I've been guaging intrest in adding a roll bar to my car for safy purposes. I will also be adding a a larger engine in the near future and I want a stiff chassis. Here are my two questions:

1. If I install a 6 point cage and remove the rear seats is it possible to build a sub box there with two 12's or 15's? Then mount the amps on top of the hump or something? That way I can still have the rear well for 2 more subs. On top of the hump would be where the amps are mounted with a plexi glass top. Then on top of that have the t-top bag hooks so you could still have somewhere to put the tops.

2. I plan on converting the interior to 4th gen will the S&W 6 point cages allow me to use the arm rests?

ANY PICS OF 4th GEN's WITH BARS & CAGES WOULD BE HELPFUL!

Thanks

 

I have a full 8 point roll bar from S&W race cars. I'm planning on adding a sub box in the back seat area.



My subs are 2 18" Kicker CompVRs the audio shop is building me the box for 125 bucks. Going in next Tuesday for the build.

Hopefully this helps a little bit. I'll get measurements and pics for ya once it's done.

 

this is on topic so im not trying to steal your thread . Would you have better quality sound from the subs being right behind the driver or in the trunk? Id assume behind the driver but i dont know a lot (and by a lot i really mean anything) about speaker placement.

 

Better quality with the subs in the trunk well reflecting off the glass on the hatch towards the driver.

 

why? How do you get a better quality with the subs that far away then right behind you....or is the point that right behind you is too close? Sorry i just like to understand why things are the way they are i have a problem taking peoples word for things :lala:

 

i BELIEVE that its because of the hatch bouncing the sound waves like directly to the passneger/drivers head levels instead of hitting the roof and bouncing back and fourth like that...not sure but i think thats what it is . pardon my quick/crappy paint drawing......lol

 

Pretty much what he said... it lets the sound waves expand more as before it gets to your ears. Concept's db formula shows having subs in the well so it reflects off the glass being 4 db louder than simple straight forward at the driver. Our hatchbacks are about perfect for good sound.... notice I said about perfect there no way I can see to get 2 18's in the well with at least a 2.5 or so ft chamber for each.

 

Also I wasn't going to point them straight up either... I planned on pointing them back at the hatch glass (had to sit them at angle anyways to get 18"s to fit.)

PoleCat recommend'd I aim them at the glass. ;-)

PS don't worry about the drawing my skills are the same. I didn't get all the angles right on the box... but you guys get the idea.

Oh I want to add that those crazy lines going up and down and back to the rear support and the side bar is my 8 point roll bar.... I mounted mine a little different than instructions. The main hoop is mounted on where the passengers should have there seats. I did that cause I'm 6'5 and I couldn't put my seat back all the way if I put it on the floor like in the plans... why have a car if you aren't comfortable, right?

 

Also for the armrests. I have clearenced side bars which let me keep my arm rests I'm not sure if the 4th gen armrests are different or not... I guess you could always install them try the bar if it doesn't fit right take it and have it bent to clear them... there's plenty of extra material on the bars that has to be torched off.

 

Sorry I was gone on some business over the last couple of days.

Fireturd350, Thats the cage that I was intrested in. Can I ask how much you paid?

My sub box idea would be just like fireturd's but with the subs angled and pointed at the drivers headrests- don't get me wrong I'm clear on the way that subs in the hatch may have betyter sound quality.

 

I got the 8 point from a GP! I it was like 90 for the roll bar, 70 for swing outs, and another 40 for extra clearance bars... once shipping and tax 280 bucks. I recommend the swings out for a street car... it would be a bitch to get out of it with regular bars. The extra clearanced bars are nice too it's not 40 bucks just for bending them there totally extra bars. I used the regular bars to do an X brace shown in the picture. Man this mod will really stiffen up the chassis and make you or your passengers feel a lot safer driving down the road.

News on the box: Shop installer bitched to the owner and the owner told the salesman to get a hold of me. The sales guy said he Under quoted it at 125 bucks (for particle board)... they now want 300 bucks for a particle board box. I told them no way I'll just make it myself. I'm looking into doing a fiberglass box since it would be extremly easy in this custom mod.

 

yea man thanks for the info. You keep us posted. Fiberglass will save weight anywhy Do they have a website (GP)?

 

I got mine through a GP off of Carolina F/Y bodies. You might start checking all the f body boards to see if there are any current GPs if not you could call S&W Sales rep Mike he did our GP I think he's extension # 17. But not sure on that. I'm sure he could arrange for another GP probably... 10 orders and you guys get 50 to 60 bucks off the basic kit. Which isn't that much but it all adds up.

