ASE doc

Sorry, for photos of the installed kit, just look at the top of the page.

BTW, 87350IROC, what struts and lower control arms are those. I'm running the Koni Reds. Your's almost look like the Koni Sports.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

The control arms are Spohn's and the struts are indeed Koni Sports. Wonderful struts. How do you like the reds?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Here are a few extra pictures for you.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

GICATA

Awesome...and that's what these cars should have came with from GM.

Thx for the pics.

GICATA

I was just giving you a bad time....Thanks for the write ups guys.

ASE doc

I like the Koni Reds very much. They provide a firm ride and really optimized the car's cornering. I have them set on 2. I also have the reds in back, set on 2.

Your suspension looks very clean and nice. I really like those fabricated LCAs.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Excellent.

My stuff is clean because I'm always fixing my car rather than driving.

ASE doc

Yeah. Mine spends most of its time under its protective cover in the garage, or in the shop getting one more new touch. I just don't get enough time to drive it. The suspension isn't as clean as when it was done 12 years ago. I need those Spohn LCAs. I also want their solid 34mm front sway bar and matching rear bar.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

what booster/master cylinder are you guys running with the 13" kits? what about for 14" CTSV/ZO6/5G SS stuff?

I have LS1 rears and C5 13" fronts and with stock master/stock 89 J65 proportioning valve/stock booster, my brakes still suck. I've bleed them alot and it doesnt seem to help. Does feel like it has heavy front bias but cant lock up tires no matter what. Pedal feels terrible too but I have decent amount of engine vacuum so it shouldnt have a problem.

Stopping at the track at 140 mph is scary, doesnt seem to be any better than when I had stock fronts with LS1 rears.... I am expecting more out of this C5 kit. My 99 TA has pretty good brakes with good pedal feel, should i get 4th gen booster/master combo?

Or is it in the proportioning valve?

ASE doc

Have you taken the time to properly season the rotors and bed the pads? They won't work correctly until you do. I am still breaking mine in and I wont know for a little while if I will need to swap out the proportioning valve or master.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

How long does that take? At first the car felt like it had no brakes and then I figured it was just because it wasnt bedded in yet. My buddy who works on brakes for a living said the same thing.

So i proceeded to do some driving and making soft stops, then medium stops and slamming on it occassionally and it did seem to get better but its been long enough that it should be bitting harder now.

I changed the brakes on the 99 TA with new pads/rotors and it didnt take long before they were bitting hard again.

I took it to the track and doing some harder stops from 130-140 mph and it doesnt seem to stop the car as well as I hoped....still have to fight it to stop in time for the last turnoff

Even with all this, i notice the front end nose dives alot more than it used to, so it seems like the fronts are grabbing harder than before, so it may need a valve to distribute the braking force. I have a force measuring device I plan to test the lines with to see how its distributed.

ASE doc

I haven't got the LS1s on the back of mine yet. They're sitting in boxes in my bedroom. Still running the crappy Delco Moraines. I had to stop suddenly last weekend and I will say that I definitely noticed the difference from the stock fronts. Still really need those bigger brakes out back. I'll post my impression of the overall performance once everything is done and broken in.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

This is not normal. I am using the Wilwoods with my stock 25yr old booster and master with none of these issues. In fact I have had these brakes out on he track with a 130-50mph slowdown every lap with 10 other turns inbetween. The condition you are describing would be incredibly dangerous on the road course. I think you have a serious issue somewhere in your system. Did everything work ok when you installed the C5 brakes?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah it works ok. The stock brakes were NEVER great on this car, and now with the LS1 rears and C5 fronts, I expected alot more from this setup and it doesnt seem to be there yet. I dont know, maybe it needs a new booster and master, but I'm gonna try a proportioning valve mod to see if I can adjust pressures to get it to feel better.

ASE doc

My pedal effort is higher than it might be just because of the huge cam and resultant low manifold vacuum. I've thought about going with a manual master cyl and doing away with the booster. Even with what I have, I know that I could easily plant my face in the steering wheel with a good stab of the brake pedal. I don't notice alot of nose dive but that might be the springs and struts. I expect that with the LS1 rears, I will have very good brakes.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah, i was thinking my car has more front bias than rear with the way it seemed like the front wants to dive alittle. I did have my shocks set somewhat light the last time I had it out which makes a difference. I have to make sure they are stiff and try again. Still think it has alittle nose dive, but i just cant get the thing to stop hard. Like 20 mph slow roll and stab the brake, it just doesnt feel as strong as I'd like. I had a deer run out the last time I took the car for a drive and i hit the brakes so hard the car felt ok and actually shut off on me for some reason, but i had plenty of stopping room anyway. I dont know, i just expect more out of it. I need to take some measurements

