Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Usually manuals are lighter than automatics.

Have you ever undertaken a project like this before?

Firebird_dave7

not one of this caliber but i have had a few dune buggy projects that ive done and im currently doin one right now. but i will be fine i have a few master techs and old hot rodders as help.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

If you choose to keep the 700R4 you could always get a lighter TC and flexplate along with a carbon fiber driveshaft weighing in at 3lbs.

You could also get a big drill and start cutting some body panels...you'll lose alot doing that, my buddy's astro van has sheetmetal body basically because he just started cutting and drilling out his panels leaving a little around each support.....chopped it 5 inches theres even more weight.

BUT...its all up to you and what you want to do to achieve a lightweight car with HUGE power.

Firebird_dave7

i have a question anybody know where i can get a fully bolt-on ram air hood(fiberglass)?

84bandit

hawks for the hood- big suggestion here, just use the sbc,and turbo the thing, you could do it for about 1200 and get some really impressive #s out of it. go to the gm subforum on turbomustangs and look at how long till it gernades- this guy is like a god of the "go fast" 3rd gen cars. hows a 10.03 with less than $2000 in the motor/ turbo setup?

as far a weight goes, remember enough horses will make anything go fast

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

This is exactly what I think too.

Trust me. I know it's "cool" to have something different, but half the time it just isn't going to turn out nice. You're going to spend big bucks hunting down a good Pontiac motor, and then parts are harder to find. Then you have to figure out how to get it in correctly so it's not a piece of ****. Honestly, it's a huge project. You're 16, I'm not saying you don't have patience or skill, but seriously, do you want to spend a year or two trying to get this thing together, or drop in a motor/tranny and go? Most of the time, when people embark on these huge projects they turn out like **** unless they have a serious amount of money and time. (Maybe you have both)

Again, I don't know how much money you have to spend, but if you can't afford a LSx swap like I suggested before, you're seriously going the wrong direction with a Pontiac swap. And on top of all this, if you want to go fast, why not just turbo a LSx motor? The LSx motors are so much better than the Gen I small block. If the Pontiac motor/small block chevy was the ultimate race motor, you'd see one in the Z06 and new Camaro.

I'm not trying to cut down your ideas, just trying to make sure you understand the other options. Good luck. Let us know what you think.

Firebird_dave7

well i have patience and i know its my junior year and everything but i plan on havin my 455 H.O. Firebird Roadracer!!



But maybe i am going to throw a 327 with a hot cam until, i get everything for the drivetrain ready. But i think i am goin to get a hardtop '87 Shell and build that up, cause my t-tops arent goin to take a likin to all that torque!!!

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Put a cage and subframes in it. A big block isn't really the road racer's choice for a motor.

emory 4-4-2

if you can find a good 455, do it. but don't worry about the 6 speed, if you build the 455 right, you won't need all those gears. save your $$ for other stuff. make the car solid enough to handle the torque and have fun. i woudn't put a cage in it unless i was willing to wear a helmet and a harness. like the previous post, if it makes enough power, it won't matter if the car is heavy.

if you are willing to tear the car down completely and redo everything, cool. if not, just do what you have to do to get it done. it has nothing to do with being young. i have a friend that built a 67 camaro in high school, by himself, and had to replace every panel but the roof and trunk lid. how did he do? he wins car shows with it (there's a letter he wrote in camaro performers last month i think)

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

The fact that the 3rd gen didn't have pontiac power available should tell you something. It would be a whole lot easier to build an SBC in the 3rd gen, and then buy yourself a 2nd gen with a 400/455 already in it, to have the big poncho power. Heck I have a friend in CT with a very strong running rebuilt 400 in a 76 Formula that he'd probably sell you, where are you located?

Firebird_dave7

well i am goin to build a small block 3rd Gen, but im also goin to have my 455H.O. Firebird....but besides that im in florida

84bandit

theres one thing you haven't considered either- headers. the only headers for a 455 in a 3rd gen are like $700, and they don't fit very well. $700 is a pretty big chunk of your budget (i know im in high school too.) (heck $700 is almost my whole budget) so that a pretty expensive problem

Firebird_dave7

well i am goin to custom fabricating the headers, and exhaust

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

How much money do you have to spend on this project? The entire project, engine, tranny, fabrication ect.

