this part.) I donno about you guys, but when you mention a 3rd gen to people, they dont think of a L98. They think of L03's and LB9's at best. Its associated with a 305.
Mention a 4th gen to people, they immediately associate with the LT1 or LS1's. Two engines that during their time were dominant.
Not down in Miami. SFFBA (South Florida F Body Assoc) a club that no longer exists should have been called "South Florida Fourth Body Assoc" We were losers to them and couldnt understand why we didnt have 4th gens. As much as I love the 4th gen powertrain, I couldnt bring myself to own one from the pent up hatred I have towards the owners.
Can go the other way too. Too many people only halfway in the know have walked up to me and my car at cruise nights and asked if it was a TTA. Because its white, and it has the GTA badges which are in the same location as the TTAs for the most part.
07-13-2012, 09:22 PM
#30
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Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 5.7L 350CI L98
Transmission: 700R4
Re: if they were built today.....
Im going to reinterate what I said earlier. I think you guys are too worried about what a small, insignificant magazine thinks about our cars. Ive stopped purchasing their magazine due to the poor content. If they want to exclusively cater to 1st, 4th and 5th gen camaros, let them. Speak with your dollar, not with your letters. Especially when this has been going on forever. Theyre not going to change no matter how much grief you give them. Cut their revenues down and change will occur.
Quick story, Blizzard (Makers of WoW) tried to implement a system a year or so back called "RealID." Basically you have your real name on your friends list, and no matter what character youre on, your friends can see you and chat. Great idea right? No. They had two huge privacy issues. 1st was friends of friends could see your name and account info. 2nd was to resolve any issues they forced you to goto their official forums....which posted your personal information.
This change was REQUIRED to keep playing. People complained, emailed, nothing worked. They implemented it anyways. There was only 2 things that stopped it. 1st was people started taking all the employees at Blizzard and posted their personal information based on just their name. Family, address, where their kids went to school, etc etc.
The 2nd, which is where I come to the point of story, is they reportedly lost 1 MILLION subscribers within a span of a week.
The people spoke with money (and stalking) and they listened and changed.
Why do 3 model year first gens get all the accolades? Only thing I can think of is they were still available with big blocks and thus given respect. As for the 4th gens, that was the first body style that the regular Z28 and T/A kicked the crap out of the mustangs with no argument where as the 3rd gens were usually picked on by the mustangs. I know the L98 was able to beat the mustang in a 1/4 mile and all, but most 3rd gens didnt come with a L98.
(Im going to talk about V8's here, completely ignoring the V6 for this part.) I donno about you guys, but when you mention a 3rd gen to people, they dont think of a L98. They think of L03's and LB9's at best. Its associated with a 305.
Mention a 4th gen to people, they immediately associate with the LT1 or LS1's. Two engines that during their time were dominant.
Not down in Miami. SFFBA (South Florida F Body Assoc) a club that no longer exists should have been called "South Florida Fourth Body Assoc" We were losers to them and couldnt understand why we didnt have 4th gens. As much as I love the 4th gen powertrain, I couldnt bring myself to own one from the pent up hatred I have towards the owners.
Quick story, Blizzard (Makers of WoW) tried to implement a system a year or so back called "RealID." Basically you have your real name on your friends list, and no matter what character youre on, your friends can see you and chat. Great idea right? No. They had two huge privacy issues. 1st was friends of friends could see your name and account info. 2nd was to resolve any issues they forced you to goto their official forums....which posted your personal information.
This change was REQUIRED to keep playing. People complained, emailed, nothing worked. They implemented it anyways. There was only 2 things that stopped it. 1st was people started taking all the employees at Blizzard and posted their personal information based on just their name. Family, address, where their kids went to school, etc etc.
The 2nd, which is where I come to the point of story, is they reportedly lost 1 MILLION subscribers within a span of a week.
The people spoke with money (and stalking) and they listened and changed.
Why do 3 model year first gens get all the accolades? Only thing I can think of is they were still available with big blocks and thus given respect. As for the 4th gens, that was the first body style that the regular Z28 and T/A kicked the crap out of the mustangs with no argument where as the 3rd gens were usually picked on by the mustangs. I know the L98 was able to beat the mustang in a 1/4 mile and all, but most 3rd gens didnt come with a L98.
