I don't really give a rats you know what about SPL. Loud is loud and deep is deep, if you want to drown out your mids and highs be my guest but I want SQ. That is why I'm SO happy with my setup.
My questions is, does anybody have any proof that the square subs are more accurate in reproducing cleaner sound or are the round solo's better?

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

shudder...... square,,, ew...

personal opinion

circle, think of the action of circle subs moving up, in and out, now imagine a square, has corners and ribs, ick, the hexes i would imagine are better, because they arent 90 degrees and are just angled edges, but in all personal opion,
oval sucks, square sucks, emo sucks, (Jk) CIRCLE RULZ....


Ok, now that ive asked for my bootie to get beaten, by emo lovers, and polygon shapped woofer lovers.....


lol,

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91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback, Custom Alarm. Fourth Gen Console. i have six cupholders. all for starbucks!
Go|)Created The Earth, And Then Turned Up The Bass.
Here's My Audio Install!

"Honda's FOR ME TO POOP ON!" -Triumph...

 

Well, there's several ways you can look at this...

I have never been a fan of solo's for SQ applications. I think for the money, there is much better to be had in a sub that is meant for SQ first and SPL second.

Now, as far as round vs. square...I don't think you are going to hear much difference. If square were such a problem, Mark Eldridge wouldn't be using them in his 4runner...of course those are modified and running aperiodic...

Just my $.02, nothing against Kicker in any way as they do make great products...just maybe not for your application.



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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

when I was sub shopping the guy at one of the shops gave me a demo of the 8in square kicker vrs another 8, a 10 and a 12. It was much clearer than the 8 and 10 and was quite comperable to the 12 as far as loudness and clarity. The only problem with the SB's is they need a very stout sealed box. The box they were selling these 8's in were rhyno lined inside and out so the box wouldent fall apart or sound would not bleed into the box. If I had $350 to blow on a sub and box i would get one of these.
SSC

 

SSC,

Odds are he was demo'ing the comps vs. the solo's off of the same amplifier.

The 8" compVR's are going to sound comperable to a solo at the same power input due to the sensitivity. It takes far less power to push a compVR respectably than it does a solo...Now if he had demo'ed those same subs with a stronger amp pushing the solos, I guarantee you would notice the difference...just little tricks sales people play to make you think the way they want you to think...Just remember, a salesman's worst enemy is a very well educated consumer.

As far as the SQ, I believe that the compVR is a reasonable sub for the money and is built more for sound quality than SPL, or at least built to be a good comprimise of the two.

Again, these are all just my opinion from past experiances.

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

By the way, why did you single out Square vs. Round when there is also Triangle and Hex and lord knows what other shapes out there now?

Just adding fuel to the fire

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

Mark's L7's are not run of the mill, but the rest of the Kicker Competition Groups are. Gary Biggs, Rob Rice,Corey Himel,etc,etc are using run of the mill, off the shelf woofers and winning in SQ. In sealed type enclosures, the work awesome. vented, of course SPL.
Everyone knows the advancge of square vs. round cone thing, but we are going into another year and not having one problem with the corners like some rumors started we would. Matter of fact, we soon will advance past that.
So to say being sqaure has a totally different sound wave, has still proven to win this year in SQ contest, so point must be mute.

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350 4 bolt main, Speed-O-Motive 383 stroker kit, re-sized rods ground for clearance,TRW Forged pistons,10.7:1 compression,HPC Coated RPM intake, Holley 750 cfm carb,World Products Sportsman II heads,2.02/1.60 valves, Comp Cam 1.6 roller rockers, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,240/246@.050 with .540 lift,Crane pushrods,ATI damper,Proform HEI and MSD6A box,HPC coated 1 5/8 headers, 2.5" exhaust with 40 series mufflers,TH350 with Hughes 3000 stall, Powertrax NoSlip Locker, 4.11 gears.

 

Polecat,

Was wondering if you would drop by this thread

I guess my predjudice against Solo's for SQ are possibly outdated. I don't remember what the last series that I really worked hands on with was, but it was before the squares and back around the time that the comp c series had been around. At the time, they were more of an SPL monster than meant for SQ...I will admit though, Gary's and Mark's vehicles really do sound good and show off what can be done with them.



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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

Hey carl, yea, always around somewhere reading....

Wow, those were like the 'C' series Solo's. Since then we have done the 'D' series, with quit a few changes, then the L7. And we are always tring to do new stuff, so look around CES time for some cool things to happen again.
The L7's were not going to as big of a hit as we thought, just taking woofers to a new level, but as dealers and consumers started playing with them, they really liked them. This goes for the tech's too.
You remeber, gary's Regal used to have 18" woofers in it....in a SQ car.
Now, it's done with a L710, and 12's for the SPL part of competition.
Cory Himels van in USAC last year won and he has six 15's. In Sq! So it's not just the woofer, it's the people also that take the time and plan a system that works well with the product used.

Later.

