Got the p/n's for the nut and cap?

 

IIRC the fix for the LS1 big brake swap with GTA crosslace rims was to space the wheel out with washers on the studs because the calipers were rubbing on the backside of the laces. With a 13 inch setup I think you might be getting into the inside of the rim on one of these wheels as well as interference with the laces.

 

I haven't tried the rear wheel, but I'll be getting a front and rear and trying it again...I hope I'm wrong. And yes, there was a problem with the LS1 brakes and the GTA mesh wheel...it's covered in the LS1 brake thread in the FAQ forum.

Ed

 

one question... what about 4th gen wheels on these brakes.... they'll stick out to far wont they?

 

Looks nice makes me wanna redo my standard 1le's 13" rotors kick ***.

 

Wow! My brain is numb after this thread (and one before). I was debating on doing a 1LE swap for my 85 Z28, wondering how hard these would be to put on a stock brake set-up? I noticed that you were already working with a C4 brakes, this 13" set-up was only $500 more?

Have any plans on selling these as a complete kit? Do you have a detailed list typed up or anything?

Nice job though


CJ

 

You'll still need to run a 1.5- 2" or so spacer to fit up 4th gen wheels.

One Long...(He he..."long")...it depends on what your definition of hard and difficulty. You'd need to mod the spindles, make hubs and brackets, and then get all the brake parts. It really depends on what all you can do yourself.


Sent you a PM to answer your questions.

Ed

 

Well boys, there's good news for you guys with 16" Formula wheels...the 13" HDs fit with no problems. I fit them up on my RS this afternoon between rain storms and here's the pic. It's really tight, less than 3/8" between the wheel and the caliper but it will fit.


Ed

 

Any opinion on 13" HDs and these rims? Sorry if this has been answered this already.

 

Damn, now I'll have to build a 3rd gen 'bird to road race/autocross now too...

 

This was the pic I wanted to post.

 

Ok just to clear up a few questions I have right now about this conversion, sorry ahead of time if it has been answered and i missed it. Ok first off i work at Oreillys and ordered in the C4 calipers and the non HD rotors, so today I go to work to take a look at them and the rotors measured 13" not 12? I am 100% sure that I ordered the non-HD rotors, and there isnt a possibilty of being boxed wrong with the HD rotors because we do not have a listing for the HD rotors. So anyways to my question, from what I have read the carriers are different between the non-HD and the HD carriers correct? Therefore i would have to use the HD carriers to use the rotors (13") that i had ordered in? Also the bracket is the same for both setups correct, except for the thickness of the bracket? I have made a few practice hubs on the brake lathe at work and it only took me about 30 minutes to do one, best part was i was getting paid to do it! Oh yeah you have to use the 1LE hub right? are the calipers the same for the non-HD and the HD brakes? sorry for all the questions, and thanks in advance.

 

If you ordered them for a '95 or '96 C4, they're all 13"...they went standard in '95 and then the C5s came in '97.

Yes, the HD carriers will hold the 1.1" thick rotor. The standard C4s are just .81" thick.

Or you could send them back...but you'll need the HD calipers obviously.

Yes...

For the HDs, yes.

No..




Ed

 

Any news on the GTA cross lace fitment?

 

Hey Ed, do these brakes use the same templates as the Baer setup?

 

No.. I don't have the wheel anymore but I'll try and fit one up soon as I'm working on a HD kit now.

Yes...the rotors are dimentionally the same. However, the Baer hub may be different but the distances should be the same since all else is the same.


Ed

 

If the HDs are pretty close to the baer kits the crosslace rims will NOT fit, however the rims in the pic that I posted will. But I think I remember something about wheel weights may have to be moved

 

Does any one have the "LS1 brakes" or C4 brakes as a kit yet, I'm looking to buy some bigger brakes next month. I looking at Baer track from www.fbodymotorsports.com for $975 or the 1LE kit from Spohn for $850.

 

I don't think the GTA crosslace wheels will fit, I just didn't try it when I had the wheel. The LS1s definitely don't fit in them so I don't think they will.


Yes, complete LS1 and C4 kits are available.


Ed

 

If the Baer kit is the 12" then I recommend the 12" 1LE kit Spohns has. Cheaper for the same performance.

 

But then you wouldn't get the hub/rotor design which IMO is better...

Ed

 

What are the advantages of a hub/rotor design brake setup in your opinion? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just curious

 

hi guys for me too do this swap on my 83 Z28 would i need to change the spindles?

 

You don't have to repack your front wheel bearings every time you replace the brakes on the front of your car.
I'm not an expert by any means...but I'd assume that the 2 piece design would better isolate heat transfer from the rotor to the hub and vice versa. Which is always a good thing.
If I were running a front wheel that required the 12" brakes...I'd do the 1LE setup....but I'd modify it for the seperate rotor hub arrangement.

 

Seperate hubs can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on how you look it. With a seperate hub you wont have to repack the wheel bearings when you change rotors. If you didn't have a seperate hub, you would have to repack them, and repacking them with new gease is always a good thing. Wheel bearings are one of those forgotten things that leads to burnt bearings and scored spindles. Even with seperate hubs, they should be repacked regularly. With the hub and rotor cast together, this forces someone to practice a good maintenance routine. And it takes no time at all to pack them.