 

When I installed my cage I used the old 3rd gen interior for spacing purposes. Not until the car was painted AFTER the cage install did I decide to go with the 4th gen dash/door panels and was not looking forward to cutting out the door bars next to my fresh paint. Got lucky as helll, installed the new 4th gen panels and the doors shut just like the 3rd gen did, granted mine are from a 98 Bird so there is probably some differences in design, but the handles/armrest have .00?'s clearance which is perfect for me. The bars going to the back off the hatch area should be mounted as close to the rear shock mounts as possible, so you have a little room for an amp rack, but definately not anything fancy. For this summer since I ran out of time before racing started, I just strapped down my 2 8" zooks between these 2 bars and mounted the amps near the rear wheel well plastic. Not a pretty custom install by any means, but the cars going into the stereo shop this winter after drivetrain mods are done so they can mount speakers in the door panels and build me a sub box/amp rack in the sunken area of the rear hatch area. The back seat for subs will be wide open, just kinda hard getting at stuff once the seats are mounted and the cage is in place. As far as subs in place of the back seat, I had a cavalier in HS that I removed the rear seat and installed 4 15's, 2 facing the front seats and 2 facing the ceiling-ported box with the 4 ports in the center, was stupid loud, blow your hat off on a good bass note, and sound quality was'nt too bad either-kinda muddy on fast bass lines, but tolerable.

 

can't really see the back seat area too good, but gives you an idea. The S&W kit is top notch from what I've heard, this cage was a Jegs unti and it took 5hrs from the time we fired the saw till the last coat of paint was dry. Worst part is getting the hoop in, aftert that it's all down hill, oh, the door bar angle for the floor is kinda goofy too.

 

oops, hears that pic

 

here's a shot of the back after I reinstalled the carpet-tunes came last, and again theirs not much to look at anyway, definatley not one of the prettiest systems I've ever done.

 

IHI,

Thats the kinda box that I'm think of. I'll have to see that when you get done. I'll start mine this winter. The cage that you use can you still use the arm rests or no? It looks like you can't thats something I'd like to keep if possible. Does S&W have a site or an e-mail? BTW you car looks awsome ALSO which guage do you have right above the headlight switch. I plan on doing exactly what you did with the guages.

 

www.swracecars.com .....Be careful and dont get your hopes up because when you get into the cages part they have an 8 point for like 150 bucks but when i looked at the accessories page personally there was about 250 dollars worth of accessories i wanted...ie x brace, side bars so you can use your arm rests etc

 

I still have use of the armrest, granted not as comfortable as a daily driver w/ no cage, but anytime you install something of this magnitude into your vehicle, you will have to make little scarifices unless you have lots of free time to really dig in deep and customize to the fullest-heard of a Toyota Supra from the Chicago area that acatually has the cage hidden behind factory plastic in the pillars and custom stuff for his halo. Looking back I wish I would've gotten the swing out door bar kit, it's really not too bad getting in and out of, but there is a nack to it-something I would'nt enjoy if it was my only means of transportation anyways.
I have the full Autometer Phantom gauge set, Tach, Speedo, gas gauge in the normal dash spot. Water temp, Oil press., and tranny temp in the HVAC ducts in the center and the voltmeter in the HVAC near the headlight switch. All the 2 5/8" gagues fit perfectly into the factory holes-almost scary they went in so easily with no modification, so ya gotta like that.
What I do with the system is still up in the air, I'm not 100% ready to give up a street/strip combo, but I do have the need to go faster, so unless I can find a rust free firebird to gut and go crazy or a reasonably priced rail, I might just end up tubbing this one and maybe making due with a radio at the most, we'll have to wait and see though. Everybody at the track calls me **** boy cause I got the pretty car with a stereo system-I even bought a set of Fast and Furious blinking valve stem caps to go along with all the crap I've taken this year. Kinda funny, the only time I utilized them was in a night time finals this summer which I won, tried to tell them the F&F blinking lights gave me the edge

 

what's the x-brace thing, and the door x-brace, basically, just an X right in those places to increase strength?

Also, the swing out door side bar, that just lets the roll cage bar swing out, w/ the door? or... what..doesn't seem like it'd be of much use to the performance of the cage if that was the case.

Also.. i'm wanting to keep my back seats.. can yous till put in the cage w/ the back seats? possibly cut out a bit of the seats for the cage bars? anyone done this? or tried it?

