I guess this may be an impossible topic to get much solid opinion on, but what about the sqeaks and rattles of a 22 year old Formula? Ive got one in the passenger side dash thats driving me nuts. It only happens when the car is moving and hits any bump. I cant simulate it by shaking any part of the dash. When the car is stopped it feels rock solid. Ive also pulled the kick panel/pad and reached up/down in there, to find nothing apparently loose. Souds kind of like metal to plastic I think, maybe metal to metal, hard to say. I also get a small clunking sound from the back end when I come to a stop. Almost sounds like the gas tank is not strapped tight enough, and the sloshing gas is causing it to move a little. It made a similar sound today when I was pushing up and down on the back checking the shocks. I know every car is different, there are a million parts screwed together, and without hearing these things for yourself it may be impossible....But, is there any overall general information that gives body contact points that are known trouble areas for a thirdgen? Dumb thread idea I guess, but surely someone else must have wondered, or wanted this better quantified?

 

I don't think the gas tank deal is what's going on. My 85 was half-assedly bolted on by only the back bolts on the strap, it never rattled even tho I could kick it from the bottom and would clunk a bit. Are all your bushings and sway links and such good to go? Shocks nice and tight?

Every third gen I've been in has door rattles. Whether they sag or not. Even welded shut, one rattled.

 

Well, shocks are one of my questions too. When I get a little more cash, Im going with new shocks, struts, and springs all around. But anyway, the ride is not that great. It rolls over a little more than it should in the corner, and is easier to push down on than I think it should be. But, a couple months ago I disconnected the lower shock mounts to see how hard they were to compress, and it took all my strength to push it back up. Very little difference from new shocks that Ive installed in the past. So that left me scratching my head, but the car is just too easy to push down on, both front and back. It doesnt push back to resist the way I think it should--the way my 4th gen Camaro does (that I put new shocks/springs on). Not many rattles from my doors, they arent too bad--except when I drive over a RR or something, then the whole car shakes like its going to fall apart, but that could be bad shocks/springs. I havent checked my sway links, will do asap, and take a closer look at bushings too. Seem ok, but might need a closer look. Oh, btw, we just installed an entire different rear axle assy a couple months back, and it made this noise before and after....

 

Door rattles are a big problem. Here's a thread on fixing most of them. Old thread and many pics are deleted now though.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq-...servation.html

 

Yeah, Ive looked at that. I did have some door rattles when I bought the car, but worked in them, and they arent bad now unless I hit a really big bump. Misaligned windows are a big culprit there. My rattles seem to be in the dash, and toward the rear of the body/underbody.

 

Check the exhaust for contact with the body in places. Get under and thump it around see if you get it to rattle. Dash not so easy to pinpoint.

 

Your springs might be worn out then, your shocks sound like they're good. Even with sway links disconnected, it should have some resistance. The asshat P.O. of my 87 broke em and wrapped them around my sway bar..
Check to make sure they're bolted nice and tight up at the body, rubber grommits there.. my Mercedes would do exactly as you said, the nut at the top of the shock wiggled loose ever so slightly and would do that.
Same with broken or heavily worn sway links.
On a side note, in case you're curious, shocks from a W210 chassis Benz fit our cars. They're a little taller too. Odd compatibility there lol.

Check your exhaust hangers and muffler (if any) though. It could be swaying and making its own hip hop album.

 

You mean you cant point me to which of the thousand screws in the dash is squeaking? Aww man......

 

But it has a "liquid" sound to it, along with the clunk. Thats what made me think the tank was loose, I dont know.....

 

Yeah. To me it looks like it sits about 1" low over the back tires. My 4th gen did that too before I put new springs. Im sure these are oe springs in there. But Ill check those upper mounts this weekend.

 

Dunno bout the liquid sound, but exhaust runs from engine to rear bumper with only 4 mount points. 2 for tails, hanger over the rear end for the intermediate pipe (check the rubber isolator in it) and hanger by the cat. a lot of movement is possible. Had a clunking on my car over bumps and one of the tailpipe hanger bolts had loosened. You have the rear spring isolators in there? People remove them to lower the car sometimes.

 

I guess they are still there, but I dont think Ive ever really looked closely. There isnt anything wedged in the coils themselves--I dont think anyway. But it only makes that sound when you stop, or go from reverse to drive to reverse, etc. Not the rear end, its a "body" sound. You guys are giving me a lot of homework to do this weekend. Lol..... Could be the gas really is sloshing a little, but just co-incidently to the other sound.

