TB2

iTrader: (1)

What do you want to know? There's not much more to tell. It was that easy. I did have to make a small bushing on the end of the rod because the hole in the end of the rod for the HydraBoost was slightly larger. The hardest part is having someone machine down the end of the master cyl. For me that's easy. (My brother's a really good machinst!) You can not use the Astro master because the brake lines come out the opposite side of the master, and would go right into the strut. Unfortunetly I won't be able to test it out for a couple of months until I get the rest of the updates I'm working on done.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

just jot down as much info as you can and everything you can....what year astro van was it...all the good stuff...

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

You confused me when you said the bore of the hydroboost was smaller than the bore of the MC, yet you machined the MC and cut out .080 from the bore, making it even larger? Forgive me if I'm just confused and mucked up what you said.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

If you look at a MC and brake booster you should understand. The MC casting slides into the booster, With the hydraboost (or brake booster) is a smaller diameter than the MC so the MC will not fit in the hydraboost.
Am I correct TB2?

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

that's the way I understand it also.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

Yea. you guys got it right. Sorry, I didn't explain myself that well. The outside dia. at the back of the master cyl. is larger than the bore of the Hydroboost. The material at the back of the master is about .250 thickness, so you won't be comprimising the casting of the master by taking .040-.050 off of the outside dia. Please don't count me on the exact amount to take off, as I had it done months ago, and don't remember the exact #. I bought the Hydroboost off craigslist a while back. It came off an Astro van. I'm pretty sure it was a 1994, but I'll have to check for sure when I get home.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

so a 94 astro van and its hydroboost brake system....how do the lines work from the van...can you use them or do we have to do some crazy lines to make it work...if anyone is going to attemp this b4 i do take a massive ammounts of pics and notes...finally good brakes with zero vacuum and a blower....cant wait...

TB2

iTrader: (1)

I didn't get the lines from the Astro with mine, but I doubt you could use the stock lines anyway. V6 vs. V8, mounted upside down, and in a different location, etc. Stock hoses wouldn't work with mine anyways, as I'm not running a stock pump. I'm running a circle track PS pump made by KRC. You will want to tee off both lines to run to the HydraBoost. For the pressure hoses you can run either hi pressure hoses made for you by a Hydraulics shop, or use Steel Braided. Fitting adaptors are available from many of your Circle Track Speed shops.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Clearance between the strut mount and the master cylinder looks pretty tight. Do you think you'd be able to run this with aftermarket strut mounts (J&M or Spohn) or an aftermarket master cylinder that requires the lines to come out on the driver's side of the cylinder?

TB2

iTrader: (1)

Yea, it is tight. Any idea how much room youd need for an aftermarket Strut mount. I tried running the Astro master that has the lines exiting the Drivers side, and it's too tight to work. I'll measure the clearance when I get home.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I know that the Spohn ones are an inch taller than stock, and from the pictures, I just don't think that can happen. Hrm.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

If it's only the height that changes, you'd probably be ok. When I get home from work I'll check what it is and post it.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Ok so i called one of my yards today from work, and he has a booster from a 94 astro van with the master still attached to it but no lines for a 100 bux fair deal no?

...can i use the mc from the astro or do the lines come on the wrong side....and how much pressure is there running from the power steering pump to the booster, can you use tranny fluid hose or do you really have to have some high strenght stuff...more pics would help i wanna try to figure out what i can use for lines to make them myself...

and how much is that nice circle track setup in that pic...looks mighty nice....got links...

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Well, the one side is gonna be high pressure, which is usually metal tubing with pressed in rubber ends for the power steering pump, and you don't want to use rubber and hose clamps for that. The return line is low pressure I believe, and can be regular hose. Personally if/when I do this, I'm gonna run braided stainless A/N the whole way because it will work great and look the best.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

yeah i will most likelly go with an lines and stainless myself...in black for me tho....but i was just thinking hence im posting here like crazy....i was trying to find a master cylinder that looks better then the one in the camaro and performs better....like wilwoods mc's but they all have lines on the drivers side which we cant use....anyone got any cool aftermarket mc's that we cna possibly use during this swap....

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

I think the ls1 or c5/6 masters will work with no maching.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

So, here I've been for a few hours looking up exactly that. Seems that you're either getting a thirdgen F-body MC or a fourthgen F-body MC.

Or....

CPP's MCVP-1. It has the line exit on the bottom of the MC, so it would work in this situation. Need to bend new lines though. And I'd get the 1" bore model, not the 1 1/8". I *think* it has provisions for our sensor that goes in our prop block as well. I read a manual somewhere and for the life of me can't find the thing. It also has a built in adj prop valve.

