http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IITKdGtRDpw

on the 87 firebird, you'll see in front of the drivers side seat is gone. aproximatly a 1 foot hole. with carpet exposed.

this is my daily driver. so the main concern is not haveing the hole in front of my seat for inspection next month. Floor pan little expencive for me at the moment and don't plan or the have the knowhow to pull a floorpan out of a donor.

I am newb to any type of body work. Have read many good things looking at others posts. Definitly see that when I do put in a correct floor will need to coat it with somthing to prevent rust.

First thing I would guess I need to get the carpet out of the way I do want to use this same carpet and make it fit back into place.

I can take a trip to have access to a Mig welder if need. Is this a correct type of welder to use?

Again at the moment if possible I'd be fine taking a peice of sheet metel and finding a way to block the hole with it if works for inspection, and replace the whole drivers side floor pan later. Maybe weld or Rivet the patch to some the rust on the sides of old floor pan for now?

If I buy a drivers side floor pan. Whats the apropriate way to do it. Remove carpet, seat, center column, Pry off the old floor pan? is the peice the seat attaches to in the way? and are the bolts to remove seat under the seat itself?

Thanks for any opinions / suggestions/ technique

 

Looks to far gone to me. That much rust suggests alot more is hiding else where.
I would look for a new body.

 

You will have to cut the rust out of the floors. Then either cut out the floor of a rust free camaro or buy a floorpan. To install you will need to weld it in place--this is not a job for an amature! Keep in mind that the floor boards are a key piece of the structural integrity of the car (these are unibody cars). If this isnt done right your car will not be safe (especially in an accident).

 

it looks unsafe now. this is a must fix kind of thing

 

I wouldn't worry as much about the floor pans as I would what is behind that new metal. Even looks like a torque box has been covered. New floors aren't worth anything without rockers. As you see most of your floor pans are gone and car hasn't folded up. More structure in rockers than floor. JMO Not trying to hurt your feelings, just being honest. Save yourself alot of time and find another car.

 

The floorpan is only a structural concern if you cut the whole thing out. As long as the transmission tunnel and seat supports stay in place as well as the rockers you can cut the whole floor out and it won't hurt a thing.

Mathius

 

Thanks so far for your opinions / advice, yeah theres alot of rust on this car. Im going to continue rebuilding this one. Just sucks new floor pan gonna cost so much, compared to the fact I used to be able to find these cars for only a grand in highschool. When I was looking for a car a year ago looked at a couple of real peice of junks and one that had an amazing motor ( shoulda took the one with the V8 and rebuilt from there . Ohh yeah I do hate that my car is an automatic.... hmm.
But this car looks pretty sweet And I have done / learnd a ton on this thing.

I see how to take the seat off, not tackling the job just yet, but getting some WD 40 on the bolts. Looks like 2 in the back, two in the front. Book explains for the seat and the seatbelt. When I am ready to see the whole thing or tackle the job. ill take the center console out and the plastic thats in the way.
Be nice if I could afford a welder at the moment, with the rust it be nice to have on hand and to remake other parts as I go. May just have to find were I can rent one for the job. Thinking it be hard to pull the seat out, rip out the floor, and then drive an hr to weld it up lol.
Ill prolly rip out seat and everything later this week to see what I am working with, as far as other rust and if seat mount is rusted out. Just want the WD 40 to work in so I dont break those bolts while taking seat out.
Guessing biggest thing when welding her up is trying not to get to much heat in one area at a time so things dont warp? Definitly dont want door to not close right. She is hard top, so no worries on the t tops. (blah another downside to my car lol)

From what Ive researched Mig welding looks pretty easy on the setup of the machine compared to gas . If I want to make a nice bead all the way around the new floorpan, I will need to tack it and do small runs at a time to try and not warp things? Setting Mig welder on low settings low gas, best welder to use for the 20 gauge steel? (the floorpan if thats not the correct measurment )

 

trying to see what the Frame and seat support looks like, I have seats out, How do i remove my shifter ****? automatic, button on left side that u push in to to shift. looks like there is a latch or somthing in the front of the shifter?

ok I found that the peice in front of the T shifter is a U thing, so pulling that out

 

I would just like to commend this man for fixing his third gen instead of just tossing it. It will be all the sweeter once your done, and you'll feel good knowing you saved one from the junk yard.

Subscribed.