Also, how you get the cage into your car? a friend told me they'd basically ahve to take the top & all off, and practically everything out... how much has to be done to get a cage in? & can you do it yourself?


*edit* nevermind on the back seats thing, the runners go around, :-D & what's the gussets package of 25?

 

Usually in a full out race car with a 12 point cage, they'll install x bracing on the passenger side where the door is, just extra support since most true race cars only have 1 seat, I believe NHRA and IHRA are going to require next season the the 2 bars going to the back-in the hatch area-are goning to require an x brace in between them, going from where they meet at the hoop to where they meet at the floor. Seen many different variations of this already, and like any other rule, most tracks let alot of the technical stuff go, but definately something to keep in mind about the x brace out back.
The swing out door bar kits are designed so once you fully opoen your door, you pull a pin and the door bar swings out of the way allowing entry/exit that's almost like having no cage-not exactly- ALMOST. When isntalled properly according to spec, these offer no weak link so to speak, since the tolerances are pretty tight for the pin to slip through the brace, bar, and brace again. True it will not be 100% as strong as a real fully solid cage, but for all practical purposes will do the job with littel to no ill effect.
You can still retain the back seat if you desire. In my case I still have the new 4th gen back part that needs to have little sections notched out and material sewed back in so it'll tilt back all the way and latch, but you can also have the rear bars hug the hatch and have them bend 90* down so that it won't interfere with the back seat at all. One note-unless you have the rear of your car tubbed, there is no reason to use the diagonal bracing behind the front seats. These diaginal bracing is designed if you have the rear sub frame for a back-half, then these little bars would get welded to the main frame structure, but since these are unibody, it will do no good, but if you want to isntall them, WTF-you have them.
As far as installation, my car was COMPLETELY gutted becasue I had a killer paint job done and did'nt want to cut corners. But if you are gong to install one, I would at least pull out all seats, plastic, headliner, and carpet. There is not reason to cut the roof off Biggest reason for gutting aside from easier isntall, is to keep from getting weld burns in everything they touch-and fires.
Keep the door panles near by for fitting/placing the door bars so you won't have clearance issues later.

 

1 more of back right after install.

 

you do realize you have the nicest car ive ever seen right?

 

oh yeah do you use sfc's? or do you not worry about it because you have the cage?

 

subframe connectors are always a good thing to have, whether you install a cage or not, check out mine here: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=204957

 

If you have a true 6 point cage you really don't need the SFC since this is what the cage is designed to do, take the twist out of the car by stiffening it up, but I already had SFC before I got the cage. If you currently don't have SFC and are thinking about a cage, I would'nt worry about it, the cage is by far stronger than any SFC since it's spreading the strength over the entire uni-body instead of just front to back/per side.

 

Our cars being unibody use a 6" x 6" steel plate under each bar which is weld'd to the floor. This helps distribute the weight if the roll bar or cage should happen to have a lot of load put on it (like a roll over).

Now if you were installing a roll bar or cage in a full frame vehicle you would need to cut the floor open and weld directly to the frame rails.

SFC's are re-enforcements for a lack of full length frame. I would recommend you put SFC's on before or during the roll bar install. You might decide that the SFC's alone give a rough enough and stiffer ride you're looking for. It's pretty much like this a 1/4" 4 foot by 8 foot sheet of plywood is pretty flimsy, right? Now had a 1" by 1" board to each of the sides running 8 feet long. It will studier the board up. The SFC's weld every 2 or 3 inches along the underside of the car so it distributes the weight along the full floor pan. You could put more welds on but that's overkill in my opinion.

Not to mention that when you go to jack the car up you can put a floor jack anywhere on the sfc. Makes it really handy... I use the sfc's a lot for places to put jack stands.

Also SFC should reduce amount of chassis twist. As we all know twist results in a small amount of loss of motion (power loss) that could be going to the transmission and rear end.

 

ok, so, say i had S&W ship me a roll cage, 8 point.. who should i take it to? body shop?...to install i mean. & about how long should it take?

 

If you have the tools and any fabrications skills I highly reccomend a hands on install unless you feel like this is totally out of your range, very simple, jsut takes time is all. If you do decide to farm it out, before you take it to a body shop and get raped for $30-40 an hour shop fee, ask around to buddies that may know a circle track ie mud packer who the chasis builder is in your area. These guys that build modidifed and late model chasis all the time are set-up for this and do it day in and day out instaed of some who knows what that speacializes in paint-not saying they maynot have a person that could tackle it, but they may not have any experience with it at all too?! The mud packer builders will probably get ya for $150-200 for a 6 point install if everything is out of the car and ready for an install, at least that's the going price our builders in teh area charge, for a custom cage hand built they usually get $5 a bend/weld plus material. Hope that gives a little advice for ya.