 

Odd, I spose its possible to be your tank. Can't hurt to double check em all

 

You said you pulled the rear recently. Nothing like these on the springs when you did?

 

Well, sort of. What happened was I had a guy put new gears/bearings in the rear end, (Im not confident enough to do that just yet) and they went bad after 2-300 miles. I took it back over to him and the bearings were shredded. He claimed it was because the housing was bent, so I got a new assy and took it over to him. The only reason I didnt install it myself was because my car was sitting in his stupid garage instead of mine. Therefore, I dont know what came off the springs. I can remove/install an axle, it was just the gear set up I couldnt do--though I think I could now. Anyway, it made the clunking sound even when the old axle assy was in there, so if they are gone they were gone then too, and werent there to be reinstalled by Goofboy. Needless to say, Im not going to him anymore. That housing dont look bent to me either.

 

If you haven't already, I highly suggest you install a set of subframe connectors.

 

Yeah, thats on the list--eventually. Cash is short right now, trying to chase one crisis at a time. Want a wonder bar and strut tower bar too....

 

I put sub frame connectors on my T-top and half the rattles went away!

 

Aahhhhhggg! Yer killin' me man. LOL I want SFC's too, but want to do it myself, and I dont know how to weld yet. What would it cost to have a shop do it? Like $500? Thats the kind of thing I cant afford right now.

 

I would think you can get the welding done for around 150 or so. I traded one of my Summit hoods to get mine welded in. Mac SFCs are the same design as Alstons if you can wait on the backorder they are always on. About $100 cheaper than Alstons $139.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAC-SubFrame-Connectors-to-86-92-Camaro-and-Firebird-4892-/301252394088?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46240abc68

 

Joe, I though there more to sfc's than just those two bars? Or is it that those are the only parts that need to be welded? I know some sets have drive shaft loops and bolt on brackets included and so on. But then I just visited ebay, and over all its mostly those two parts, with a few exceptions. But Id still be looking at $300 for parts and welding. I am just out of money right now, cant afford it, itll have to wait.....

 

Alstons and Macs are inner SFCs and tie front and rear sub frames together. Spohn and others are outers and run along the pinch weld for the rockers usually have a brace to the trans area. A lot of debate on which are better. When I can pony up the bux I'm putting outers on as well. I know the funds issue well. Old cars are money pits get used to it LOL.

 

...but theres a shop here in town. I might stop by and ask, might be able to beat $150. But dang, Id realy like to do it myself...

 

Oh ok, that explains why Ive seen two different kinds. Thx. Sitting up watching the KC/Oak game. Quite a game, one of the best baseball games Ive seen in a while.

 

My car had a horrible squeak that would only happen when driving. I thought it was in the dash and took it apart 3 times trying to fix it. It ended up being the small brace that goes from the passenger fender over to the firewall. The hole for the screw that attaches the brace to the firewall was stripped out and caused the brace to squeak. It sounded just like it was in the dash. If your car has that brace check it out as well as anything else along the firewall that could transfer the noise inside making it sound like the dash.

 

The SF/Pit game was way better.

 

Im very glad you said that, because that was my next suspect! When you open the door and look in there you can just see the edge of it, and I thought that might be part of the problem. I have been planning to take my pass fender off to adjust it slightly. It needs to be moved back about the width of a key to be perfect. If I do, I'll grab that bracket, shine a light in its eyes and beat it with a rubber hose! Btw. Did you have to take your fender off to fix it?

 

LOL.... You must be a SF fan! Im a Red Sox fan. Awesome, awesome season last year, not so much this year. But Im fine with it. I needed a stress free summer to spend time with my "new" thirdgen. Im so satisfied by last year (I HATE, HATE, HATE Tampa and Stl, esp Stl) that I could go for years in last place and not complain! Besides, I dont want to have to go through that again this October, it was absolutely exhausting. But that whole season was like something youd order off a sports menu, about as perfect a season as you could ask. That grand slam by Ortiz against Det was case in point. That stuff only happens in movies, it NEVER happens in real life, never--but then it happened......

 

You're probably looking at the antenna brace. The one he's talking about goes from the cowl to the passenger hood hinge.

 

Brace is on the upper left of the pic, super easy to get to. Surprising how that sound carried into the interior, sounded like it had to be inside the dash.

 

Yeah, now that I think about it Joe, I think youre right.

 

Ok, Ill give it a look, but I dont THINK thats it, I could be wrong. Sounds more like its coming from the extreme right and lower--near the fender. Could be that attenna brace I see inside the fender too....BTW, engine bay looks awesome. Well done!

