firedog

Yeah I some how figured out this is where you hang out and started reading the brake info (you guys take your brakes seriously here) the rears are very similar so most of the info can be crossed over. Let me know on the Brembos I think I'll prolly stay with what I got though 'cause you can't have 4 pistons up front and then 1 out back..... Next thing you know I'll need you to make some brackets to put the vette fronts out back

firedog

On second thought.................





Nah that might be the definition of "too much of a good thing"




But I'm still interested................

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Just to update everyone on this caliper situation, I just got the pads in today which is the good news..the bad news is that they don't come with the spring clip things so I'll have to rig up something to keep the pads in there during fitup. Pics to come over the weekend.

Ed

Dewey316

Awsome. I can't wait for the next update.

MrDude_1

the caddy dealer has thoes clips in stock... for when they messup on brake jobs.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Ok, thanks...

Now onto the next issue. The pad scrub area is taller than the rotor face on both the C5 and C4 HD rotor meaning some of the pad's material will hang over the edge of the rotor, either above or below. Maybe a 14" rotor is different, I don't know. I'll have to check it out at the dealer..


I wonder.... :

"Hello, I'd like to buy this Caddy but first I want to take a close up look at the brakes to make sure they're up to snuff. Care to throw that thing on the rack for me? And to you have a digital micrometer? Don't mind me, I won't get in your way."

Ed

88Iroc-R4race

ed, i may be able to help you out on that one
i will take a measure at work tomm.

i beleive the ford gt (frt 14") and caddy 14" are the same casting from brembo

did you have the pads?

the back of "my" pads read 07.7275.48 and 07.7275.47 below brembo

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I'm at work tonight, I'll have to look tomorrow but I have Raybestos pads, Part number PGD1050M.

I'd really appreciate any info you can give us, specifically rotor specs of OD and thickness.

Ed

Dewey316

Ed, might have to look into 2 peice rotors from Coleman for this one, I wouldn't be opposed to that option, depending on price, I may have to save up for a bit though.

On edit... I would still be interested in pad surface area. If the pad surface is no bigger than the wilwoods, it might not be worth the hassle.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I hear ya John. I'm not saying it can't be done yet but I will have to weigh whether it is worth the trouble and time to make it so when the Wilwoods already work.

On top of that, we "lost" our digital camera over Christmas so now I'm having to use our old camera for pics and I can't find the card reader to download pics...damn dated technology.

Ed

88Iroc-R4race

here is what i measured.
just remember these are ford gt rotors

Dewey316

You would happen to also have pad measurments. If there is no more pad area, and we can't get more swept area, or a larger rotor. There is no real reason to use these vs the wilwoods (other than the pure sex appeal of brembo's).

88Iroc-R4race

ford gt pad:
5 3/16" overall width
2 3/8" effective pad height
2 11/16" overall pad height

how does that compare to the Caddy pads ED?

Dewey316

So those seem to have quite a bit more pad area.

FYI, wilwood pad size for the FSL caliper.

Height -- 2.43"
Width -- 4.74"

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I came up with pretty much the same measurements that were posted above:

Pad length (backing plate): 5 3/16"
Pad material length (on top of backing plate): 5-5 1/16"
Pad material width, taken in center of pad: 2 3/8"

Looks like the same pad to me.


Ed

MrDude_1

the only reason i can come up with, is that these have weather boots on the pistons...

Br1dgeman

Hmmm, and that I have a pair of calipers on order......

Hope this can work or I will be advertising a screaming deal on Brembo calipers on the Parts for Sale board........

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Just don't open the packages and you should be able to make a return if you need to. I'm still working on it.

Ed

MrDude_1

if they can, and they're cheap enough, id buy em.. lol.

they're still killer brakes, no doubt about it. i just cant justify the price diff between them and wilwoods.... wilwoods are as cheap as alot of factory calipers...

Dewey316

These are in the pricerange of wilwoods FSL calipers. They are much cheaper than something like the SL-6.

Keep it up Ed. If you can get these going, I'm on board.

Brembo's = Awsome.

Br1dgeman

I am glad to hear you are still working on it, Ed.


MrDude_1-
The appeal of these calipers to me is the dust boots and the readily (more or less) available street pad. One complaint that I have read about with regards to the Wilwoods is the lack of a really good all-around street pad.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hawk HPS??

