sfmaro

hello, I want to change my booster and master cylinder to a hydraboost setup on my 91 z28. I was wondering if anyone knew if its possible to take one off a astro and make it work on a 3rd gen i prefer not to spend around 500 from hydratech

chesterfield

This topic seems to be coming up alot lately. I have a little experience with adapting these to non-hydroboost cars, but not 3rdgen. there's alot of diy mods involved. I'm just guessing , but the astro van unit would probably be a good starting point. I went to the trouble to make a composite pic of some different brackets used to illustrate the first problem to overcome. These are as they came off the internet so reliability is questionable.

1983 cadillac seville(as mentioned in another thread)
1991 Camaro z28 (rotated and resized-not sure how accurate)
1983 cadillac seville (image flipped to show bracket angle if used upside down)
1995 astro (flat bracket-no good)
1996 astro (image flipped to show bracket angle if used upside down)

Finding the right bracket angle is important as you can see, the pedal rod will bind if not directed straight into the unit. also I belive the f-body requires an upward angle to avoid hitting the inner fender well/shock tower. There's probably a dozen more diferent brackets out there in the junkyards to choose from. Flipping the unit upside down is perfectly fine. Hydratech does it on some of their kits. You're still goig to have to dril new holes in the bracket.
This is just the first of many mods, I got to go now. If you still wanna be the guinea pig, I'll be checking back.

sfmaro

well what i was thinking was taking off the bracket from the booster and pedal rod and welding it on the hydrobooster from the astro

chesterfield

That's probably a good way to go. I would consider rotating it upside down. With it upside down you can run the hoses under the m/c. Rightside up you'd either go right towards the headers, or left over the shock tower. I don't have an f-body so I can't say for sure what would be best.
When you go shopping for a unit, stay away from the 70's hydroboost I because they're old and they had a problem leaking onto the floor. hydroboost II didn't have the external accumulator and didn't stop as good if engine stalls. Make sure you get the tubing nuts on the booster. Especially the 18mm one. Maybe grab the hoses-you might get lucky and they'll fit.If you have the room to fit one of the saginaw p pumps from a hydroboost car or truck you should look for one. It has a larger resevoir and two return lines. If you see any of these pumps you should grab the flow control valve just incase you need more flow and pressure.

Randy82WS7

lots of the B body cars got the diesel 350 oldsmobile engine from 80 to 85 and had the hydroboost system

virtually all models of the full size RWD cars could be ordered with the 350 diesel

ive owned a few so far, not rare, but not really common these days now either, as most died and were scrapped, unreliable, problematic engine

but you could find one and take all the parts including the p/s pump and pushrod and so on and fit it onto the f body with some minor mods


look on the big 78-85 oldsmobiles and caddies and buicks and caprices and wagons and some of the G body cars and so on

youre bound to pop the hood on one and find a diesel

just check the dash for diesel fuel only warning, then you wont even have to pop hoods

trucks got them too from 78-83 but are less common and the hydroboost mounting pattern on the firewall is different than cars




good luck

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

the 88 to 98 C/K truck bodystyle used a smaller 4 bolt bracket compared to the larger 6 bolt bracket for 78 to 87 C/K Hydroboost systems

I have interchanged the Olds Cutlass diesel (A body 1978 to 1985) and the B-body car units. They seem to bolt up the same (with each other, not F-cars...)

kyleiroc88

somebody should figure this out. a buddy of mine has very little vaccum on his iroc and i was just talking to him bout this today. i was going to do it to my car til the motor went and the genIII motor i have now has great vacuum, but even so itd be nice to clean up under the hood and give us better braking.

has anyone tried fitting any of these boosters in our cars? ive heard of plenty of vette guys and g bodys doing it lets hop on the bus w them.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I am currently working on fitting one up for my Firebird. I am using an old 3rd gen booster, cutting the rivets at the back where the vacuum unit is fastened and bolting on a unit from an 85 G series van (1/2 GMC that was factory diesel). I may have it done soon, but I am restricted with my stupid apartment for now. I won't have a house until the end of the year so you may have to wait a few months for mine.

One thing is for sure; I WILL have a hydroboost unit fitted to my cars. I have been using them for years with my diesel stuff and I love them.

