five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This used to be the "hot ticket" on drag cars. Haven't seem much of them lately. Between Jegs & Summit, they offer a grand total of one choice (at least in their paper catalogs).

I'm having an issue keeping consistent temperature fuel going to the carb with the '57 at the strip. I'm wondering if rigging up a cool can would help that situation. The past couple of weeks I've been using my garden sprayer to spray down the entire fuel line (which is aluminum) along the frame between rounds - that seems to have helped, but the weather has been fairly cool those days. I'm concerned about hotter weather that is sure to come.

Anybody still running a cool can? Is it worth it, or should I just keep spraying it down?

F-BIRD'88

The best way to ensure cool fuel at the drags is to
modify your fuel system into a return style system, like fuel injection. That way the fuel is always moving from th tank to the carb and back to the tank and the regulator takes what ever the
carb requires at the time. Some other benefits are more total fuel volume, longer electric pump life, (the pump now runs at full rpm and flow and lower amperage) less chance of flooding the carb.
A holley blue regulator hooked after the car in a reverse flow fashion on the return line will regulate the system.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'm running a Carter mechanical, no plans on changing that unless forced to by performance (it's a funding thing). Like you say, though, all of the guys I can think of with race-only cars, and one street/strip, are using electric with regulated return. All except the street/strip have fuel cells which they refuel every few rounds as well.

I was considering a return line, don't have a good way to get it back into the tank without punching a hole in either the tank or the pickup. Plus I would need either a reg like you suggested or a check valve to keep pressure on the feed system.

Damon

Yes, cool cans still work. Last one I used was on my 10 second 72 Chevelle more than 10 years ago but physics hasn't changed since then. Use icewater, not dry ice in it and change the ice after every round if time permits.

It shouldn't be difficult to route the fuel line away from heat on a 57- there's tons of room to route stuff pretty much wherever you want it. The killer is the headers (try routing on the FAR side of the frame rail from the headers or even INSIDE the frame rail) although the exhaust pipes and mufflers can cause problems as well (maybe try some header wrap around it anywhere it comes near a heat source).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It's not close to the headers at all. But, the heat from the exhaust and tarmac heat up the entire line (even the frame was hot). I was cooling the engine compartment portion before, only to have it stumble half way down the track as the warm stuff got up to the carb. Spraying the whole thing has helped, but again, it hasn't been that hot yet, and if I happen to make it to the later rounds, they don't like you pulling up to the line with a dripping frame.

I realize the physics haven't changed. But the times seem to have, since they don't seem very common now.

Are there new rules that won't let you use a coffee can anymore?

Damon

Not that I'm aware of. But if water's dripping out of a leaky homebuilt cool can onto the track......

F-BIRD'88

When your car stumbles at half track, does your fuel pressure take a nose dive?
I'm thinking that if there is any kind of restriction on the suction side of your fuel system (anywhere fron the tank to the pump)
that under high rpm load the restriction is causing a pressure
drop on the suction side and allowing the hot fuel to vapour lock.
Could be a under-sized fitting or a hose collapsing or minor kink
in a hard line , or the pick up in the tank causing the pressure drop.
If so a cool can under the hood won't cure this because the problem is occuring somewhere under the car before the pump and under hood area. May have to wrap the fuel line under the car to insulate it from the heat. Could be the vent on the gas tank too.
Try running with the gas cap loose.

A fuel return would help a mechanical pump system also. While you are sitting in the staging lanes and idleing (low fuel flow) the fuel in the pump is being bypassed in the mechanical pump and heating up, along with the slow moving fuel in the lines.

Add a return line and reversed holley regulator as you would
if you were running an electric pump and now the mechanical pump is always pumping at max flow and the fuel is always
renewed. I don't think you'd even have to modify the pump.
If the mechanical pump regulates to 9psi, set the holley regulator to 8psi or less.

I'd stick with the mechanical pump myself. They're more dependable and move more fuel and cheaper too.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, so can't say about that. The system is new 3/8" from tank (including pickup) to fuel pump. No kinks, and the most rubber in the line is the connection at the fuel pump, about 1" total unsupported by hard line. "Loose" is a good description of the gas cap when it's on tight (it's a vented cap, fairly new).

I'm fairly certain it's just the lower density fuel that's causing the variation in performance. It's not a total fall-on-its-face, just misfire. When warm, 5200-5500 RPMs is the limit. When well-cooled, revs to 5700 easily. If I don't cool the engine down at all, then it will fall on its face right away.

The thoughts I had about a home-fab would include soldered line and petcock to the can penetrations, tight-fitting plastic lid. I'm trying to imagine a way to make a mold to use that expanding aerosol foam to insulate it.