 

Carpet out, Well Can't take it completely out couse the da* bolt for passenger rear seatbelt stripped. But updated video
Bars the seat bolt on to look good, front one needing a little clean up. Behind were seat goes is getting a rust hole through, obviously front of seat is gone.
Looks litk ethe bars that seat attach to are attached to floor pan. So I will need to find a way to cut these out and then put them back in place after new floor pan is in. Was expecting to see a seam under console to remove floor pan but no. So I have to try and cut it were new floorpan will line up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWeFETUPPRM

Thanks Darth

 

Okay, question. Have you ever had eny expereince with GMAW (MIG)? I ask because it's not quite as easy as it looks, especially on a lap joint of 20ga. Trust me, I've done it. But the first several times I did it, I burned through, even with a Hobart Handler (110v) turned all the way down. I don't intend to come across as mean, but I have been welding for a long time and I'm not even sure I'd feel comfortable taking on a task like this.

However, IF you can get your cap over to solid metal, rather than rusted 20ga (which typically cuts the thickness in half, causing burn-through alot faster), it may be okay for someone with alot of experience with this type of weld to do. There are things to think about anytime you are taking on a welding project. These are just the concerns I would have in your position.

 

Thanks for the Question rivershark2005. No I don't belive I ever touched a mig welder. Only really used gas and not in like 12 years now.

Blah, threw drivers seat and belt in leaving carpet in the back seats for now.
When I tryed putting the part in front of the console that holds heater controls and radio, can't seem to get it to fit were one bolt is sticking in the back to hold it in place, so will mess with that more later. For right now my car looks like shi* lol.
For the hole in the front of the seat, if I did just grab a peice of sheet metal and make it stay there. ruff estimate on cut at the moment is 2 foot by 2 1/2 feet so it would cover up were hole goes to firewall to the front of my seat. I am sure if I payed a shop to cut out the floor and put new one in it would be rediculous costing.

 

At least for your own safety and your passengers, have that thing checked out by a professional. Not Johnny's chop and drop/ patch and go. Like I said from the first video, there's some very important structural parts covered with roof flashing or something. May want to double check the brake and fuel lines under there also. Just to say you own a Camaro or Firebird is no reason to endanger your life or those that may be riding with you. Good luck which ever way you decide.

BTW never seen a post about someone using thicker metal in floorpans for strength. Would like to see something like that. But I wouldn't waste my time with that unless I was making a bomb proof car.

 

lol at the bomb proof car, might be a good idea? Yeah fuel/ brake lines were rusted to poop. Ive replaced most of them. that was a pain in the as* figuring out the sizes and the right fittings sometimes. like everything on this car everything is different sizes.

Searching for metal, prolly riveting and such for now.

 

They actually do reinforce the floors on courier trucks, limo's for high profile people and such. Especially overseas in military vehicles too I would imagine.

I know what you mean about the brake line sizes. Much easier to pay a little more for prefabbed lines. Early V8's had standard and metric bolts under hood. Depends weather they went in the block or not. What a mess!

Good luck with the build, just keep safety in mind.

 

thx White, subframe looks good so far, working right now on cutting all the garbage out around it, got an angle grinder and some shears, had to take a break to grab some beer for the job

In search of metal - stopped at a home depot they almsot had exactly what i needed but it was 26 gauge , I dont want to go thinner thats for sure, have the stuff bowing on its own weight. I see some sheet metal places to call tommorow, no luck calling machine shops for it today. Got new speed sensor, of course having fun trying to pull old one out, sprayed some pb, but so far just bending part the old sensor.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIeLSINgZ80

Ruff cut and cleanup of existing metal, will have to clean out inside of subframe tommorow.

 

Looks like you got the basic idea. Frame rail isn't that bad. I'd be sure and check those torque boxes, the thick metal pieces from the rockers over to those front frame rails, just below the toe boards of the floor pans. Those are major structural and most of your support in a side collision.

Even with thicker metal, large flat areas, without support, will beer can. Pop in and out. That's why the factory puts those ridges or troughs in floor pans. It gives them strength so they don't beer can but act as crush zones in a impact. Slight breaks or bends in large flat areas of your new metal will help keep your new floor from beer canning. Those sticky backed Q-pads will help some as well.

There are some products out there that convert rust to a black primer so primers and paints will stick to it. Not sure if it lasts or not but it does seem to work. It will cause paint to peel if left on nonrusty metal. Did you get a welder or is it going to be pop rivets?

 

ok thanks again for the info Whte gold 88

Its just gonna be pop rivets, traced with liquid sealer. Undercoated.

Been having a question on the burn through if/ when I weld a peice in. If can attach to thicker not rusted metal, one the things to help prevent burnthrough will be in picking up speed just a little by not looping back as much in my beed? I know even then its still hard.

Blah I was dumb and when I was cutting the Rust out Breathed in a bit of it, goggles were fogging with the face mask, shoulda found way to use both. But my eyes were the pick seeing a choice of one or the other at the time. I got a bunch of Aluminum Rivets, thinking I should find steal ones? aluminum sounds weaker and rust easier?