And Wilwood does offer a booted caliper, it's just s bit more pricey, the SL4R:

http://www.wilwood.com/Products/001-...4R14/index.asp

Ed

Br1dgeman

Yes, I know Wilwood offers a booted caliper. But for the price of one booted wilwood, you can have two Cadillac Brembos and probably have enough left for pads and hardware.

Keep working on it, Ed. I will be in line for the brackets.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

On the way out to work tonight, I took a quick measurement of the rotor's surface area where the pad will ride, the contact area, on both the C4 HD and C5 rotor. I got 2 1/8" on the backside and 2 1/4" on the front side, but you have to be a bit off the hub area so let's call it 2 1/8" on both sides. The pad's contact area width is 2 3/8" so there's 1/4" of pad material to be hanging over the sides. I don't know if I like that or not but I'll keep chugging and try to center it somehow but it will mainly depend on how the caliper will have to be mounted.

Ed

Dewey316

What is the pricetag on the 2peice rotors that the GTA kit uses? Could you get a 13" rotor in a 2 peice, with enough surface area?

I am not excited about the idea of having 1/4" of pad hanging of the end.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

It depends on the rotor you use but you're talking $400-600 or so. Honestly, a 14" rotor would be a better fit for these calipers. I don't like the exposed pad area either, it may crack there.

For instance, a Wilwood 14" rotor is.... get this...$327 at Summit, rotor only, no hat or bolts. So that's over $700 for 14" rotors to work with these calipers:

WIL-160-8399, 14' x 1.25", LEFT BRAKE ROTOR, $326.95

Next size down is 13.06" x 1.25" and that rotor is $185:

WIL-160-8165, GT ROTORS, $184.99

This could get expensive fellas...


Ed

Dewey316

a 14" may not fit behind many wheels. I really don't think it would even fit behind my 17" C5 wheels.

Br1dgeman

Hmmmm, and the 13" Wilwood rotor does not have enough area for the pads to ride on?

Br1dgeman

Nope.....it is a special order from GMParts Direct and no returns on special order parts

Bens3rdGen

I was considering this swap instead of the C5 upgrade which is pretty cheap all things considered. If it's going to cost $600 for rotors (and they could get more expansive in a couple yrs) this doesn't sound like a good swap. I really like the brembo caliper and pad choices but it's not worth the money.
If Ed can figure out how to do it with a decsent priced rotor I'll be thrilled, if not, I say we feed him to the dogs.
JK Ed, thx for doing all the R&D.

Ben

88Iroc-R4race

what about the c6 z51(13.4") or z06(14") rotors?

Bens3rdGen

The 13.4" rotor might work. I was hoping it would fit under a 17" rim. If I had the choice though, I think I would prefer to upgrade to 18" wheels rather than spend $600 on rotors.

I think the problem is that the c6 Z51 rotor doesn't have the right offset, not really sure.

Dewey316

with the thin top peice on the brembo's, the 13.4" may clear with 17's.

I myself still like the 2 peice rotor idea, even though it is expensive at the start, new rotor peices are dirt cheap, and you get the lightweight alum. hat. New rotor peices are probably only $50-$70, when it comes time to replace.

Bens3rdGen

I didn't realize that, I thought you had to spend $600 everytime you needed new rotors. The 2 piece idea actually doesn't sound too bad then.
The extra money you spend over the ls1 set-up would be worth it if you got an extra .5" of rotor and the nicer caliper.
I think I priced out the LS1 brakes and just under $600 for everything. How much do you think this set-up would cost.

Ben

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Still working, sorry fellas.

Ed

Dewey316

I'm broke right now anyway. Hopefully I'll have money by the time you get this worked out.

Br1dgeman

Any updates, Ed?

Bens3rdGen

I'll second that, how is it coming Ed?

Ben

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

The issue is finding a rotor with a "wide" enough pad sweep area. I sent 355SS a PM on his Porsche rotor setup, we may have to use those. I cannot find a Wilwood or equivalent rotor that will work, and the C5, LS1, and C4 rotors will not be wide enough for the caliper to work...can't use them. If "we" can't find a rotor wide enough to handle the pad, we're out of luck.

The rotor needs to be able to handle the 2 3/8" wide pad and will probably be at least a 14" diameter rotor.


Ed

Dewey316

Ed,

I might call coleman this week, and ask if they have a rotor blank that will fit a standard hat, and take that.

Any chance on a 13.4 C6 rotor working?