Damon

Have to say, F-Bird might have hit on something that I missed. Get a cheap remote fuel pressure gague kit from your local speed shop. Hook it up and duck tape the gague to the windshield if you have to but make it visible to you during a run. Make test runs on a deserted back road through the first 2 gears. If pressure starts to nose-dive during a run then you've found your culprit.

A huge mechanical pump (with many times the capacity you think you need) can often run dry during hard launches when the mere weight of the fuel in the lines works against it during a hard launch. I had this problem on several of my cars at only the 13.7 ET level. Big Carter mechanical pump, 3/8" hand bent lines all the way into the tank. It takes surprisingly little to lose fuel pressure.

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I used to have a Moroso cool can in my car. They do work, mine made a little differece on hot days at the track usually around .05 sec faster. I liked the cool can because half the people at the track didn't know what it was, I got a kick out of listening to people talk about it or ask what it was.

SSC

Alot of people including myself are using a small transmission cooler as a sorta cool can somwhere inline. A few people are using them infront of the raditaor and they do work well but that 2ft limit on rubber fuel hose can be a killer.

Z THANG

I use the Moroso Super Cool Can that they offer in Jegs or Summit. Along with an Electric pump with a return line ensures cool fuel at the track. I put my battery in the back and installed the cool can in it's place. I use the braided fuel line and it sure does get cold.

bhaas

Right on. I tried to do a search on this subject a couple of days ago and came up with squat. If I can get to the track this Wednesday it'll be 85+ degrees outside. That sucks. I hate heat. Well anyway I was thinking of making one out of a big piece of PVC pipe. We had a big piece at work I wanted to hack up and make my can with, but I didn't think they'd appreciate that. So I'm gonna go to Home Depot and get me a piece and 2 caps for the top and bottom and a glue gun to seal it all up. I was thinking of using copper tubing coiled up inside. Anyone have any better suggestions as to what to use in the can? Thanks.

Brad...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Aluminum fuel line would transfer the heat more readily.

That's what I've got from tank to carb. So, part of my problem. I've had good results the past two weeks spraying down the line when I get to the track and after a run. If the sun has been blazing on the pit tarmac, I give it a little spray under the frame as well. I have also been draining the fuel bowls just before leaving the pit for the staging lanes to give it a nice fresh charge.

Z THANG

Copper tubing is what we use to use back in the day for home made cool cans. I took a 1 gallon paint can sprayed undercoating inside of it and drilled 2 holes in the side of the can. One on top and one on the bottom for entry and exit. Then get some copper tubing and coil it up and place it inside. As a matter of fact, I still have my old cool can. Maybe I need to go slap it on Ebay

mefreema

I was thinking of making a homemade one too. I was thinking of using a thermos, ya know the insulated kind with the big twist off top. You can get it for like 3 or 4 bucks. Just put 3 holes in the bottom: inlet, outlet, and petcock for draining. Just coil up some copper or aluminum and run each end out of two of the holes and seal it up then use the last one for the drain. With the big top you could easily unscrew it and dump in your ice water. Only problem I see is they are plastic but as long as you didnt have it too close to a header or something I think it would be alright. You could probably make it for $10 and it's already insulated. Paten Pending 5682568526 Act now your you can receive your gerry rigged fuel cooler for 9 easy installments of $19.95 :lala:

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

Are cool cans legal at the strip?I bought the Moroso super cool can about 5 years ago for my Z and even when I recently redid my entire fuel system I didn't incorporate that in because I remeber hearing that it was not legal per NHRA rules and that I would not pass tech with it in the car.I know..I know..don't beleive evything you hear,but is this false?I should just get a damn rule book but off hand does anyone know how the NHRA looks at these?I would love to finally install it,thanks for any and all help.

Z THANG

I think I heard that they were illegal also, but, I race at NHRA sanctioned tracks and I have yet to even be inspected

I have mine where the battery use to be, so maybe when most folks look at it they think it's a battery in there. I guess they think the braided lines are running acid to the battery, lol.

I don't think you would have a problem with it unless you were one of the big boys running 7 seconds in the 1/4. Then someone might want to peek under yer hood.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

They make me use a cut-off switch in the back because I have the battery in the trunk. That seems a little silly to me on a 14-sec car.

The last two weekends, I've been draining the fuel bowls before a run, along with spraying down the line. The results have been quite encouraging - much more consistent, new best time last night.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

just curious, but when running a cool can do you need to re- jet?