Firebird_dave7

well i have around 5g but thats just for now, and im prolly goin to use a hardtop instead but still a '87 Firebird

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

If you're looking to build up a decent motor that puts down some power, you're probably looking at 3 to 4k bucks. Chevy High Performance did a basic build up using "affordable parts" (hypereutectic pistons, junkyard 350 block ect). They spent $3,300. This was for a vortec headed small block. I can't imagine building a Pontiac to be any cheaper.

I would assume you were looking for some power if you're going to spend all this time putting a motor in. Having a 200hp 455 would suck *****.

In my opinion, this is just one big mess. Parts will be nearly impossible to find, unless you buy new stuff, which will be expensive. You could build a much faster Chevy vehicle with your budget.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

chevy motors are way cheaper to build, id pull a 454 out of an old truck, port the heads, swap intake, put a 850 holley on, and a big cam, hedders and then call it a day. building a 455 parts are WAY more expensive and BB's are expensive enough as it is.. plus the 454 makes way more power than a 455. You can easily get 500hp out of a 454

Firebird_dave7

thats the thing im not just looking at horses under the hood, im looking at torque overall 455's had a much wider torque band than 454's, so thats the reason and anyway, shave the heads throw a bigger cam and a intake with a rebuilt holley would be a really good pavement pounder

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Here's some dyno results from my 400 small block. It's got stock 200 dollar vortec heads on it. Dished pistons. Lunati 230/230 .480/.480 @.050 cam.
A Chevy can make just as impressive torque band/numbers.

RPM Torque HP
2,500 477 227
2,600 483 239
2,700 488 251
2,800 489 260
2,900 490 271
3,000 493 282
3,100 503 297
3,200 511 311
3,300 516 324
3,400 521 337
3,500 525 350
3,600 525 360
3,700 524 369
3,800 522 378
3,900 519 385
4,000 515 392
4,100 512 400
4,200 508 407
4,300 504 413
4,400 500 419
4,500 491 420
4,600 480 421
4,700 471 422
4,800 464 424
4,900 457 427
5,000 449 428
5,100 440 427
5,200 431 426
5,300 420 424
5,400 411 422
5,500 406 421

Firebird_dave7

those are impressive, and im not sayin Chevy engine cant make impressive numbers, and actually my favorite engine is a Chevy, but i also like Pontiacs, and alot of engines just not Fords, so i know what they can make but i would like a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac and its been awhile since they had 455''s so i thought i would bring it back!!!

89RsPower!

can someone please tell me what the heck a 455 h.o. is? What did it come in? Is that just like throwing h.o. after a random cubic inch size sort of like a "vette engine" or is it actually a real engine that actually came factory in something like a 305h.o. which is an L69?

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Its a 1970's GTO engine. First introduced in 1970.

Also in the 71 Trans-Am...only 2116 had this motor

Firebird_dave7

The H.O. stands for High Output and it came in GTO's, Firebird's, and Olds had the 455 too!

89RsPower!

ah so your doing a factory rebuild of a 455 ho and swapping it into a 3rd gen? I guess its just one of those things you do cause you wanna do it.. It would be much easier to make more power much cheaper with a lighter small block, especially if you went with an LS based engine.. intresting idea though.. maybe not pratical.. on a side note I was unaware that olds and pontiac 455's were the same engines.. always thought each division used their own engines back in the then, learn something new everyday..

Firebird_dave7

They arent the same engine just same Cubic inch Displacement, the Pontiac has a relatively long stroke to bore, while Olds has short stroke to large bore

89RsPower!

yeah I realize that I was just confused why you said olds had it too.. I mean buick made a 455 too but it isn't the same thing.. anyhoo guess I just read it wrong..

Firebird_dave7

Its ok but right now I am changing my 305 out cause it has had a top end knock for sometime, so we are puting a rebuilt 350 in it for a lil while and when i get a hardtop then im putting the 455 in that!!
anybody have pictures of a 8pt. rollcage installed?