Don't forget, you must also make a return fitting to the pump for excess from the booster. The early cars that tee'd this return into the normal return line from the steering gear had problems. You have to weld or epoxy a piece of tubing to the pump housing so that the oil returns smoothly and separately from both sources.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

A guy over on the S10Planet has a kit for the S-series. I believe its from a C/K Deisel truck and he did AN fittings and braided lines. Made the otherwise stock S10 brakes stop on a dime....no pun intended =). The actuating rod I believe needs 2B modified. We were discussing my TA and using one. He was thinking that the mounting would be the same but the angle and actuating rod might need 2B different.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

The rod is pretty long for our cars with that big spacer bracket that we are all using. That's why I'm using the van unit; it has a pretty long rod as well...

I think the G-van rod leaves enough to work with...

chesterfield

Summit is selling one for 1982-2000 camaro/firebird


The bracket is a bolt together setup that looks like it would be easy to duplicate. I believe I read on hydratechs site that the stock m/c register doesn't fit the hydroboost and that they machine their units to get them to accept the f-body m/c. masters that fit hydroboost units that i've seen all have brake lines exiting from the opposite side. So this way or that way some mods may be required to get the m/c to fit. I hope I'm wrong. good luck.

kyleiroc88

i wish they would just sell the bracket and tell us which vehicle the unit came off of.. you know its not custom made. and why do we have to have a big spacer that points skyward, i was looking at my firewall last night it would easily clear the strut tower by coming out straight, the only reason it goes up is for the vacuum booster to clear. itd look much cleaner to bolt the unit to the firewall than to have some 4" spacer in between it and the firewall.

kyleiroc88

i wonder if someone were to buy the one from summit if there would be any numbers on the hydroboost unit that would reveil what it was originally built for, then you could measure the brackets and duplicate them, send it back, and pick up the used unit from the junk yard for $40.

kyleiroc88

if we could figure ou what unit they use, or which would be the best candidate for us to make one (the astro vans seem offly popular) i would not mind picking one up from a junk yard and seeing what i can fab up, i just wast to know which has the most correct angle of the pushrod and directly bolts to our mc.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

There was a guy that supposedly bought a Hydratech, but he never posted the part number. They include some detailed shots, but I haven't been able to visually pick a match.

http://hydratechbraking.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48

Also, posting for update notification. I want one of these.

kyleiroc88

lol that link was from me a couple of years ago, i was just enquiring. i forgot about it once i replaced the motor and it hasnt come up until now my buddy's z needs something has very little vacuum

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

While you guys are waiting for one of us (hopefully me!) to get this done, don't forget that a vacuum pump kit for a small block chevy is easy to install and not horribly expensive.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I just sent an email to black_highway who supposedly bought the thirdgen kit from Hydratech. If he gets back to me (with any luck) we should be able to get some good up close pictures of their bracketry, pump, and any part numbers still on the pump/etc.

kyleiroc88

anyone get one installed yet or info on the hydratech?

JPrevost

I contacted them over a year ago and got very little help. I've had this project sitting in my basement for over 2 years now and can't push it up on my priority list. What I can do is take measurements if anybody needs them.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I contacted them not too long ago, and got a response, I just forgot to post up what I got.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

The attached PDF shows them re-using the old booster bracket mount and your pictures show some aluminum piece... what's that about?

It also looks like the original hydroboost is upside down. Are the lines hooked to the bottom of the unit? I see the accumulator on the other side as well...

Are these pictures from someone you know? How does the system feel?

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

The pictures don't show it, but the old booster bracket is attached to the billet bracket, which then bolts to the booster. It appears that the lines are attached to the inner bottom of the booster, so I would say it's upside down, which is what people in this thread have figured.

And these are the pictures they sent me when I asked if they had any installed pics, and if the kits had been updated with the billet plates instead of the plates they had pictures of in the old style. It answered both questions. This is a customer's installed pics though, and not their own. I'm sure if they had the chance, they'd take a lot more pictures.

I love the CS144 and the Accel Wideband O2. Might even be someone from on here.

Edit: Just read the instructions, the pictures in it are of the old setup, before the billet bracket. The booster mounted to an adapter plate and then to the original mounting bracket. The new adapter plate is a thicker (nicer looking) billet unit.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

My 1984 diesel suburban has hydro boost breaks.
Hydro boosted breaks are better then vaccum boosted breaks. Out of all the vehicles I have driven my suburban has the nicest smoothest breaks out of them all.
This break setup has no problem stoping my 5000lb suburban with 31.5'' tires.
I would like to put hydro boost on my car but it is kind of far down on the list.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I am not interested in doing this but it almost looks like you could just drill the rivets out the 3rg gen booster and slap that bracket right on that hydraboost from the pictured one. If it doesnt directly bolt on I do not think a spacer would be all that difficult to make.