(Im going to talk about V8's here, completely ignoring the V6 for this part.) I donno about you guys, but when you mention a 3rd gen to people, they dont think of a L98. They think of L03's and LB9's at best. Its associated with a 305.
Mention a 4th gen to people, they immediately associate with the LT1 or LS1's. Two engines that during their time were dominant.
Not down in Miami. SFFBA (South Florida F Body Assoc) a club that no longer exists should have been called "South Florida Fourth Body Assoc" We were losers to them and couldnt understand why we didnt have 4th gens. As much as I love the 4th gen powertrain, I couldnt bring myself to own one from the pent up hatred I have towards the owners.
One key thing here I have to clarify for fourth gens that when I say usually pisses them off when they say ta n ss beat mustangs everyone forgets they beat the gt which should not be compared to a ss n ta
Comparison should be as follows
Mustang gt vs firebird formula vs camaro z28
Svt cobra vs trans am ws6 vs camaro ss
Which mustang wins all day...lol
07-13-2012, 09:58 PM
#31
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Re: if they were built today.....
From... http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
Not really 100% right to quote a 03 Cobra vs a 2002 and older Camaro. They were not made the same year. Besides, the SS/Z28/WS6/Formula packages are so close that theyre not considered different in performance discussions.
Ford cranks impressive horsepower and lots of revs out of its handbuilt 4.6L DOHC V-8-but not enough to outgun the larger-cube overhead-valve LS1 in any straight-line contest. The Cobra's 5.38-sec 0-60 time hangs impressively with all the great muscle Mustangs of the '60s, but the Camaro's impressive low-end torque grunts it to a 2/10ths advantage. That lead grows to 3/10ths through the quarter, the SS also finishing the 1320 exactly 4 mph faster. The Mustang's best times were achieved with the traction control switched off, while this particular Camaro wasn't traction-control equipped. A bit of wheel hop hindered the Cobra, unless the launch was just perfect; the SS' wider torque band and lack of wheel hop made it much easier to get rolling.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz20YtfPFfw
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz20YtfPFfw
07-13-2012, 11:33 PM
#32
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Car: 87 Trans Am, 99 WS6, 16 Mustang GT
Engine: LB9, LS1
Transmission: 700R4, T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Posi, 4.10 Posi
Re: if they were built today.....
Lets be honest here guys, thirdgens came out during a dark period of GM performance and will always be associated as such. This was the almost exact same topic discussed back when I joined. Were never going to get the respect, credit, or acceptance that most of us feel we rightfully deserve. The sooner we accept it and stop purchasing that trash magazine Camaro Performers the better off we will be.
Performance was starting to come alive again. Instead of a constant drop in HP like the second gen, the power steadily raised until the end of production.
The 3rd gens would absolutely murder the first and second gens on a road course. Even a V6 '82 could probably take on the best performers of the 1st and 2nd generations on a track with turns.
The L69s, LB9s, and L98s weren't far behind from the higher end 1st and 2nd gens in a straight line either. I dare to say they could probably run similar times stock for stock.
07-14-2012, 10:51 AM
#34
Re: if they were built today.....
One key thing here I have to clarify for fourth gens that when I say usually pisses them off when they say ta n ss beat mustangs everyone forgets they beat the gt which should not be compared to a ss n ta
Comparison should be as follows
Mustang gt vs firebird formula vs camaro z28
Svt cobra vs trans am ws6 vs camaro ss
Which mustang wins all day...lol
Comparison should be as follows
Mustang gt vs firebird formula vs camaro z28
Svt cobra vs trans am ws6 vs camaro ss
Which mustang wins all day...lol
07-14-2012, 11:06 AM
#35
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Car: 1991 Christine Z28
Engine: RV Cam and Intake 350 SBC
Transmission: 5speed
Axle/Gears: 3.08 ls Posi
Re: if they were built today.....
Speaking of SVT's I tried following one the other day....yeah that was dumb. I could barely keep up lol. I think magazines would be more interested in our cars if they had huge blowers or a NelsonRacing engine, along with a great paintjob, shaved everything, new grille, lights etc. But I didn't buy my car because I wanted other people to like it, I bought my car because I like it.
07-15-2012, 12:46 AM
#36
Re: if they were built today.....
Hogwash.