Linky:
http://www.classicperform.com/NewPro...V-1/MCPV-1.htm
http://www.classicperform.com/tech_a...ll_Booster.htm
http://www.classicperform.com/Instru.../PDF/MCPV1.pdf

Oh! And if anyone has a OD micrometer on hand, could you get the dimensions for the part of the MC that slides into the booster? I wanna know if the MCVP has a larger or smaller OD than our stock MC's, to see if it'd need to be turned down as well.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the slow response, I've been busy. I've attatched a couple pics that will hopefully help. I tried the Astro Master and there is not enough room for the lines coming out of the master. Here is a link to some hose that you can use. They also sell all of the fittings and adaptors.

http://www.krcpower.com/catalog_c269958.html

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Wow. That's tight. I dunno if the MCPV will fit in there. And I really doubt it will with aftermarket strut mounts. Only one way to find out, and that's to test fit it. And all the components are made by different companies, so it's gonna have to be one of us to test fit them.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

I think it will work with the stock 3rd gen master and the spohn upper strut mounts. looks tight but looks like it will fit.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

ok so far i got this, shopping list

94 astro van brake booster
third or forth gen master cylinder
high pressure lines
fitting for booster
fitting for power steering pump
fitting for steering box

what else do we need, whats the diff in a 4th gen mc then ours...lines go in the same place no, does it also have to be turned down to fit into the booster from the van or what...what size fittings are on the booster the pump and the steering box....for AN fitting...and what kinds pressure is the High pressure line, i found some Auroquip hose which is 1000psi, good enough or no?

im this close to gettin all this stuff and doin a swap but its really cold in ny now...and i have my rear swap...but if anyone sees anything that im missing let me kno...

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I just read the specs for what you want in a high pressure power steering line, and it's recommended 1700 psi. Eaton makes a hydraulic hose rated to 6k, but that's the only rating on any of their hoses I could find. Good luck!

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products...Hose_11-38.pdf

hoses are no problem they have them from 75 to 12000 psi.
----------
also the guy at hydratech recommended a power steering tank if you are using a remote pump. I can find the link if that is what you are going with.also he recommended that you want 2.2-2.8 gallons per minute on the pump and he said it operates more efficiently with 1300-1600 psi.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

And it's also recommended to braze/weld a second return line onto your power steering housing so that both the braking and power steering have their own return lines.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

i have mixed views on hydroboost, i like it it seems to have alot better pedal feel and stronger clamping, but if you ever break your belt/hose it can be scarry, this has happend before to me before with an older motorhome, its a wierd feeling to not have power brakes or steering, but its just something you got to be prepared for "INCASE OF" that way you dont panic when and if it happens, other wise i love hyddroboost, id like to do an install on my camaro after reading this

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

the resevoir is supposed to hold enough to stop you a couple times if that happens.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

i got a local guy that just came by my shop to drop of a business card and he makes custom hoses up to 5000psi so im gonna go with him since hes local and hea uses eaton hose and fittings....so if anyone is around NY i can get you hoses made we only need one high pressure hose right....???


anyone got a pic of a 4th gen master and does it need to be turned down also and are all 4th gen masters teh same on the 6 cylinder cars and v8?

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

here is a pic of the third gen and 4th gen masters. I am pretty sure you don't have to machine down the 4th gen master but not positive on it though.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

the tank you could probably source from the astro van when you grab the hydroboost unit, if you're using a remote pump application.

that's how my 2000 astro is set up.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

this is the one he recommended. he said it almost eliminates slosh that causes aeration in the power steering system. he mainly recommended it for street driving.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

so does anyone know if we have to machine down the 4th gen master cylinder or not, if we dont, ill just get the 4th gen mc insted of a new third gen and machine it...cheaper and more custom anyway then stock stuff from 87 ha....so anyone....????? i wanna order this stuff at the same time and if i dont go snowboardin this weekend ill save the money to spare on the hydroboost....time is of the esence ha...

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

looking around hydratechs forum it looks like the hydro assist register is 1.650". at least I think
http://www.hydratechbraking.com/foru...ghlight=camaro

also from what I have seen for our cars you need the short pedal rod. there is also a long version that I believe is not compatible.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

i donno...im tryin to figure out the size of the back of the 4th gen mc vs the 3rd gen mc

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

If you can, check partsamerica.com and autozone.com to see if either of the stores has either master cylinder in stock. They should have a caliper/micrometer on hand so you could measure that part.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

here is th ee-mail I got from Paul.

"The fourth gen GM F body MC’s and the C5 / C6 Vette MC’s are normal two piston design MC’s that would fit into the typical hydroboost unit without the need for any machining (normal rear register sizes). It sounds like you have plenty to keep you busy while we are temporarily out of commission: http://www.hydratechbraking.com/MOVING2.jpg



Paul"

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

so its a go with the 4th gen master cylinder and no machining....ok sounds good....4th gen mc are the same from v6 to v8 and whatnot correct.?