I also think that if you sort of did a 2 step process you could eliminate the booster bracket. I know there are people here that have converted the 3rd gen to a manual brake setup. If you figure out how they do that with the pedal assebly and the angle there should be no reason that one could not just bolt any of the hydra boosts right to the firewall.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

does anyone know what hydro boster they are using, cuz i work at a shop and i can get them for a discount for eveyone probably...so if anyone can figure this out...that be nice...plus i need it...blown motors dont make much vaccuum....

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

They weren't exactly telling me what unit they were using. I asked, and they simply said, "It's a 2007 Production GM Hydroboost Unit" and I tried looking up hydroboost units for 2007 vehicles, and came up empty handed.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

i doubt its a 2007 unit...im sure sumone can figure this out....then we can just make the damn kits actually affordable...i know they use a stock booster, tehy didnt design or built it...so fork over the info guys hah

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

anyone?

robertg

iTrader: (2)

i don't think that the hydroboost in an 07 model would be much different from the ones already available... maybe look at 1999-newer full-size trucks (mostly 2500, 2500HD, and 3500 models, but some 1500 models), 2000 and newer suburban and tahoe models, and 2002 and newer avalanche models. these hydro units look similar to the one under the hood of my 2000 astro van except for the master cylinder being different.

i see these trucks in the shop everyday at work. even the couple of 2008 2500HD's i've seen come in have a hydroboost unit that looks pretty close to the ones from a tahoe, suburban, etc.

fwiw, i wouldn't mind seeing how a hydro-equipped thirdgen would stop. i know it stops an astro van pretty damned good, works wonders on the 2500HD trucks too.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

do you know how much one of these are from the parts dealer or do i have to bother my gm guy...id like to know...cuz if i can get one, fabbing up some hi pressure lines wont be a big deal...

robertg

iTrader: (2)

your best bet would be to check with your gm guy. i work in service unfortunately, not in parts.

i know for sure that hydroboost is available on the tahoe model suv's. i have a customer whose 2005 tahoe was just in for service, and it's equipped with hydroboost.

bingo

iTrader: (2)

There is a guy that posts on the engine swap section that has a hydroboost setup. I don't remember his name, but it was in a firebird.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

what motor is on that tahoe, its a 60 vortech right....it should be able to hook up to our power steering pump....im gonna have to check this out...if you can snap some pics of a stock setup maybe i can figure sumthing out

robertg

iTrader: (2)

the customer's 05 tahoe i'm referring to is the 5.3 liter enigne.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Yup... A10BEAV I think is how its spelled. He has a black TA with LS2 swap I think... His set up is real clean, and after seeing his car, I seriously considered going to hydro. That big booster is in the way of a bunch of stuff...clutch master being one of the biggest.

J.

To save you the trouble... here is a link to the thread with his car...Ugh...and I still cant get links to work...so you have to delete the spaces after the periods...

www. thirdgen. org/techboard/ltx-lsx/406796-ls2-up-running.html

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

anyone ever get anything done with this? I talked to the guy at Hydratech. Seems like a great guy and after talking with him I will more than likely buy from him. There are alot of things that he already has figured out. I talked to someone that did a photo write up about installing the kit on a 71 vette and he said the pump is from a 3/4 ton Chevy pickup. there are two versions one with a reserve resovoir and one that doesn't have it. it is the one that has it. and hydratech (I think his name is Tom but don't remember for sure)said the power steering should flow between 2.2-2.8 gpm and 1300-1600 psi. He recommended the LS series pumps but not for sure if that is a gm series or if he is talking about LS1 pumps. also said if you are using a remote resovoir to use this one http://www.pscmotorsports.com/produc...91ba70571e45cc because of the baffling.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I was in the recycle yard the other day and happened across a '91 or '92 Safari (Astro) van with hydroboost on it. What a compact unit, I was surprised at how small they are. I did get a couple of measurements and ended up having a question.

The question has to do with the ports. There are 2 high pressure ports with saginaw fittings. Then a third lower pressure port with a 3/8" hose barb.