Performance was starting to come alive again. Instead of a constant drop in HP like the second gen, the power steadily raised until the end of production.
The 3rd gens would absolutely murder the first and second gens on a road course. Even a V6 '82 could probably take on the best performers of the 1st and 2nd generations on a track with turns.
The L69s, LB9s, and L98s weren't far behind from the higher end 1st and 2nd gens in a straight line either. I dare to say they could probably run similar times stock for stock.
Performance was starting to come alive again. Instead of a constant drop in HP like the second gen, the power steadily raised until the end of production.
The 3rd gens would absolutely murder the first and second gens on a road course. Even a V6 '82 could probably take on the best performers of the 1st and 2nd generations on a track with turns.
The L69s, LB9s, and L98s weren't far behind from the higher end 1st and 2nd gens in a straight line either. I dare to say they could probably run similar times stock for stock.
07-15-2012, 08:28 PM
#37
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Car: 1991 Formula 350, 2002 Grand Prix G
Engine: 350 with SLP & Edlebrock mods
Transmission: 4-speed automatic-700 R4
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt with 3:73
Re: if they were built today.....
If you guys can check out the latest issue (October 2012) of High Performance Pontiac, you'll see a 6 page article on my 1991 Formula 350 that has been upgraded with ONLY bolt-on performance and suspension parts. It made the magazine because I didn't tear apart the car, but used SLP/ Edlebrock/ Hotchkis/ Alston/ BORLA parts to improve what the factory started but never finished.
07-16-2012, 08:24 AM
#38
Re: if they were built today.....
Edpontiac91- Gorgeous car!!!!! ....but I'm not sure about your reasoning for making the magazine. I'd hate to think that your car is the example of the farthest from stock that we're allowed to go. Now that doesn't mean backwoods hack jobs are gonna get in a magazine, but I certainly want to be able to "customize" my car. Someone earlier mentioned that thirdgenners don't go FAR ENOUGH with there mods. I think it's more about quality and craftsmanship.
....now if you're suggesting that the brands you used had an advertising value to the magazine......eh.....well then I can understand. I remember people used to call GM High Tech "SLP High Tech" LOL!!!!!! Isn't HPP a sister publication? You might be on to something there.
....now if you're suggesting that the brands you used had an advertising value to the magazine......eh.....well then I can understand. I remember people used to call GM High Tech "SLP High Tech" LOL!!!!!! Isn't HPP a sister publication? You might be on to something there.
07-16-2012, 08:25 AM
#39
Re: if they were built today.....
The facts don't matter, only perception. vwdave is right on how most people perceive Thirdgens.
07-16-2012, 12:13 PM
#40
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Re: if they were built today.....
....now if you're suggesting that the brands you used had an advertising value to the magazine......eh.....well then I can understand. I remember people used to call GM High Tech "SLP High Tech" LOL!!!!!! Isn't HPP a sister publication? You might be on to something there.
07-16-2012, 12:29 PM
#41
Senior Member
Re: if they were built today.....
And if that doesn't work, remind them that they got beat by an 88 GTA on the roadcourse in March.
07-16-2012, 01:51 PM
#42
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: L03 5.0L
Transmission: 700R4 Auto
Re: if they were built today.....
Dude I wish I was lying but yeah that deff happened lol I remember I was in the car with my gf and even she was like wtf is he serious haha
It's funny when u look at some 5th gen forums anytime a third gen camaro is mentioned they automatically mention the dumb stereotypes that come along with third gen...that's why I don't care for there community or the cars themselves they have no character and now that there focusing on making it a true global car there just gonna get worse and worse
It's funny when u look at some 5th gen forums anytime a third gen camaro is mentioned they automatically mention the dumb stereotypes that come along with third gen...that's why I don't care for there community or the cars themselves they have no character and now that there focusing on making it a true global car there just gonna get worse and worse
3rd Gens are thinning out, because they are considered crappy cars, and treated as such just because of their reputation. Only people like us appreciate them and it looks like (to me, anyway) they will be rare in the years to come.
09-08-2012, 12:48 AM
#43
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Car: 84 Trans Am, 84 Fiero, 86 944
Engine: 5.0, 2.5, 2.5
Transmission: 5spd
Re: if they were built today.....