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

The prop valve should help your balance some. But it will not affect your front brakes. Even with zero rear brakes, I would expect the C5's to feel better than you are describing.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I wish I could borrow someones C5 vette and get an idea what they should feel like.

bigdavesiroc

hey 87350IROC, how long from the time you ordered your brakes till the time you received them? seems by your post is was months. i would like to also get a kit from ed however, i go back overseas again here in a couple months. did you order the fronts and rears at the same time?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

IIRC it was about a month from order to delivery. It took me a while to install them b/c I was replacing the entire suspension and steering at the same time as well.

My rear brakes are still stock. I use them with an adjustable proportioning valve and they seem to work ok. I am planning to purchase rear matching Wilwoods if Ed ever gets around to designing the brackets for them.

bigdavesiroc

cool, thanks.

ASE doc

Last I heard, Ed is not taking orders for complete kits until further notice. Check his website at flynbye for more info. It took me several months to get my kits. Ed is very busy and he got behind. But what are you gonna do? No one else makes brakes like this for our cars.

ASE doc

My wife is so happy to have her bedroom back! Lol. I finally got around to installing my rear brakes yesterday. After several months of taking up space in front of our closet.

While I know that many are waiting for Ed to develop a Wilwood kit for the rear to match the 13" Wilwood fronts that I have, I must say that these LS1 12" rears do compliment the huge front brakes quite nicely. Certainly better than the leaky, tiny 10.5" Delco Moraines I just threw in the scrap pile. The install went very well. Had to make small modifications to allow for my LCA relocation brackets but that was simple. I may speak to Ed about the flex line from the frame to the axle as I had to istall mine upside down as the junction block seemed to be installed that way. Still worked fine and all the lines and parts all fit very well.

This may not be a job for a beginner though. Ive been a professional auto tech for almost 40 years and have a large selection of tools and skills that made this job go well in places where some might have run into a wall. If you're going to do these brakes, and they are great brakes, be sure you have alternate transportation in case you get stuck for some time.

ASE doc

My wife Leah, who hasn't driven my IROC beastie for some time, drove the beastie to work one day last week while I took her car to my shop for some maintenance. She used to be terrified of the awful brakes, feeling like she couldn't stop quickly if she ever needed to. After driving the car for a day she was delighted with the new brakes, saying they were an absolute night and day improvement. The car's power still scares her but I don't plan on changing that.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Excellent.

I forget, what pads are you using? I am still having noise issues with both my BP-10's and Hawks Ceramic.

ASE doc

I am using the Wilwood semi-metallic pads that came with the kit. No noise issues, I did have some semi-heavy dust at first while the pads were bedding but that seems to have settled down. I attended a brake seminar recently where we discussed the differences between ceramic and semi-metallic brake materials. Ceramic works by deposting material onto the rotor surface(somewhat like adhesive tape), as such, ceramic doesn't dissipate heat well and may not be the best choice for a high performance application. The advantage to ceramic is reduced rotor wear and less dust. Semi-metallic works by typical friction, removing material from both the pad and the rotor. Heat dissipation is much better due to the metal content in the friction material. For an example of the performance difference between ceramic and semi-metalli: In Europe, where they have the Autobaan and driving speeds are much higher than in America or Japan, they use semi-metallic or very low percentage ceramic(less than 30%).

Noise is generally caused by oscillation between the metal backing of the pad and the caliper. Be sure to lubricate any contact area between the two with a good high temp brake grease. I can't remember the name of the product I use but it comes from NAPA and it's purple. The jar is white with purple text. I didn't use the grease on my installation because the silencing shims are very good on the Wilwood pads but at work I've started using on every brake service in order to prevent noise complaints.

Be sure that any pad you use has the noise reducing beveled ends. Without the beveling, the pads may produce a whistling noise on application. Be aware also that the slotted rotors tend to produce a growling sound as the friction surface crosses the slots. The beveling helps reduce this.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I am very aware of typical causes of noise. I have exhausted all typical solutions. That is why I tried the ceramics. The noise is also only there once the pads heat up. There just seems to be to much play in the way the pads fit in the calipers. Very annoying. Oh well I will get it figured out eventually.

