So this car is for sale local in my area. It's a 1989 Formula WS6 with a 350 long block, or so he says. Haven't seen the car in person yet but have pics that do the car somewhat justice. Power everything, everything works, all guages, even the ac works. Has a new compressor he says. It's been from Florida all the way up to PA multiple times. Posi rear end and WS6 performance package. Could use some paint but other than that what you guys think?

 

I like it, i say go for it.
But i'd carfax it and get the mileage if its been on long trips.
With a little paint that'd be a sick car.

 

Has the motor been replaced? I'm no expert on 'Birds, but that looks like a TBI car, and they were all 305's I thought - so you'd better see that block ID before you assume it's a 350.

And then, (again I'm no expert), but I didn't think the WS6 pckage came on TBI cars - TBI's definitely didn't have posi rears that I've ever heard of. If it's a vin E car (8th digit E), and hasn't been modified, it's going to have a 2.73 peg leg I think. You know the ONLY way to be sure it has a posi is to remove the differential cover and see right?

If it's a TBI car with 305 motor and no WS6 or posi, I'd wave $700 in his face - he'll take it. In my world, $1000 is a little high for that car.

 

You can also jack up the car and spin one wheel and see if the other moves as well. If it does you've got posi, if not its got the peg leg.

 

Yeah I am also a bit skeptical about the 350. He said the previous owner had it done in some garage and all he got was a receipt but he threw it away. And yeah from what I remember TBI's came with the 305's. He says it's got the big sway bars, blah blah and the ws6 wheels but heck anybody could do that. It's about an hour drive from where I am. And I've talked to the guy throughly about the car over the phone. Maybe I'll make him a lower offer and he he doesn't bite I'll keep it moving.

 

With the different colored body parts up front I'd almost bet on the car having been wrecked at some point. The frame horns are probably bent. Not sure what the actual bumper or impact absorber material looks like underneath. The car looks really rough to me.

Before I took that car home I'd want to verify the block casting number, check the actual bumper and frame horns, etc. I'd also check the usual spots for rust.

 

Yeah I also had that in mind as well. I didn't ask but he didn't tell either. He said the hood was switched cause of his son's friend sat on it and dented it. Where exactly could I find the casting number? I could possibly ask him to read it for me and I can look it up. Like I said it would be about a 2 hour round trip so wouldn't want to waste my time if I didn't have intentions on buying it.

 

The block casting number is on the rear "deck" of the block on the driver's side, behind the head/valve cover. That's hard to get to while the engine is in the car. The easiest thing to do is crawl underneath the car and look at the side of the block. The last three digits of the casting number are written on both sides of the block. I don't know what the casting numbers are for each 305 but 1989 or 1990-1995 305's had a casting number that ended in 627.

Some casting numbers I am familiar with

#627=305 (LB9)
#880=350 (L31)
#882=350 (2 or 4-bolt mains, ZZ4. Also used for 1996 and newer GM Goodwrench replacement crate engines.)

 

I just bought an 89 for 1200. They we're asking 24. Heres a list of what it needs;

Floor pans
Right rear coil spring seat
2 tires
brake lines
power steering lines
brakes
rotors
wheel cylinders
new headers
battery tray pan

It's a rebuilt 305 tbi with less than 30k on the motor car has only 149k but it was in Jersey by the water for a couple of years. Has a 87 TA body kit and not even a rust spot on any of the body panels. Just cleaned and rust reformed the entire engine compartment and undercarriage. It's at the mechanic now and the total estimat for all work is 3k. I had already bought the parts at 40% off and tires for 200. so the total cost for all work and to pass inspection is 3600. Functional Ram air hood and paint will be done in July. Cant wait to post pics.

 

DON'T GET IT!!!!! ... if it hasn't already been brought up... front end damage, you'll never be able to get your car aligned properly... it looks like it got a half a** repair... I mean otherwise it would have been painted... for 1K, you should look for something that's all one color, at least this way you'll know or have a better chance of it never being in a wreck... oh yeah carfax it as well...

 

Well guys he swears up and down it's a true fromula ws6. Has the offset wheels and everything. Has a posi 3.08. I ran the vin he gave me (1G2FS21E0KL256039)
and unfortunately it is not even a Formula. It has the code "S" which makes it a firebird. So it just has decals, wheels, a badge and a posi. And suspension as well, or so he claims it's not the regular suspension. Bummer.

 

well the engine code is "E" which I think makes it TBI... however.. you need to take this vin to your local dealer and get a build sheet.. or something like that, it will give you the RPO codes that the car was shipped with.. you will want to look for "WS6"... BTW, I don't think the fact that the car is or is not a Formula would be determined by the VIN alone... I have a formula, but it comes up as a firebird... I know I have a formula... well it's a base formula, but a formula the least...