4th gens had the douche perception for awhile they moved on form them to mitsubishi eclipses now that 4th gens fell in price when the thirdgens went up
09-08-2012, 05:56 PM
#44
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Car: 87 Trans Am, 99 WS6, 16 Mustang GT
Engine: LB9, LS1
Transmission: 700R4, T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Posi, 4.10 Posi
Re: if they were built today.....
If they were built today, they'd probably look like this:
This is generally what the proportions of all new cars are. In particular, the new Camaro.
Every concept rendering of any two door looks the same proportion wise. I'm pretty sick of it. Cars look extremely bloated today.
This is generally what the proportions of all new cars are. In particular, the new Camaro.
Every concept rendering of any two door looks the same proportion wise. I'm pretty sick of it. Cars look extremely bloated today.
Last edited by NowhereFast; 09-08-2012 at 06:08 PM.
09-09-2012, 12:09 AM
#45
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Car: 84 Trans Am, 84 Fiero, 86 944
Engine: 5.0, 2.5, 2.5
Transmission: 5spd
Re: if they were built today.....
i really like that, and i read that until the 5th gen the 3rd was the closest in original dimensions to the original 67 camaro and being that the new one was designed to look as much like it as possible i think your photshopping looks pretty good, honestly id the cars looked that way i'd actually probably buy one but being that there ugly and korean, nah
09-09-2012, 12:16 AM
#46
Re: if they were built today.....
If they were built today, they'd probably look like this:
This is generally what the proportions of all new cars are. In particular, the new Camaro.
Every concept rendering of any two door looks the same proportion wise. I'm pretty sick of it. Cars look extremely bloated today.
This is generally what the proportions of all new cars are. In particular, the new Camaro.
Every concept rendering of any two door looks the same proportion wise. I'm pretty sick of it. Cars look extremely bloated today.
09-09-2012, 12:28 AM
#47
Senior Member
Re: if they were built today.....
5 to 6 years ago i heard nothing but negative perception and comments about third gens right when i started getting into them. Now every time i pull up to a gas station or out in general i get people coming up to saying man i use to have a 92 or i use to have 89 trans am, it was the best car i ever had i wish i never sold it. I dont think its the value just yet thats getting people's attention, but the appearance of clean third gens when i drive every where people miss the body style or taking more notice for them today. People get tired of seeing so many different gens around and the clingy cliches talk about the same gen they start to miss another gen sometimes.
As for camaro magazine i stopped reading them because as i stated above the publisher is a clingy cliche that doesn't have any open mind. they just believe what they hear.
They won't ever respect the decade GM was working through break thru's with FI, or the body style that carried on 4 wheel disc brakes since the first year (82) or cornering and handling that the fox body never got. There's so much more to third gens then people know because of just what they hear from others. For example a guy parked up at the gas station yesterday in a beautiful 87 yellow iroc and the guy turned out to be a real jerk. He kept arguing with me about im wrong about everything on this car. He had 88 wheels on there and he said no those stock, he say it was a 350 car, when the 8th digit in his vin was a F for 305. He said i was a liar, and he has 4 third gens he knew everything about them. I just walked away because the jacka** only believe's what people have told him or what ever his case was.
Btw my g/f did not like my car when we first started dating, but a year or so into the relationship the car grew on her, she was willing to learn and accept the great aspects of a third gen.
As for camaro magazine i stopped reading them because as i stated above the publisher is a clingy cliche that doesn't have any open mind. they just believe what they hear.
They won't ever respect the decade GM was working through break thru's with FI, or the body style that carried on 4 wheel disc brakes since the first year (82) or cornering and handling that the fox body never got. There's so much more to third gens then people know because of just what they hear from others. For example a guy parked up at the gas station yesterday in a beautiful 87 yellow iroc and the guy turned out to be a real jerk. He kept arguing with me about im wrong about everything on this car. He had 88 wheels on there and he said no those stock, he say it was a 350 car, when the 8th digit in his vin was a F for 305. He said i was a liar, and he has 4 third gens he knew everything about them. I just walked away because the jacka** only believe's what people have told him or what ever his case was.
Btw my g/f did not like my car when we first started dating, but a year or so into the relationship the car grew on her, she was willing to learn and accept the great aspects of a third gen.
09-11-2012, 11:01 AM
#48
Senior Member
Re: if they were built today.....