ASE doc

What type of noise is it?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Its a high pitched groan. More annoying than typical brake squeal. I have noticed some very mild slotted rotor sound, but I don't mind that at all. Fortunately, now with the 6 speed, i rarely get the brakes hot enough to make the groan noise. I do have a new set of pad side tension clips waiting to go on. I don't think they are going to make a difference, but its worth a shot.

ASE doc

The brake lube I was thinking of is Permatex item# 24125, Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant. You might try it between the pistons and pads.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

It is worth a shot, thanks. I have tried all kinds of lube along with the wilwood rubberized steel shims.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Well my brake noise was from the rotors. I swapped in a set of Centric premiums and my problems are now gone. I don't know what was wrong with the DBA's maybe bad metallurgy or heat treat. Anyway I am happy now.

ASE doc

Good news. I've been thinking about drilled, slotted rotors for my Beasty. My experience has been that they can be noisy, but for serious duty, the heat dissipation is worth it.

aqualordx93

Im pretty late on this thread, sorry.

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i18.html

Is that the exact kit the OP got? it says 1000$ like the OP said, but his brakes are slotted rotors? im confused on this, or maybe i am missing the obvious -.-

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

That is the kit. I had Ed delete his standard rotors and I acquired the DBA slotted rotors myself. I also had Ed do safety wire on the bracket and caliper bolts which is not standard.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

...on the wilwood brakes....I have been eye ball'n wilwood's for a few years now....What about the Bear break kit that Hawk's has listed. Has anyone run these,

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/br...r13rotors.aspx

looks like a great deal to me.......

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

That is a good price for the Baer kit. Those are just C5 calipers though. Not a fixed caliper like the Wilwoods.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

...not sure what you mean by "FIXED"......sooo! the bear calipers that they are sell'n are C-5 and NOT Bear!!!!!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

They aren't C5 calipers. They are a older design that uses a thinner rotor than the 98up Fbody and C5 uses. They are both a PBR design pad guilded caliper tho.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Nice, still cant delet a dub post....

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

A sliding caliper is a caliper with pistons only on one side of the rotor, typically the inboard side. As the fluid pressure increased the caliper actually slides in order to equalize the clamping force created by the extending pistons. This is what allows pressure on both the inboard and outboard pad. The sliding action takes about 100lbs of force to move. So you lose some minimal braking efficiency making the caliper slide. Sliding calipers are the most common kind because they are cheap, effective, and provide excellent wheel spoke clearance.

A fixed caliper is a caliper whose entire body is rigidly mounted to the suspension. There is no sliding action. Instead, the caliper has pistons on the inboard and outboard side of the rotors to equalize the clamping force. The advantage of a fixed caliper is they are more efficient and are typically optimized for performance applications. They also happen to look much better. The disadvantage is they are much more expensive and reduce wheel caliper clearance.

As TTOP350 pointed out the Baer Track calipers are not actually C5 calipers. Upon further inspection they seem to be a variant of C4 calipers with a little nicer looking casting. The Baer brakes are fine, but are generally overpriced in my opinion.

ASE doc

I saved a few bucks by going with the base rotors provided with the kit. They are still an awesome improvement over the OE brakes, even without slotted rotors. They did come with safety wires for the bracket bolts.

Aside from the advantages 87350IROC has mentioned, another huge advantage of the fixed caliper over floating is getting away from the slide mechanism. Every floating caliper design I have ever repaired has shown a tendancy toward uneven pad wear and brake drag due to binding slides. The slides bind because of worn pins/bushings or due to insufficient lubrication. Whatever the case, they are one more issue to deal with and high performance use only adds to the problem. Fixed calipers eliminate this problem.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

What are the base rotors that come with the kit? 13x1.1" C4HD?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

My kit is based off the C4HD rotor. Ed can also build a version based on the C5 rotor.

91L98Z28

Has anyone been able to get ahold of Ed lately?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I have not tried.

d00012

I bought the Wilwood kit (11" rotor) from Spohn for my GTA. Had a couple questions...

Which proportioning valve do you use? And what did you do for the brake lines? I know Wilwood sells flex lines for a good price, but wasn't sure on which length.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

The kit you are referring to is so wildly different than the one we are talking about here, its really hard for me to comment. But to answer your questions.

I use a Wilwood adjustable prop valve and Ed provided the lines in the kit.

What are you planning to use the car for?

d00012

Weekend driving and occasional track use.

It's the same calipers, only difference are the rotors and hubs used. And installed the same way, that's why I asked.