355SS

iTrader: (1)

I am running the brakes off of a porsche 993 tt the rotors are 322mm x 32mm (same as a c5 rotor) these rotors have a seperate hat that has a OD of 168mm and use a pad that is 60mm tall. The other rotor that is available is off of a 996 tt it measures 330mm x 34mm is a one piece design and uses a pad that is 65mm tall. Hope this is what you needed

Dewey316

So in theory either of those would work. Did you have to have them redrilled for the bolt chevy bolt patern?

I assume you use a rotor similar to the one on the far right of this picture? I still plan to call Coleman, knowing porsche prices, then the cost to have them redrilled, I bet a custom 2 peice rotor ends up about the same price.

355SS

iTrader: (1)

The rotor on the right is either from a 996 or the rear of a 993. Yes I had to redrill the rotor hat to fit the chevy bolt pattern. Ebmiller88 I had the same problem finding a brake rotor with a 13" diameter and a small enough hat diameter to fit the swept area of the brembo caliper when I was designing my brakes. Also the hat need to have a large offset to fit the width of a brembo caliper behind a set of wheels. The wilwood calipers are much easier to adapt to a camaro because of this issue. I know that alcon offers a rotor that will work but think the cost with custom hats is around $2000. Here is a link to a guy that does porsche retrofits http://www.prostopperformance.com/default.htm

Dewey316

Ed.

I'm e-mailing back and forth with Coleman right now. What is the offset that we need on these rotors?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Right now, I don't really know. I'm more concerned to get a rotor that will fit the pads the calipers use, then I can go from there. If I had to guess, it would be about 1.5" or so, maybe 1.7" using a HD hub.

Ed

Dewey316

Ed, the basicly told me they had rotors that would fit that pad, in a 13". They need offset diminsions and such, so they can make sure they can do a hat that will work.

I e-mailed them back, asking about options in the 1.5" - 1.7" offset range. I'll let you know what I hear. I also told them I needed a 13"x1.25" rotor, that will take a 2 3/8" pad width.

--John

Dewey316

Ok. It looks like Coleman might have what we need.

We can get an off the shelf alum. Hat (wieght only 1lbs!) For about $80/peice. Then the 13"x1.25" rotor to go with it runs for the HD Direction vane rotor, is $174/peice.

So that is about $570 for rotors (I imagine hardware will be $60 or less). I can find out if we can find rotor blanks for less. But the HD rotors from coleman, are pretty sweet rotors.

Bens3rdGen

Can these rotors be turned? If I need replacement rotor they're still gonna cost $350 right?

How many racing miles or street miles do you think these rotors will last? I don't mind spending a lot on the initial upgrade but if every brake service afterwards cost me a furtune, I'm less interested.

Other than the cost, this upgrade looks great. Bigger pad, bigger rotor and much nicer caliper than the C5 or C4 HD.
Anyone have any idea if this set-up will be lighter than either of those?

Dewey316

With the alum. rotor hat, it will be VERY light.

I'm not sure about turning the rotors, I don't see any reason why you couldn't have them turned. I'm also going to look into cheaper rotor options, the hat price is not bad, but I'll look to see if I can find diffrent rotors. They use the standard 8x7.625 rotor bolt patter. I'm sure if we look around we can find cheaper rotors.

Guest

There shouldnt be any issues turning the rotors. Really the only major concern with turning most rotors is something to hold on to. 99% of the places either need bearing races or a centered hole like the pic just above from a hubless style rotor. Aluminum hat or steel hat, I never noticed anything different. If you have some other means available you can turn just about anything (like hatless rotors, most motorcycle stuff), but almost all places will not have that equipment. I wouldnt suggest leaving the bearings in unless its a FWD application that you cant just pull the bearing out. Basically any non sealed bearing you should remove from the rotor.

If you have concerns, I'd find a real machine shop (not Autozone, Pep Boys, etc) and stick around while they do the work. Make sure the rotors arent singing for attention (unless you wanted a LP record made of steel) and the shop machinist isnt making single cut passes. You really have to cut both sides to have parallel faces and believe me you want parallel faces. Also if there are holes or slots, the guy doing the cutting needs to know how to handle that. Most places attempt to cut rotors with holes and/or slots like any other rotor and thats a mistake, they need to have less cut on each pass than a comparable smooth face rotor unless you like low spots on the trailing side of the hole (trailing side in relation to where the cutting bit was).