 

Ah I see. Oops, lol. Didn't mean to offend if I did. I don't think it's really worth it. The guy originally want 1500 and I offered 1000 and he didn't even hesitate to take it. The effort it would take to get it "decent" wise I don't think it's worth the effort. Not at 1000 anyway. BUT! On the other hand

89 Trans Am GTA WS6 4wheel disk brakes, original 5.7 350 board .30 over forged pistons, Forged Crank, crain cam,ported heads,Every gasket and seal on motor is new,holley street dominator intake, holley 750 carb, mallory high volume oil pump,hooker headers,hi volt dist.,dual flow master exhaust,new starter,auto trans with shift kit, posi rear end,new brake pads and calipers,new grant GT steering wheel, interior of car is in excellent condition .all original a/c is there needs charged, no cracks in dash, need headliner, body is very straight in primer needs paint.black honeycome style wheels with slightly used fusion zr1 tires.

Guy only wants 1400 for it?

 

The 5th digit of the VIN would tell you if the car is a Firebird, or Formula/Trans Am. The Formula and Trans Am are lumped together. Though I'd say that it is relatively safe to say that if the car's 5th digit of the VIN is a "W" and the car looks like a Formula it probably is. Still the only way to know for certain whether it is a Formula or not is to see the SPID sheet, build or ordering sheet for the car. Once/If you have that information then you can check for RPO code W66. The presence or lack of RPO code "W66" in the documentation for the car would tell you whether or not the car is a real Formula Firebird or not.

 

That seems a little bit low for such a car but then again if the car has no paint job (primer only) and he's converted it from TPI to carb I can see why he'd have a hard time selling it. He might be pricing it just to get the car gone and get SOMETHING out of it. I'd look at it but do so very carefully. Check the frame horns and bumper from underneath the car to make sure it hasn't ever been wrecked. Also look at the radiator and fender supports. Check the rear quarters and back of the trunk pan for bad repair jobs. (IE Bondo) Also check the usual spots for rust in the floor pans, wheel wells, and near the windshield etc.

That's not a bad price for a car but understand what you are diving into with a car this cheap.

 

Yeah it's a tough one. However the guy did say the valves needed to be adjusted. He did state that I could hear the car run and even put it in drive he wouldn't recommend driving it until I get them done right. So this leaves me to think that worst case scenario something could be up with the engine?
He claims to have invested over 4k into the car and he no longer has time or money to put into it.

I appreciate all the help and inputs as well guys.

 

Yeah if its not in driving condition right now I'd say that there was something suspect with the engine.

 

This is NOT a reliable method for determining a posi rear

 

Well it has worked on every posi equipped car I've ever worked on. Beyond that I understand it wouldn't work if the rear end was broken.

 

On a third gen, jack the rear up, put the car in park or 1st if a manual and turn one of the wheels, if the other wheel turns backwards you have an open rear, if the wheel won't turn then you have a posi.

All Formula cars got the WS6 package.

I bought my 88 Formula 305 TPI for $1700 7 years ago.

 

The formulas also had the trans-am style rear spoiler, not the one that white car has. As for the hood, I'm assuming he just threw on the power bulge hood to make it look like a formula, the thing with the hood getting dented from some kid sitting on it sounds like BS to me. But if you can talk him down to 700 or 800 bucks then I guess that's not bad. But the surface rust in the engine bay might mean that there's more rust underneath the car.

And that GTA sounds kinda sketchy as well considering the valve problems. I'm always uneasy around third gens that are covered in primer and have had engine swaps done to them.

But in any case, good luck!

 

Yeah the guy with the "formula" obviously doesn't know his real facts. And I mentioned TGO and he claimed that nobody here knew what they were talking about, lol.

Checked out the GTA. Looked damn good. Had the GTA seats, the honecomb wheels. The back were deep dish, all around disc brakes. Even had the AC still hooked up! All guages worked and I got to hear the engine run. It would most definitely be a project for certain and take time and money to get it where I'd want it. Has a real nice top end knock to it. But overall sounded really good.

 

far as im aware all the 350 engines that came in formula non trans am/gta had tpi fi. the 305 could have tpi or not. all formulas came with the aero spoiler up till the nose change in 1990. all formulas with ws6 had interior badging on the passenger side dash stating performance suspension. formula 350s had 140mph speedos the 305 i believe was either 120 or 125. i want to say the diameter of the ws6 sway bars was 36mm but i could be wrong.

as it sits that is definately not a formula 350 based solely on the pics.

note tpi 350 engine and aero spoiler to go with bulge hood and ws6 styling wheels along with the lack of door, front and rear 1/4 panel ground effects


note performance badge lower corner passenger side under dash pocket.


all these are cosmetic or easily parted pieces but if some or all are missing odds are it isnt a formula 350. only the original rpo along with vin number can confirm. mine is a true 1989 formula 350.

 

Yeah I think the guy is full of it to be honest. I asked about the rear spoiler and he claims he took it off due to it collecting water and what not. And it being cracked. But how could he worry about that when he's got muti-colored body parts? Lol. Definitely sounds like the car has been dressed up and not worth $1000. He won't take any less and he thinks I'm trying to beat him up on the price.

Btw GORGEOUS car!!!