 

Carl, I already have the 12 D series solo. I'm the guy with the stealth stereo install that has the sub in a fiberglass enclosure behind the spare tire panel. I also have the amps in the back seats, first guy on thirdgen to do that I might add , a couple followed soon after but they came in second place .
As for round vs square: This is what I've read in countless books, sphere is good, cube is bad as far as enclosured are conserned. SO....wouldn't the same go for the speaker design? A cube is the easiest to make sturdy, that is why most subs are designed to be installed in a squarish box, yes/no? Has anybody seen the really expensive enclosures that are complete ceramic sphere enclosures. The ceramic is used because it doesn't resonate and absorb any of the sub engergy. The sphere is good because there is no distortion caused by sound waves bouncing around inside off of specific angles.
I got a lot of this info from the following website. http://www.zako.com/techrev.htm
There are problably exceptions but has anybody noticed the Apple computers with their 1" mid and high driver that is SO small and the enclosure is a sphere, they sound really good for computer speakers!
Anyways, maybe the square subs actually sound better in a square enclosure BUT I would think that technology wants infinite angles so less distortion! Oh well, maybe somebody can help me with some professional articles like the one I provided.
Thanks and THANK YOU KICKER, for making an awesome sub!

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

I don't know if I still have pics around, but I bet I beat ya to it by putting 2 eqt's and a xover in the back seat in what could have easilly doubled as an amprack probably 3 years ago (just giving you a hard time)

Now sound waves bouncing off of walls I could understand being a potential problem with higher frequency drivers, mids and such, but I have yet to see anyone really prove that to be a problem in real life applications. That's the kind of thing that someone like B&W would say to claim to get you to buy their $11k Nautalis 801's, but for auto applications? Doubt it would ever be an issue.

See Above

Now, it seems like we are talking about two completely different issues here...round vs. any other shaped sub AND square vs. any other shaped enclosure.

I addressed the enclosure part, and I think Polcat did a good job backing up the SQ portion of the square L7's. Those vehicles that he mentioned are in fact some of the best sounding vehicles that I have had the pleasure to audition to date. But as he said, it basically all comes down to how well thought out the design is of the entire install. A good sub can sound like a$$ in an improperly designed enclosure, while a $49.95 best buy special can sound rather good in a correctly designed enclosure...so I guess there really is no valid argument against square, hex, triangle etc... over round...bottom line is that a driver moves air. If it moves the air and is mechanically quiet about doing so, able to respond quickly to electrical signals and maintain control and stability, then odds are it will sound good in the right application...

Ok, enough of my ranting for now, hope this helps point you in the right direction



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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

Here is our demo Cougar.....it breaks all the barriers of enclosure deisgn. Theory was that anyone can "Stick a round woofer in a square box, can they stick a square woofer in a round box". But seriously, this Cougar sounds really nice for round enclosures.


[This message has been edited by Polecat (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

ok..finally a guy that has a couple of them square 12L7's.
in my buddies truck, he has two square 15's with 1200watts mono off a kicker amp going to each sub in a ported box. he hits 150db in a spl drag. his truck will shake the hell out of you and the sound is nice. in my car, i got two square 12's. the sq from my 12's will beat down anything else in town. nothing can even come close to the sq that i have it setup for. mind you i turned down the amps to setup for sq, and im only hitting 137db, but that aint too bad at all. but another thing is, if you want a nice sounding stero, you need to spend the big bucks. all you people wanting a nice stero for under $1000.... good luck i got 7G's worth of hardware in mine, but if you like a nice farting sound for your music, than hey, go cheep and get a low quality sound. and to the above posts knocking square subs.... subs work by moving air... what has more area/surface area, a circle or a square 12" across?

 

lol, what are you talking about? SQ is NOT the same as SPL. Subs work by moving air, surface area etc, YES but SQ doesn't depend on how much air you can move and it doesn't depend on how much power you've got in your amps. If I just looked at your last sentence I could say "my 4 18" subs will sound better than your 2 10s" which is Bull5HIT. Let me through out another idea for you guys to ponder over: Round mid bass (plays lows as well) compared to a oval shape. Which produces MORE SPL, usually the oval if it has more surface area, which is more accurate for SQ (usually)? The round speaker. THIS is why I have a hard time believing that a funky shape sub will be all that great. I do believe that the shape of the sub doesn't matter as MUCH as a mid bass or tweeter BUT it's still a similar physics priciple. Which has a more ridged shape....usually round, see my point?
I will say that enclosure has a LOT to do with sound quality and that is why I'd like to here about an SQ test in a vehicle that had a round solo and went to a square solo both in proper enclosures. I'd like to see those results, not just what somebody says sounds good. Heck, most of us can't tell the difference between a good system and a great system, it's like trying to tell the difference bettween a high quality mp3 and a CD source! Just my ranting, I'll stop now :-)


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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

i have D series round 12 solobarics (x2) and all responses i get are clean bass, deep when you need it and clean punch.

my .02...

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'86WS7
Ram Air...
*EiyseWhite*

 

Polecat,
You going to be working the CES booth? I had some issues last year trying to get any info for my report on Sounddomain. Basically typical treatment (hell, I told them I worked for a dealer (which I did part time at that point.... but obviously didn't matter that much)). Anyway, would like to have someone to look up at the booth even if its to get a full brochure instead of the joke they reserve for non-dealers.

Oh, and not only did Gary Biggs do well, he won the wild west shootout (imagine a contest with 5 of the best stereos in the country with the winner getting a big check and a trophy). So Gary Biggs has those L7's and he has won all kinds of SQ stuff with them.

Juan


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1987 Pontiac Trans Am
1994 Nissan Sentra E
1999 Daewoo Leganza

 

Yes. I actually setup the booth on Sunday and tear down the following Saturday. i will be there the whole week. I already have meetings to meet Dan Wiggins from Adire Audio and JD from DEI. So it ought to be agreat show. Come by and just ask for Tracy at the booth.