I got a used Ed Miller C4 HD brake kit and it moved my wheels out a crazy amount beyond the fender. I have wide wheels and I can't afford to have them move out even a tiny bit. I need to know my options for large brakes that don't move the wheel at all.

Also, are there different spindles on 3rd gens or are they all the same? I could modify my V6 spindles if needed, but I still don't think the C4 HD kit is going to work for me.

 

I think I figured it out. The spacing from spindle mounts to front of rotor plane where the wheel sits is more than stock. The spindles have the hub/bearing mod to accept C4 brakes, or LS1, or C5, etc. No matter what modern brake system I use it will still have the hub mod and I will have the same problem. I think I'm relegated to stock style brakes on stock spindles, aren't I?

 

I used the alloy hubs from EB, and have the 13 in C-4 set-up, my wheels moved only slightly, way less then using a modded I-LE hub, but they were pricy.

 

Put a number to "slightly". My tires are wide enough that I'm sensitive to movement.

 

According Dan Burke, "There are two types of spindles on the third-generation F-body: Pre-1989 and post-1989 spindles. The post-1989 spindles are heavier; presumably to handle the suspension loads a little better." AndyZ28 says that the difference is that the latter spindles are a bit beefier around the mounting bosses. All, of course, are interchangeable. Even the 1LE brake option moves the wheels out a bit. A search would determine how much.

JamesC

 

I talked to Wilwood today and they have a 11" and 12" kit that has zero offset from stock p/n 140-11012 and 140-11275, respectively. It uses stock hubs and you simply cut the ears off for the caliper adapters. Not a terrible price either.

I talked to Baer and all their kits move the wheel out 0.4" each side.

 

I have the C5 brake kit and I dont think it moved out much if any at all. I've always heard it moves things out .3" Thats so small it doesnt show up. I had 1.7" spacers with 18x8.5 C6 wheels up front with stock brakes and then swapped on the C5 brakes, and didnt see/notice any change?

 

People who start with 1LE brakes from factory won't notice an appreciable difference because 1LE is already spaced out. People like me that start with standard brakes (from a V6 no less) will definitely notice.

 

To be clear I didnt have 1LE brakes, just factory front discs. I think if you shaved down the hub abit and modified the bracket a touch, you can move everything back 0.3" to keep it the same. You'd have to take measurements to see if you can shave things off. Even mill the wheel face perhaps?

 

i dont think there is enough meat on the hub to take .3 off of it and still be safe.

your pretty much stuck with the wheels a bit further out, unless that willwood setup works. I assume they are using different rotor/hubs for that setup? wonder what they are from or if they are custom made?

 

Maybe take some off the hub, some off the wheel? Hard to say, i'm not sure what the thicknesses are. But .3" isnt that much

 

I'm off by more than that on each side. Maybe 1.5 inches or so.

 

WOW! thats a lot of movement. Wonder why its moving that far out?? Why would V6 setup be any different than any other non 1LE brake system? I know for a fact mine didnt push out much more than .3" as advertised, and likely less than that.

How thick are your hubs?

 

I think the 1LE hubs must be used for C4 HD brake swap. That puts the wheel out further than the rotor thickness.

 

that would make sence. My front wheels moved out quite a bit, i though 3/4" per side, when i went from stock to the 1le front brakes. The stock 16x8 and 245/50's are about flush with the fender lip, maybe a tad under. they are noticeably further out than the wheels on my 86 with a c5 front brake setup using standard hubs.

 

Yes, and I have even wider wheels and tires so they stick out. This would be a nice kit for somebody with stock rims!

 

i would be curious to see what willwood is using.

as for me, i can just swap the rear wheels to the front and put the fronts in the back. Problem solved!

what front wheel specs are you using might i ask?

 

17x9 with 5 inch backspacing up front.

Wilwood kit is all their own parts. You can't go down to NAPA and service with anything. The only thing that you could get elsewhere are the pads as they are a plate #7112 (whatever that means).

 

Those wilwood kits are horrible for anything but a drag car. They use the small Dynalite caliper and even smaller 0.81" thick rotors. Honestly I would rather have stock brakes.

I would be curious to see what hubs they use though.

 

Even with stock wheels brake upgrades stick out. I had about close to an inch on my wheels. With the crosslaces to clear the caliper I have to use a spacer which pokes them out even more. With my old TT2's that I sold for that reason it was about .75 out. I just hate it to be honest, Even with the crosslaces I dont like how they stick out. I might be going with some aftermarket wheels with fitment for a 4th gen soon to fix it via spacers.

Im using Bigbrakeupgrades LS1 brake setup spindles were from a 90 Iroc.

 

Brakes upgrades push the wheels out the thickness of the rotor, which is about 3/8". Any other issues with wheel fitment is the fault of the wheels not the brakes. The crosslace wheels are tough for brake fitment. 3/8" on top of stock wheels is hardly noticeable.

 

Willwood has two kits, a street and drag. Are you saying the street kit also has thin rotors that will warp and wear rapidly?

To the other guy, Wilwood is a zero offset kit, meaning it will keep same wheel position as stock spindles (non 1LE). Other upgrades I have found move the wheel out the thickness of the rotoor. Some even more if they use the 1LE spindles. My C4 HD 13" kit has to use the 1LE spindles and that's why mine moved so much. Well, I guess to be completely accurate it is not the 1LE spindles that is the problem but the 1LE hub. It's all part of the equation though if you happen to have a 1LE spindle.

 

Hmm, it seems strange to require 1LE hubs as I would assume they hard to get.

Either way, the stock Wilwood kits are no good. I would probably rather have a properly functioning stock setup.

The best Wilwood kit is the following

12.2" diameter rotors (1.5" larger than stock)
0.81" thick rotors (0.3" less than stock)
4.8 sq in piston area (0.1 less than stock)
6.36 sq in pad area (2.4 less than stock)
2.1 in^3 pad volume (0.8 less than stock)

The dynalite calipers are really really tiny. I would only use them in the rear.

A better choice would be the wilwood Superlite caliper on at least a 1.1" thick rotor. However nobody offers such a kit in an application that doesn't push the wheels out 3/8".

 

Thanks. Appreciate the data.

 

QwkTrip, this is Dave I helped you take your big block out. I have my 1LE spindles if you wanna try them. They are just sitting in a box in the corner.

 

Thanks, Dave. Appreciate the help. I have my stock spindles and 1LE spindles. The C4 J55 brakes are mounted to the 1LE spindles and are the ones pushing out my wheels so far.

I've had the wheel sitting on spacers for a few weeks trying to get used to where it would sit if I did a LS1 brake swap. I just can't get used to it. I'm thinking pretty seriously about buying CCW wheels custom made and using the C4 J55 brakes I have. I'd get wider rims on the back while I'm at it (stuff it to the max).

 

Check out Kore3 online. Im using thier hybrid kit with 14 inch rotor an a C5 Works great and only moved the wheel out 3/8 of an inch. You can look for my thread on here, for the install.

 

Thanks.

 

what is an alloy hub?

i have the C4 kit on my '90. It moved the wheels out about 5/8s of an inch. I would like to move them back in if possible (and keep the C4s).

thx

 

They offer zero offset bigbrake kits(to older camaros)Not sure if this hub can fitted to 3-gen spindle,but I think that key to zero offset brakes is thinner and stronger material hub.
http://www.classicperform.com/Store/...6472WBKP13.htm