 

thanks ive never had the spoiler collect water. the originals are made of a hard rubber that do indeed crack over time. the repros like mine are made of fiber glass. my original aero spoiler was severely cracked. but regardless of material, water has no detrimental effect on fiberglass or rubber aero wings...

 

Yeah I don't know what's up with the guys story. But the basic VIN brings it back as a 89 Firebird Base/Formula. I note all the decals are there and I do see the badge. He also has the offset wheels up front cause of the sway bar. If I could get away with getting the car for $900 what do you think?

 

Go see it; Check the RPO sticker and if its a WS6, but it; If not, walk.

 

All 350CID, L98/B2L engines were equipped with TPI. The Formula base models came with the L03 TPI engine starting in 1988 I believe and the LB9 305 TPI engine was optional. The nose change occured in 1991. 1987-1990 Formulas all had the same nose as your car. The 16" wheels were optional and not standard on Firebird Formula. And yes, 36mm sway bars were used up front on Formula cars.

The VIN number tells us that the car came with the L03 305 TBI engine.

Again the VIN confirms the engine type. The Formula and Trans Am were lumped together by VIN. The Firebird was separate and the VIN clearly denotes "Firebird." Of course we don't have the RPO codes so that's a moot point. However without W66 to prove that this was a Formula I'm going to call shens. The car in question is NOT a Formula.

 

just the condition alone says no. if your gonna restore it and dont know anything about painting engine bodywork its going to be very pricey. if the rpo vin check out and you want to put it back the way it was your talking huge money. i would think your better off finding a shell sans drivetrain...

its entirely possible that car was frankensteined out of several others. the engine just doesnt look right to me i used to have a 87 base formula ws6 w/305 tbi bought new off the lot in late 86. that engine looks nothing like what i remember.

 

So I decided to go with neither cars. The guy with the Formula just can't prove it and will be stubborn till he's blue in the face. I don't think it's worth wasting a few hours of my life going to see it.

 

The 16" Convex wheels were standard on the Formula since that is what comes with the Formula Package.

140MPH speedo was optional for both the Trans Am and Formula, and was a popular option, my 86 T/A, 88 Formula, and 90 Formula all had 140 speedos and all were 305 motors.

 

if you havent gotten the vibe already, RUN!!! there are nicer, less questionable cars out there for about 1k

 

No worries. I'm long gone

 

Sorry I was thinking of the concaved Formula wheels.

 

Holy hell i was debating on calling about that SAME EXACT car lol. i live in orlando and just picked up my black 89 gta today for 1000$ and i love it.

 

Lol nice! Please don't tell me it was the one in primer. That guy was a total idiot.

 

nope but i saw that one to lol

its an all black, all original GTA with t-tops.

1 OF 1,659 black GTAs in '89.

 

Pics?

 

coming very soon

 

Like I'm one to talk. I got a 1992 Formula Firebird maybe a month ago and I've yet to take any pictures of her. Though my girlfriend did snap a few the day we trailered it home. It runs and all but I wasn't going to drive a car I didn't know the better part of 200 miles without checking it out more carefully.

 

Well I may be a fool but I'm going to buy that 89 gta. The guy really doesn't know what he is talking about but the body alone goes for well over $1000. I'm only paying $1000 for it. It is a true GTA and all the interior is there, seats, dash pad even has no cracks. I think it's well worth it and i tinker with the engine and see what happens. Worst case scenario I put another engine in it.

 

Well around here you can often pay $1,000 for a car that doesn't run at all. So its not too bad. I'd check the body thoroughly for Bondo. Take a magnet to the quarter panels check carefully on the underside for rust, etc. If the body is rust free and never has been wrecked than go for it.

 

Yeah I figured I wasn't doing too bad. Granted it'd be sitting for possibly a month I'm okay with that. The car was originally a nice red and I can't figure out why he wanted to paint it, but i'll definitely get under it and and the usual spots. The engine bay has been painted black. I know I can check the vin from the dash and the truck lid and hood. Anywhere else?

 

The VIN can be found any number of places. The RPO sticker should have it, I've seen them on the inside of the doors, fenders and tons of other places. Like I said look for buckled metal, places where magnets don't stick etc. If you do see rust you need to find out if its just surface rust or not. And on that subject I'll say that when you typically see rust, its always a lot worse than you think it is.

 

Will do. I'll be heading up there again shortly so i'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

Good luck.

 

where do you live? i used to see that car all the time in south daytona

 

Which car?

 

hey my dad had a formula. it was a 305 tbi and it came with the ws6 suspension posi rear and 4 wheel disc. surely some of that might not have been stock. but they definitely came as 305 tbi with ws6 i know that for a fact because all base formulas had it

 

GTA and FORMULA was standard WS6 weather it was TBI or TPI. the 140 speedo came in the 350 and 5 speed formulas. the formula was offerd with 2 diff style wheels, in 87 it had the convex wheels and in 88 they went to the "turbo dish" or concave style wheel.
you can also see if the build sheet is under one of the seats, this will tell if its a formula or not.