I've had my RS since May 1990, my car has 375,250 miiles on the odometer. I still take the car on 1300 mile trips...in winter the honda gets salt & snow duty.
The honda makes me wish the RS had...
Quality materials for the interior. - 5th Gen is lacking in this area
Dash pads that don't split when they are a few years old.
ABS, traction control, stability system
Side airbags
Passenger airbags
Less rattles & squeaks
Keyless entry, w/windows that lower just under weather strip & auto up when door closes for a tight seal.
Auto dim mirrows, blindspot warning, lane departure warning
Limited slip rear on all models.
Tire pressure warning
Maintance reminder
Xeon headlights
The RS makes me wish my honda...
Could handle and not wallow like a pig on twisty roads
Could brake
Was cool
Had a personality other than econo-box
The honda makes me wish the RS had...
Quality materials for the interior. - 5th Gen is lacking in this area
Dash pads that don't split when they are a few years old.
ABS, traction control, stability system
Side airbags
Passenger airbags
Less rattles & squeaks
Keyless entry, w/windows that lower just under weather strip & auto up when door closes for a tight seal.
Auto dim mirrows, blindspot warning, lane departure warning
Limited slip rear on all models.
Tire pressure warning
Maintance reminder
Xeon headlights
The RS makes me wish my honda...
Could handle and not wallow like a pig on twisty roads
Could brake
Was cool
Had a personality other than econo-box
09-11-2012, 11:29 AM
#49
Re: if they were built today.....
The problem is all these old farts with TONS of money (nothing wrong with being old, farty, or moneyed... I hope to be all 3) are dumping them into these junky first and second gens and totally redesigning these cars from the ground up. Only thing stock is part of the firewall and the door frames. Maybe the side of the trunk.
And they TOTALLY redesign these things. Slam them to the ground, and do everything it takes to make this vision they have in their head fit the reality of what GM gave to them. And they get the biggest LS engine they can find, and put the biggest power adder they can manage onto it. That is, what I think, he is expecting when he says outside of the box. But it's more than just the redesign adn new drive train pro touring thing, it's the radical style these cars get:
GM didnt really leave that much to be desired when they designed the 3rd gens. The body style doesn't respond well to changes or stripes or serious mods or even most aftermarket hood lines. It is pretty good to begin with, which means most of us dont get too crazy with them. And we dont go outside the box. We also tend to not be able to dump $50k into our thirdgens. We dont get much gain from coilovers or even IRS. A 4-link requires backhalving the car and it wont really make the car handle much better... Theres just not that much on 3rd gens that needs to be changed except the drivetrain and brakes, and we're all doing that, one LS swap at a time.
It was Pablo I beleive talking about how stock drivetrain 91 (92?)305 Z28 was keeping up with some of these big money resto mod pro touring cars in competition events. These cars handle really well, huge redesigns are not needed.
GM did a good job with our cars. Doesnt leave us much lee way to mess around with it.
And they TOTALLY redesign these things. Slam them to the ground, and do everything it takes to make this vision they have in their head fit the reality of what GM gave to them. And they get the biggest LS engine they can find, and put the biggest power adder they can manage onto it. That is, what I think, he is expecting when he says outside of the box. But it's more than just the redesign adn new drive train pro touring thing, it's the radical style these cars get:
GM didnt really leave that much to be desired when they designed the 3rd gens. The body style doesn't respond well to changes or stripes or serious mods or even most aftermarket hood lines. It is pretty good to begin with, which means most of us dont get too crazy with them. And we dont go outside the box. We also tend to not be able to dump $50k into our thirdgens. We dont get much gain from coilovers or even IRS. A 4-link requires backhalving the car and it wont really make the car handle much better... Theres just not that much on 3rd gens that needs to be changed except the drivetrain and brakes, and we're all doing that, one LS swap at a time.
It was Pablo I beleive talking about how stock drivetrain 91 (92?)305 Z28 was keeping up with some of these big money resto mod pro touring cars in competition events. These cars handle really well, huge redesigns are not needed.
GM did a good job with our cars. Doesnt leave us much lee way to mess around with it.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; 09-11-2012 at 11:35 AM.
09-11-2012, 02:55 PM
#50
Re: if they were built today.....
Did someone say think outside the box?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-...item43b36dff8d
Here is a box.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-...item43b36dff8d
Here is a box.