 

I got one last question for you IHI,
Does the fame come painted allready? Then what did you do to paint the welds? Just spray can them in the car?

 

When you order these cage kits they come bare steel with oil on them to help prevent rust and all the bars are already fish mouthed for the joints. I did end up using my buddies notcher for the back bars into the hatch area since we did a little finagiling. Just a cheap one that used a hole saw and a drill, still ended up using agrinder to fine tune the joints for a better fit. Once you get the stuff you can either use brake clean and a rag to wipe the oil off, or thinner. I personally love brake clean since it dries fast and leaves no residue. Then once it was all welded together, I just bought some ceramic engine paint to spray bomb the cage. If your car is not going to get repainted, the inside should already be gutted for this install, so it's just a matter of taping stuff off. We use the ceramic engine paint for all our little projects like this, it's durability is great, and if you put the last coat on thick-but no so thick as to run- it leaves you with an incredible high gloss shine. All season getting in and out of my side, the paint has scuff marks naturally, but no chips as of yet. AND it's easy to touch up. Custom color cages look really nice too, but it's not really too practical IMO since stuff does happen and ya hate to get out the HVLP gun and mix paint, go through the whole rig-a-morle just to fix scuff marks/scratches which it will get unless it's a show only car.

 

IHI did you ever think of writing a tech article?

Thanks for all the help

 

Dude, I'd get way too technical and bore everybody. I'm always getting chit for writing novels already when I post responses on other forums Actually, I'm really not a good explaining type guy, I can do just about anything, but if ya asked how I did it, then I'm drawing blanks-and once I get in a zone the last thing on my mind is taking notes and pictures cause I'd lose my train of thought and go back to sippin a cold one instead of working. So much of this type of work is just regular ole trial and error, especially in a cage since you have to trial fit peices and cut/grind here or there to get everything to fit right. If you or a buddy have any welding skills and the time/tools at your disposal, this would make an excellent project and maybe for a novice it might take a few days, but it's alot of fun, and as long as the welds look good you'll impress alot of folks. You can't believe the other guys at the track with these 3rd gens that asked if I'd put one in their car, but unless it's a buddy I'd rather stick to hacking up our own stuff in case something does'nt go right, does'nt take much to inflict big $$$ damage to a nice car.
Glad I could be of some help and good luck.

 

couldn't you get it powder coated? i know that powder coating is stronger than most regular painting processes, and paints in general...? I know a guy that builds fences and has his stuff powder coated for pretty cheap... Once i get this stuff paid off, i might think about doing all this, and going ahead and ripping out the carpet and replacing it w/ new...

BUt ya... powder coat it to a certain color, maybe gunmetal or dark grey/blackish... Or would that kinda chip? i know it doesn't chip on computer cases, which they are all powder coated, and well, scrathing is of course a problem, and very very hard to touch up, but ofr the most part, wouldn't it be better?

 

you have to bake powder coating, i it would be kinda hard to powder coat a roll cage that was in a car.

 

mmm, :-/

 

Hey man keep it up this post has been super informative for me youve been a big help.

 