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

as far as I know.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

well it had a line blow that blew all fluid for the hydroboost, and then caused the belt to go bye bye, not a good feeling doing 75+ MPH in a motorhome towing a car LOL, that was a 1982 on a P-30 chassis 454 dont know if it makes a diffy (i miss that a 454 with a choppy cam, headers, and glasspacks darn if it didnt get some looks from people ) ,our new one is on a Ford with a 460, dont recall if it has a hydoboost like system as its never had any trouble so i cant relate to just a belt break....LOL..... like i said its just something you got to be aware of "INCASEOF" so you dont panic, just a bit of caution thats it

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Just ordered a Hydroboost unit from a '95 Chevy Astro (92-93 are one style, 94-95 are another). $24.95 + $20 S&H Dunno when it'll be here, but will give measurements of the thing when it does get here.

Oh, just called CPP. To the tech's knowledge he hasn't gotten *any* feedback on whether or not the MCPV-1 Fits on a 82-92 Camaro, but he did say that they fit into a hydroboost unit without turning them down. Since the hydroboost unit is on it's way, I might just order the MCPV-1, and see if it fits. If not, 10 % restock fee. I could also give a 100% confirmed to it fitting with the stock brake booster as well as the hydroboost.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

where did you get the booster unit for so cheap i got one from a yard and they want a 100 bux for it and then i have to get a 4th gen master cylinder and have the custom lines made....if i can get one for cheaper then a 100 bux that be nice and a cheap 4th gen mc would be even nicer...

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

www.car-part.com

Cheapest junkyard wanted $24.95 with warranty. $20 shipping to Az from Oh.

Should have had them send me a 4th gen MC. $10.

And you shouldn't need to have custom lines made. Make 'em yourself with a tubing bender. They sell lengths of brake line at Vatozone, Schmuck's, Nada, and any other fine automotive parts dealer.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

$100 for used is expensive. I bought mine for $30 off of some guy on Craigs List. Rock Auto has rebuilt for not much more than that.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

yeah im gonna look at some other yards or even local parts stores, this yard is huge and i do a lot of business with them, but they are pricy...so im gonna look around, booster 4th gen mc and some nice lookin lines from my local line guy.....does anything have to be done to the rod cept for the busning it no cutting or anything right?>

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

anyone get the booster yet...anyone get any parts yet or try this

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

anyone got their parts....

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I got my brake booster the other day. It's filthy, and I will need to clean it up a bit. Dunno if it even works, and with only thirty days to find out, I don't think I'll be able to return it regardless. On the plus side, it's worth $75 core to Parts America and about the same to Autozone.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

well clean her up and lets see some pics, are you gonna try to get a 4th gen mc and see if it fits....

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Finally cleaned the pig. Jeezus. I thought my JY serpentine brackets were bad. But I must say, someone at GM used their brain. "Hey, this is cast iron, and will be covered in power steering fluid, AND brake fluid.... Let's coat it in a shiny black stuff that's easy to clean." Dunno what it is. Seems too shiny and thick to be paint, but I have trouble thinking GM might have actually *gasp* spent the money to powdercoat it.

It appears that the large hole on the hydroboost unit is 18mm x 1.5 and the smaller hole is 16mm x 1.5. I have no idea how to identify if it's just a metric fitting, or a pipe thread, etc. It also appears the rear register size is about 1.62"

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Those are what are known as Saginaw fittings. They are a straight thread. When used on P/S systems they sometimes use an O-ring. Other times are metal-to-metal for a seal. The 18 mm & 16 mm are the same sizes as the metric P/S box & pump used on 3rd gens.

Fittings are available for standard rubber lines and for AN lines. Note that these are high pressure (1200 - 1400 psi) and the proper fittings/hose is required. For AN they are steel, not aluminum. And the hose is made for P/S systems.

As for yours being coated, GM painted/treated/whatever ones that go into the replacement parts supply line. This is to prevent them from rusting while on the shelf. So your may have been a replacement and is newer then the vehicle it came off of. I got a P/S box from a JY that was painted. Thought the previous owner did it until I saw the 2 letter code stamped on it.

RBob.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Ah, good to know. So it has a better chance of still being good than the older one. And looks better to boot!

I had managed all of the research on power steering AN lines and line fittings for another user a while back, but those fittings did throw me for a loop. Summit has fittings that go from AN-6 to the proper 18mm and 16mm x 1.5 thread pitch with O-rings, and they're stainless steel. I'd assume they'd be good for this application, and then just hook up an AN -6 fitting with whichever angle bend I want that's approved for power steering.

Which seems to unfortunately mean that this goes FURTHER on hiatus. Unless someone has a good deal on some AN lines. The fittings for the boost unit are cheap, but building the lines and those fittings can get a bit pricey. I think I'll invest in some wire clothes hangers so I can do some mock line running in the engine bay to figure out where they'll run and how much I'll need.

Edit: Oh, and this seems like the time to ask, for my serp conversion I bought a new PS pump. Delco. They took my core pump, but the new pump doesn't have the bolt or the stud-type thing on the back! Any idea where I can get those?