 

Nope, that brace is rock solid, just checked. Gotta be something else. My suspicions are on all the screws and connectors inside the fender. If its not the dash, it has to be in there.

 

Here's a side view of my car. It looks to me like the rear is sitting just a little too low. Maybe 1/2-1" or so? What do you think? Im trying to figure out if I need new springs, which may be contributing to the rough ride and sloppiness in corners. For that matter, if the rear are bad, the front probably are too, although I know the front springs are 583 pounders. I know when I changed springs, shocks and struts all around in my 4th gen Camaro, I literally could not believe the difference. It raised it 1-1.5" higher, and it rode and drove like a brand new car!

 

I've seen the rubber screw in rubber stud on the back of the hood cause weird sounds inside the car.

 

You might want to take the dash pad off and lower cover below the ECM. Then drive around with someone on the passenger side. That way the passenger can shake and push/pull on different things inside the dash to eliminate that as a possiblity. Thats what I was doing when I figured out it was the brace on mine.

 

Yeah, I had that thouht too, except I was gonna have my dad drive it around town while I sat in the passengers seat and listened.

 

You car is actually sitting level, but the lines of the car make it appear the rear is sagging. Mine did the same thing. What I did to correct the problem was to replace the isolators on my rear springs with a new set from a '98 Trans Am. I like the stance on my car now.

 

You could look at the jack and spare tire parts in the hatch.

Also the liquid sound and thunk could be the baffle in the fuel tank broke loose.

 

Ok, thx. I might just get new ones too, and see what that does. What you said makes sense. This car isnt sagging near as much as my Camaro was, but its down a little. Isolators are cheap and easy to replace, provided I dont break the sway links getting them off. I noticed links are a lot more expensive for WS6's. On my 4th gen when I replaced the springs I just bought links too, becauese I knew they were gonna break. BTW, are the 4th gen isolators taller/thicker than thirdgens?

 

Our cars have baffles? I didnt realize, I guess I never though about it, but Im sure a lot of cars do. You may be exactly right then. Hmmmm, only way to fix that is drop the tank. Not gonna mess with that unless my fuel pump goes belly up. LOL

 

Not sure you can fix the baffle, its a plastic tub but there is some metal in there too.
Don't buy a aftermarket tank, they don't have the baffle..

 

Right, but either way youd have to drop the tank, whether its to fix or replace. Royal pain in the butt. I dread the day a fuel pump goes out in any of my cars. Although, my 07 Mustang has a little fuel pump access door in the trunk. Why they didnt think of that in 92 is more than I know.

 

Shoot, bring it over, 3hr job at the most on my lift!

 

Are you talking about the end links? If so, I don't know how WS6 has anything to do with them. The sway bars are different, but to my knowledge the end links are the same.

Yes, the 4th gen isolators are about an inch thicker. Also, they have somewhat of a skirt around the first coil which helps it sit right on the spring as you install it. Much better design IMO.

Regardless of isolators or end links: You, my friend, NEED to get some subframe connectors before you do anything else to your suspension.

Eldon

 

LOL... yeah, but Ive never dropped a fuel tank before, and dont own a lift! Id have to first study the book to see exactly how to do it, then crawl around under there using jack stands! Ugh! Man do I wish I had a lift.....

 

WS6 cars have poly endlinks and the regular cars have rubber. (atleast 3rdgens)

91-2 WS6 cars use blue poly and the older WS6 cars use yellow poly.

 

Sway links for my 3.8 4th gen Camaro were about $7 at Autozone, links for my 92 Formula with WS6 are $28! I figured it was because they are beefier. As far as the SFC's go, I just cant afford it right now. Even if I get cheaper "inside" SFC's, I cant weld yet, so by the time I get them and pay someone to weld them on, Im looking at $300. In a few months that will be pocket change, but because of some unexpected expenses lately, Im just out of cash for a little bit, and want to build a solid cushion for "life" expenses to keep things safe in case of emergency. Theyll have to wait.....

 

BTW Eldon, the item numbers for coil spring isolators are the same for third and 4th gens on Autozone.com, and they look like they are the same thickness--not very thick. How would I know which one Im getting? I'll check ebay also.....ok, checked there and am more confused than ever. Most isolators there look pretty small/thin. The ones from my Camaro were kind of thin too, but its a V6. I dont see that making much difference in the stance of the car, so what was blacksunshine91 using?

 

MOOG Part # K6630

or ACDELCO Part # 45G0001
ACDELCO Part # 45G0013