, alright here's a few more little tid-bits for a better cage install and I'll attach a few more pics, sorry I did'nt go in and draw on them so you knew exactly where to look, but I'll try to describe the best I can. When you go to install the hoop, the u sahped bar behind athe drivers seats, I found that it was easier to get a hole saw a tad bigger than the hoop tubing and drill a hole so that the hoop could actually be slid into the back area and down so the bottom of the hoop would actually be below the car's floor pan, this way I could rasie the hoop to hug as close to the roof line as possible so it'd be away from my head and nice and tight once I reinstalled the headliner-which is fun too when your done. Once I had the hoop marked where I wanted to cut it, I stich welded the holes I had preiviously cut out, back in, and ground flush so you could'nt tell I had cut hole in the floor. Now for those of you that have had the carpet out, the rear floor pan behind the drivers seat will have a radius near the door pillar by the floor, this is where the 6"x6" steel will have to be welded in for a base support fot the hoop. By mounting it here, the cage hoop is far enough back so it'll be kinda stealth when driving down the road, but a true car nut will catch it and think your the chit. Now 6"x6" metal is approx 1/8" thick if I remeber right, maybe a little thicker-been awhile, but it is square. This square will not work where it needs to be placed since it won't allow carpet to be reinstalled and it'll look gawdy. So we took our big torch, stiched the back corner where it can be square to the cars floor pan, then heated the 6x6 metal and took our trusty hammer and started to form this plate to the contour of the radiused floor pan. As you get it to form, tack it in little areas ata time, other wise if you weld too much down and try heating bending/hammering, it'll literally rip a hole in the floor pan-I KNOW. This takes a little time, but once you get it contoured weld away. Just be sure to do 1" stitch here, then jump over to the opposite side, do a 1" stitch there, otherwise you'll melt through the floor and then have to fill holes. If you've never welded, MAKE SURE you take the time to gring all the metal free of paint and or body sealer, will make arching and welding alot easier, does'nt just go for this but any welding, trying to weld over rust/powercoat/paint/puddy etc...is not what a mig likes, save that for arc welding. For a legitimate cage you must use a welder rated a minimum of 140amps for good penetration, you can fudge if you have to by using a 130amp mig with .035 wire and argon gas since it'll burn hotter and penetrate deeper, but if you have access to a bigger welder get it. Welders are kinda of like a stereo system in a sence, if the amp is too small it'll work, but not as good as if you have a big one that'll more than cover any output it needs to make it sound good. the hotter the weld, the deeper the penetration, the prettier the weld since it'll lay flatter/flusher and not buger up and look like ***.Here's a pic that'll kinda show the plate the hoop needs to be mounted to. If you follow the hoop down to the floor board, there is a 6x6 plate that has been heated and welded in place, kinda hard to see becasue of the residue from color sanding all over but it's there.

 

Another thing when you install your door bars, rules require that the door bar pass between your shoulder and your elbow, so sit in the car and have a bud poition the door bar so it passes about midway through your biscept, a little closer to your shoulder instead of your elbow, but so long s it passes in that area of your arm. Once you get that point marked on the hoop, it'll be time to see where it hits the floor pan up by your feet so you'll know where to install the 6x6 plate, make sure your door panel is installed at this point becasue it'd suck getting all together and find out the door don't shut. So once you have the door shut, the bar held in place on the hoop where it needs to be, you can then mark the area on the front floor board where the steel plate goes, once you isntall the steel plate, then the fun of figuring out what angle to cut the door bar off at so it sits tight against the plate. This will just have to be trial and error since everybody's will be a little different. When you install the plates in the hatch area above the gas tank, these are the esiest since it's flat and no funny business, be fore warned, this metal back here is flimsy and prone to warping if you try to weld a long bead at one time. Definatley go back and forth between side to side and top to bottom to make sure this hatch flooring does'nt warp beyond repair. And don't forfet the fuel is under there should'nt be a problem so long the tankdoes'nt have any leaks, then it's your personal call to be a fireball or not. Can't really think of anything else, sorry pics are the best, but did'nt take pics of that process, just teh before and after and afew shots of it that got caught in the mix of other projects. Here you kinda get an idea where to install the door bar on the hoop in relation to the rule thing.

 

It cost me 300 bucks for the 8 pt install at a welding shop. I stripped and installed all interior myself on my own time and I helped the welder off and on do the work so it was a lot cheaper. I would recommend Por-15 coating for the bar after you get it installed. That stuff is pretty heavy duty. I used it on my roll bar I only used a 1/2 pint (31 bucks shipped) to paint the whole thing with 2 or 3 coats.

 

wow do i smell a tech article? Thats a crazy amount of info im loving it man im going to book mark this page so i can use all of this when i have the money for a cage. Thanks for putting in the time to help us guys out!

 

Hey Fireturd, I'm not giving you a hard time, but when they installed the diagonal bracing from the hoop to the floor boards behind the front seats what was the overall intent besides making carpet install harder. I ask because I had them in my hand, set them in place and then shook my head since all they would attach to is the hoop and then near the tranny tunnel which in a factory stlye uni-body poses no addidtional purpose except making life harder upon interior installation. These are designed to be tied into a cross member that runs from one side of the cars under carriage to the other when changing the rear suspension ie tubbing so there are 4 connection points to this major component to keep the suspension/rear of the car in place. Again, not flaming just curious, I know we paid for them so what the heck put'em in, but really, for what since the tranny tunnel is flimsy sheet metal and they send no plates for these to attach to.