A seperate hub advantage is the cost of the rotor should be lower then if they are were cast together.

The 1LE have the hubs are cast with the rotor. The Baer 13" and C4 HD have seperate heavy duty hubs (C4HD uses a turned down 1LE rotor as a hub). The 12" C4 uses the small hubs from 10.5" discs, which have smaller bearings and not much area on the hubs for the wheel to center on. Plus the reg C4 rotors are thinner then the Baers and 1LEs.

 

Yes and no...it's true the standard hubs use a smaller outer bearing (Set 34 vs a Set 3 for the 1LE hubs) but both hubs are turned down to 5.9"-6.0" in diameter so both will have the same surface area for the rotor and wheel to sit on, at least that's how I do them....5.9" hub diameter.


Ed

 

No, I didn't mean that part. I ment the area where its machined down to make the bore of the wheel fit snunggly to the hub. The shoulder maybe? Can't seem to think of the technical name right now.

You can see it in this pic <img src=https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/attachment.php?s=&postid=1804348>

 

OH! That's what you meant... Yes, the HD hub has a big flat shoulder on the hub snout to assist in centering the wheel. Thanks for clearing that up.


Ed

 

High guys ok ive got this upgrade figured out thanx to all the work you guys have done researching it
The only thing i have a question about is the 1LE spindles that ill need for my 83Z28.Now when i go looking for these spindles do i look specifically for 1LE spindles or will stock spindles off of 88-92 camaro work?(are they the same).thnx in advance.

PS or can i just modify my stock ones?

 

It is so simple, just takes a grinder with a cutoff wheel, a drill w/ bit, a tap bit, and some cutting oil.

 

Ok so i do this mod to my stock spindles?Idont have to buy special 1le spindles?

 

Stock non-1LE spindle. If you try and do this to a 1LE spindle, you'd have nothing to cut and the holes are already the larger size. You either buy 1LE spindles, or you perform this mod to Non-1LE spindles to make them 1LE spindles. Here's some I just did.

 

And the idea behind using C4 HD rotors and calipers as apposed to The C5 is that you can fit it all under a stock 16"wheel?


Reason im asking is ive been looking on ebay and theres all kinds of calipers for the C5 and they even come with carriers.

but like every one else id like to do it on stock 16"wheels
and where to i get the brackets that the carrier attach to?thnx again

 

Anyone do a follow up to see if the GTA wheels fit the HDs? I've got Formula wheels right now but I'd like to know if GTAs fit. I want to run American Iron at the end of next season, or the year after and GTAs would be better for weight reasons.

 

I haven't had time to go borrow another wheel to see, but I doubt it. I swear they won't..

Ed

 

Thanks for the quick reply, Ed.

Sounds like I'll be running Formula wheels until I can afford SS or Z06 wheels. lol

 

ok i have been up all night tring to figure this out. lol

what all will i need to put this c4hd setup on my 91rs? i have iroc wheels.


can u buy this kit?
----------
well crap i know this is an old thread but....... i DID use the search feature

can someone try to help answer?

 

There is a write up in the tech section that will walk you though it step by step

 

do u have a link?

 

I think he was referring to the tech article on 1LEs but most of the upgrades of this style will be the same with a minor tweak here and there depending on which brakes you want to run. I run 1LEs and C4 HDs on my cars at the moment:

http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html

Ed

 

Ed Miller, I sent you an email via your website a couple of days ago, did you not receive it? I asked about if your C4 12" brackets worked with a BAER track set of calipers & 13" rotors.

 

i was wanting to do the c4 13inch? slip on rotors. and was wanting to get a list somewhere?

 

I'm checking my mail now, I'm always a few days backed up. Front brackets? If so, then yes they will.

Ed
----------

I understand, I just shot you a similar how to. Again, they're all very similar. Call me if you need to and we'll discuss it.

Parts list?

C4 HD (J55) calipers, pads, abutments, banjos
13" J55 rotors
modified spindle set
HD hubs
HD adapter brackets
1LE brake lines (recommended for length)

 

What kind of master is everyone running? Im looking to upgrade to the C4 HD's and am putting in a 9 bolt with PBR's int eh rear. I was reading all the posts here, but nothing said about a certain master. The only thing I see metioned is the LS1 master.

 

Anyone?

 

Use your stock disc/drum master and you'll be fine. With those brakes you will have the equivalent to a 1LE setup (hydraulically) and that stock system uses a disc/drum master. You're good.

Ed

 

Are there any other brake upgrades I must do? Prop valve?

 

Ed,
Do you have the backing plates needed to install the PBR calipers on my '87 9 bolt that came with the iron calipers?

 

is it poss to get these brakes with calipers that say corvette? and fit iroc wheels?

 

No, the Grand Sport calipers with the logo are of a slightly different casting that is too thick to be installed in 16" Irocs, which is why the Baer 13" Track kit won't fit...same casting used.

Ed