Why the 3 ports?

The master cylinder mounting studs have a 3-3/8" center-to-center spacing.

The unit was about 6-1/2" from the fire wall to the master cylinder mount.

It also had a small accumulator on it. It looked to be a straight unit as previously posted in this thread.

RBob.

bingo

iTrader: (2)

Some of the hydraboost setups I have seen, like the astrovan, have a vacuum line that goes to the engine. It provides vacuum to fill the little reservoir as a backup if the engine stalls.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Not on this one.

You have two high pressure ports, one coming from the power steering pump and one going to the high side of the steering box. The hose barb is an overflow return that runs back to the pump.

One part of running a hydroboost system that is often overlooked is the pump housing reservoir. You need one pressure out to the hydroboost and then two low pressure return lines, one from the hydroboost and one from the steering box. GM used to tee the returns together, but if you look at everything made after 1981 or so, you'll see they don't do it anymore. It can create a problem if you are braking hard or pumping the brakes hard and trying to steer hard at the same time.

All new systems that I have worked on have the two returns running separately back to the reservoir. You can simply take yours off and weld on the second return line barb near the top where the fill cap is, it works fine like that.

SuperchargedRS

How bout a CUCV / HMMWV brake setup, probably can get a setup for under 100 bucks (booster/master, pump, lines etc)






that's off ebay (over priced though)

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...%3Den%26sa%3DN

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

the problem really isn't finding a setup that will work. it is mounting the bracket and having all the correct angles to insure nothing will bind up. That is the whole reason the Hydratech setup is so much because he has already done all the R&D work. I have seen alot of hydroboost pumps and have only found a couple that wouldn't work but haven't found one that the connecting rod is the right length or that would bolt up easily. although the mounting part is easy to solve but getting the right rod length would be alot of trial and error. there is a post early up about the 3rd gen master cylinder being to big for the register which is correct but the 4th gen f-bodies and the c5/c6 vette masters will also fit no problem.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Interesting. With the high side plumbing in that manner it should make it easier to use. No need to split the high side out of the pump to the P/S and hydro units individually.

One thing about re-cycle yards is that a lot (most all) vehicles are in various states of disassembly. Tough to figure out how things were supposed to be.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Would you know how the connecting rod is attached to the hydro boost unit? Is it possible to unscrew it, or is it welded or a permanent attachment to a piston or such?

I was tempted to grab the Safari van one. But didn't want to put out the dough if in the end I wasn't able to adapt it. I'll be going back this weekend or next. I'll see if I can find one that is in further state of disassembly where it can be easily un-bolted and looked at. Also going to bring some better measuring tools.

RBob.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Most of them should screw out so as to have some adjustability. You mean the connector to the brake pedal, right? That's the one I mean...

The problem is that usually the rod end is bigger than the non hydro unit. That makes for a sloppy fit unless you bush the rod end to make it right. When I was doing pick ups, I used to swap the brake pedal as well to have the bigger pin. For cars, I usually measure with calipers and get a brass/bronze bushing. I have had them made at the machine shop for a few bucks.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Those are your standard 73-87 pickup usage parts. They were used factory from 78-91, depending on GVW and gas or diesel. The mounting plates are HUGE and very unsuitable to our firewalls.

I am leaning hardest towards 83-ish G-vans that were diesel equipped. With the longer connecting rod, it gives me the option to shorten the length for a perfect fit.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

Alright guys, heres a couple of pics of the HydraBoost installed on my 84 TransAm. It came off of a mid 90's Astro van. It was easy. I drilled out the rivets from the Vac Booster, and reused the Brkt. The rods the right length, and it bolted right up. It puts the master slightly forward of the position that it was in. The only problem that I had was the Bore in the HydraBoost is slightly smaller then the back of the Master Cyl. Since the back of the Master had plenty of material, and it only needs like .080 taken off of the dia., it was the easier way to go. I won't be able to try it out till spring time though, as I'm doing some other projects with the car as well.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Nice job!

TB2

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, with the cam I'm running it had very little vac to run the brakes, (even with a vac.can)and since I'm switching out the power steering and pulleys to a KRC setup, it made sense to get it all done now.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

wow, tb2 you gotta do a write up on this for everyone and a parts list if you can to help us out man, it will be easier then answering 50 ppls questions for months to come....pics would be nice tooo...a lot of them...thanx in advance man....