Also when installing the cross bar in the hoop, this must be located approx. 1" BELOW your shoulders for harness attachment to keep you in the seat if disaster strikes. And they do not send this mounting tab, you must either buy a pre made pieces or fab somtehing up yourself, very minimal in the whole scheme of things.

 

You can buy the tabs from S&W. There in there catalog there a universal tab. The main reason for the F'ed up install was the hoop was moved back for me to put my seat back all the way... that put the hoop on the rear passenger seat area.

As for the crossmember bars I installed them because I have a spohn SFC's old design that takes an additional crossmember bar that welds SFC to trans tunnel. I also have a 1st design spohn tq arm so it pulls from that area.

I thought the same as you did for the bars though... I cut out new plates for each one cause I didn't think they would do much otherwize so I have small plates weld'd in that area. I guess they figured there wouldn't be much load put on them... but I wanted them as an extra support for the tq arm and sfc's... just help tie everything together more.

 

Ahh, makes perfect sense then and just proves every case is different. If I had all that you bet I would've done the same thing for the added support to the entire system. Seems weird that your seats could'nt go all the way back and still put your hoop in the same spot as mine since that's how we got the mounting point on mine. Both my 3rd and 4th gen seats seem to have to the same travel on them and I can go full back to just touch the pedals and I'm 5'10" Even $300 was a fair price for the install from a buyer stand point, heck I told teh guy that pinted my car $200 and a 12 pack-plus he helps on the cage not the 12 box!!

 

Yeah, that's an awesome deal. I have my seat back at more of an angle though probably. I'm 6'5 so my arms are probably considerablity longer than yours. If I have the seat at any other angle my head actually rubs the headliner. Also I might add if I have the seat back up further I can actually look down threw the blue sun stripe on the windshield... gets annoying till you do that driving down the interstate at dusk then it's ok.

 

Holy smokes, your play basketball then right? Probably never heard that before I completely understand your situation, but be honest, you ride laid back to "pimp" around town lookin for chicks! These low roof lines sure don't help in the comfort issue and I'm average height, I know when I'm sitting there with my helmet rubbing the head liner on race day, I always think to myself, boy this would really hurt if for some reason I flipped my lid, think a little spinal compression might be the result. Even the S-10 I race in another class that has a full 12 point cage, my helmet is actually a tad above the top of the cage and we literally have the racing bucket as low as possible in there. Hopefully I never have that problem of going over on top at 125mph in the truck either-double zowie!!

 

I've thought about what if you flip it as well, i doubt the front of the car is actually far enough out, and high enough up to really make it so the angle is enough as to let your head not hit the ground... So, i thought.. what if you extended some bars to the front, and down the sides of the car, and to the bottom, possibly running thru a bit of the dash..?

Then, no matter how you flip & roll... your fine and don't have to worry about bad head injuries. Cuz.. think about it..i know it's good to have a cage, to help save your life,... but what's the point if you could be perminantly injured, and possibly not move, ie, paralized. due to some small bit of head injury... I mean.. fronts of cars get torn off, what if that happened, and well, the angle isn't enough to really do anything.


Just.. a thought. I'd love to extend the cage to the front, for this reason, when/if i get the cage done. I have no engine mods cept for headers, but.. i don't care, i'd rather be safe in a wreck(tourists in florida have NO clue how to drive).

 

You can do a 10 or 12 point, with the old style dashes I 've seen you have to notch out a section to be able to get the dash back into it's original spot and it really looks horrible. Now that you brought this up and I think about it, with my 4th gen firebird dash, there is a open hole near the window pillars where the factory 4th gen air ducts used to route, the particular peice is actually molded into the plastic pillar, so by all rights with my dash, I could easily and cleanly install the halo...now ya got me thinkin I don't think I'll go so far as install the bar going between the down bars for the halo, but maybe this winter that'll be another snowy day project. Thanks.
I will say that right now with no faster than the car is running, I'm really not overly conserned about flipping the lid, most wrecks under 120 are getting out of shape and bouncing the rails, but anything can happen. I'll attach a pic I took at nationals this year when a guys steering shaft came apart and he had zero steering at 136mph, he hit the binders crossed over intot he other lane, then back again, spinning around and hitting the emergency turn off gaurd rail backwards at a predicted 120mph, flipped over the guard rail and did a few cart wheels and a couple barrel rolls before coming to rest. He walked away with a srcap on his ankle and a bruise on his leg. The cage held up perfectly and literally the safety equipement required for his ET/speed IMO saved his life or at least from becoming a vegetable.

 

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