 

I just wanna see how this works out.... Good job so far. Although I'd have the new floor welded in rather than riveted, but that's just me.

 

If you haven't done it already, You could use the panel bond and pop rivets together. Manufacturers are saying it's okay to bond some floor pans in now. I don't see why you couldn't bond that one. Get out all the rust you can first. Keep us posted.

 

I have been reading all of the posts and I definately am glad you didnt scrap it. I had an identical looking floorboard. I chose to cut out an existing floor, seal it, then weld it. Pop rivets are not a bad idea. If you seal them well, they should last a while. Plus if you ever decide to weld them, they can be drilled out and you can weld right where your holes are. The floors are not welded in solid anyway. Just spot welded. As far as welding goes. I had never touched a welder and I welded in my floor, and a quarter panel. I was much less brave than you though. I didnt post my progress for fear of criticism and screwing it up. It looks like you cleaned it well. I would still use something like Por-15 to slow down the inevitable. I will try and post pics of mine when I am done. The truth is, a lot of these cars are rusted there or at least in the beginning stages. It starts behind the fender where it bolts on, and works its way over. T-top cars usually look worse. You may even get by with a patch piece of metal but it would be a good idea to have the metal stamped (ridged) or whatever you call it to give the metal more strength. A body shop or heat/air shop could probably do it for you cheap. That is my 2 cents. Good luck with your project.

Kevin

 

In the fabrication stage.
I picked up a couple of panels of 16 gauge cold roll, is what I belive its called. Is a little thicker then what I was expecting so the shears i got are useless in cutting it. Gonna try cutting her down to size with my angle grinders cutting blade.
Have the extra panel incase I screw the first one up or to double it up. I do have reivets and rivet gun that I picked up with some sealer and undercoat.

So far I dont have a way to make the ridges, But I see mine ran lengthwise. I may draw some out and have the machine shop fabricate them for me. The bends for the firewall is going to be a pain.
I do plan to weld it in the future. Weather I replace this piece as well with an orderd floorpan. Or I weld over the rivet job.

Side note: I wasted 118$ on a speed sensor. Exchanged the new one as well just incase it was also defective. but my speedo still bounces all over the place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV2NwmsyFw4 took this driving to work this morrning.

 

Thinking about it you probably want steel rivets. Bimetal corrosion occurs when you have steel and aluminum together.

Any sealer applied between panels will make it hard to weld later. Makes dirty welds. I-Car recommends stitch weld 1 1/2 to 2 inches with same space unwelded with spotwelds about 2 inches apart. Not exactly sure why but think it has to do with thickness of metal. Thin metal being so hard to weld? Either way works for me. Self etch primer will work between panels if sealed after. It can be used as weld through primer. Good luck and keep us posted

 

bad speedo head

 

They also expand and contract at different rates so they will eventually leak or just come out all together. Steel rivets is the way to go if you want it to last.

Are you sure all self-etch primers are weld-through primers? I didn't know that.

Weld-thru primer typically has a large zinc content which is what allows you to arc through it and supposedly let the primer stay within the weld joint and offer corrosion protection.

I'm not sure I buy that last part, but in theory weld through primer's better than anything else because just about any other paint or coating is going to burn off anyways and probably contaminate your weld unless you're using flux core or something.

And I definitely agree he should seal it after. Theoretically, if he just seals the weld joint there shouldn't be any need to coat in between panels because air can't get there (unless he only welds one side of the lap) so there should not be any rust, but I would still use the weld-thru as a precaution. Even if he only stitch welds or spot welds like you recommended, a good sealer should keep air out from between the panels. Unless he traps moisture in there. Another no-no.

Mathius

 

PM sent

 

When I cut out the floors on both my car and the donor floors, I used a sawzall with a metal blade. It worked very well and left a clean cut. You just have to make sure whats underneath.

 

I used to use a jig saw with a metal cutting blade to cut out roofs for sunroofs. Worked great, much easier to handle than a sawsall.

 

nice

 

Never tried that. I am sure that would be a lot easier to control. When I cut the floor out of my donor car, I cut through the subframe and everything.

 

The rust in the passenger well is from water running back under the seat- it is the low point. Find out where that water is getting IN from before you close everything up. Mine is leaking from the cowl drain... not as bad as yours, thank god!

 

i had the same problem but i just bought some sheet metal and bent it up to fit closely to what the floor pans were and welded them in, put some body sealer goup stuff from the auto store in the seams and then i put some new carpet in, i love it i didnt take any pictures though cause i thought that everyone has had to deal with this but i live in Minnesota haha.... very bad for any car ever driven in the winter