Firebird_dave7

Nitrous is cold why dont you rig a Bottle of nitrous to a spray nozzle and place the fuel line through a container of your choice and use a small constant amount throughout the run and that should keep the fuel cool.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, at least we know the search function is working, and people are using it. . .

You may have to rejet when using a cool can. Just depends on where you are without it.

Personally, I abandoned the cool can in 2004. I started using E85 in 2006, and you certainly don't want to use a cool can with E85.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

we havent gotten e85 here yet, but i want to run it when its more obtainable. why cant you use a CC with e85?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It takes more heat to evaporate ethanol. Cooling it first would make that more difficult, reducing performance.

Apeiron

It would be a waste of nitrous. You'd get a better return for your money from using nitrous as an oxidizer than a coolant.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

why not use dry ice? seems to me there would less of a mess and would last longer

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You want to cool it a little, not turn it into jell.

Apeiron

Dry ice would sublimate around the tubing so you wouldn't be cooling as effectively as water anyway.

dirtywhiteZ28

I've seen several turbo guys running CO2 nozzles at their intercoolers, bet thats both cheaper and a lot safer than wasting nitrous into the atmosphere. It would seem to me that with a little time and effort you could adapt a cool can with a proper sized vent, spay the CO2 and leave the ice in the beer cooler for the trip home.

dirtywhiteZ28

You may want to double check your Summit catalog. The last issue had a Moroso cooler can in the air and fuel section for about $100, and a Flex-a-lite finned copper tube cooler for like $40 in the Plumbing section. I think they should have been placed together but maybe one of those beancounters thought they couldn't sell the moroso if you saw something else for less than half it's price on the same page.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

i looked at those, but it is so humid here most of the year i thought that condensation might drip off of it

dirtywhiteZ28

Yeah the moroso cool can uses an aluminum heat sink which probably would sweat in the coastal air, but the cheaper finned cooler won't. It's no different than a small trans cooler in the way it works, except it's probably a little to small to find an appropriate sized electric fan to go with it.

Apeiron

A water and ice-filled cool can would probably be preferable to a normal finned cooler since it would provide a constant temperature.

comp

i agree and a lower temp than abient (sp) air

mxcrazed

to combat condensation to the same ting that is done on you A/C system's receiver rap it in foam insulation tape so that the ambient air doesn't get to it

I have one of those beer coolers that is for a keg that sits in a cooler full of ice water and cools your beer that way, good idea? or no go, i believe it has threaded pipe fittings.

Also add salt to the ice water to cool it even more makes a big difference

comp

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

I got the moroso put in , just waiting on a couple of fittings. looking forward to experimenting with it.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I saw the "Cool can" topic, and even though we're in Carb forum, I thought one of you might have see one for FI. Anybody seen one?

Apeiron

I think they were more in vogue when the state-of-the-art was a block mounted mechanical fuel pump with no return. It would be interesting to see how much effect one would have on a carb or FI setup with a return.

mxcrazed

so I guess my beer cooler is still more valuable as a beer cooler.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Use the ice for more productive endeavors.

dirtywhiteZ28

I guess I thought menchening the finned cooler seemed feasable since five7kid said he was concerned about getting that E85 to cold. I also thought that in order to run E85, that different types of valve metals, along with a particular kind of seat metal was necessary to negate the harsh, near, acidic, effects of ethanol. Otherwise the motor will basically eat itself, like sucking on a smarty.

Apeiron

You're thinking of methanol.

dirtywhiteZ28

Then why is'nt every car flex fuel viable. I know the GM guy's at the warranty dept. would have a cow if some one ran E85 through their brand new G8, or C6.

Apeiron

E85 needs a different AFR than gasoline.

dirtywhiteZ28

I guess I thought there was a alittle more to it than that.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Don't the new LS s NOT have a return line? They have a "dead head" fuel line?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, they don't.

draco

I dont know if it's too late to change your mind or not but a buddy of mine used to run a homemade cold can (folgers coffee can and coiled stainless tubing) at Kanawha motor speedway with no problem at all. He ran a 1976 Charger (junk) with a 400 and 440 heads (also junk haha). The track guys said as long as he wasnt pouring water it was ok. He never dripped anyways because he used dry ice instead of ice water.

Hope this adds some to the topic.

skinny z

Dragging this one up after 7 years.
Did you ever get the cool can installed? Results?
I'm struggling with some kind of fuel delivery problem that seems to be heat related. I went to a return style mechanical pump (Carter M6626) in the hopes of keeping the fuel moving but the 40 gph doesn't seem to cut it performance-wise. Before I go back to the electric set-up I had used (as an emergency replacement) I'd like to try my 110 gph Edelbrock pump again and incorporate a cool can. Curious as to the installation method too.