five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Coming soon to a town near you.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100108/...ge/us_epa_smog

webeeZ28

iTrader: (2)

This truly is a wake up call to some people...not if, but when?

84 z28

I breifly skimed it but all it sounds like is the rest of the country will be going by Californias emissions standards. I live in NY and we already do that, plus my car is 25 model years old so im " Emissions Exempt" in NY. No sniffer for me but depending on where you take it the car needs to be stock appearing or you will get screwed with. Mostly the chain repair shops.

mooch1

up here in canada ..in the province of quebec to be exact....it was just announced last week that there will be strict emissions control and new laws passed to control the smog and polution.....ouch!

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

OH NOES!!!!!!

Bring on the doom scare!!!!!

...........lol as quoted per the article:

EPA plans to select a specific figure within that range by August. Counties and states will then have up to 20 years to meet the new limits, depending on how severely they are out of compliance. They will have to submit plans for meeting the new limits by end of 2013 or early 2014.
..............................................................................................
Pretty sure any measure agreed to and implemented will be long after Third gen and hell probably most 4th gens are exempt due to age. So rest easy for now people. Also as per the article does rules are being pushed to most northeast states and areas around cali. Not Florida in the south east so again Floridians have dodged a bullet. Also in Florida a car is considered a classic after 20 years so in two years all third gens will be classics which allows exemption if a smog law did come back. It's gets better when the car hits vintage at 30 years I beleive which means they pretty much can't touch you unless the car is totaly unsafe to drive.

Rest easy for now folks.

84 z28

The article reads :

More than 300 counties — mainly in southern California, the Northeast and Gulf Coast — already violate the current, looser requirements adopted two years ago by the Bush administration.

I bet all of you in the gulf coast (Texas,louisiana,mississippi,alabama,and florida) get nailed along with the rest of the non complyers. But i agree with what your saying about this being so far out(20yrs) that all third gens will be exempt by then.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

With regards to the 20 years (25 years in Texas) & Classic/No Testing.....

That only applies to the TEST itself. The car still has to pass VISUALLY, so the stuff can't simply be ripped off & thrown away. It still has to physically be there.

I think that is where a lot of peoples confusion comes from. "No more testing means I can take it all off & throw it in the trash." No. It has to be there for the visual portion of the test.

84 z28

Same thing i said car needs to be stock appearing when you go for an inspection.

Burnout91

The performance demonstrated by a lot of modified vehicles, ThirdGen and otherwise, that have all emissions equipment intact and functional gives testimony to the fact that there is no reason to delete pollution control devices, or to fear emissions related inspections.

That's why I integrated a functional EGR system into the (my) HSR.

Bill

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Visual inspections?

Looks like a car to me bill whacha think?

um hum thats a car there bubba j it got wheels aaaand everything.

red**ck visual inspection at it's finest

I ain't scared of no visual inspection.

shelby7099

If it affects my model year in my state then I will just pay jesus down the street to print me a sheet of paper that says it passed...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I put this in the Carburetor forum because of all the members who think they can get away with a non-CC carb, or can put a carb on an '88-later car.

There is no expiration with age with regard to Federal requirements. Enforcement is local (under the thumb of the Feds), and it is only there where testing and/or inspection exceptions may be allowed.

In front range metro Colorado, '75-'81 vehicles are subject to inspection and idle/mid-RPM sniffer test annually. '82-newer vehicles are subject to inspection and enhanced test (dyno) every other year. OBD-II vehicles have the computer scanned for trouble codes. 25 years old and older vehicles are eligible for 5-year "collector" plates, but much have a current emissions test (if required) prior to being issued; once issued, the vehicle does not have to be inspected or tested as long as the plates don't expire. That doesn't mean, though, that you don't have to have the emissions equipment any longer.

84 z28

Sucks to live on Colorado

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not really. As already mentioned, keeping the emissions equipment doesn't have a significant impact on performance.

305forever

well since these emmisions laws have people rilled up. Heres an idea, not the best idea but an idea. I had an 86 ws6 trans am, no cat, i had this in late 08 and early09, I was running on 2004 inspection stickers. Im in PA, in some counties up here thier is no emmisions inspection, i dont live in one of those so hears an odd fact in PA invalid inspection stickers are a 109.50 fine, However if you have NO inspection stickers its a 50-60 dollar fine

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Makes sense realy.

Small fine for no Inspection, maybe just overlooked that it was due vs a person going through the effort to fake one or something like that.

The other day, I got pulled over for my Registration sticker being "out". Turned out, I had just forgotten to put my current one on, but it was in my car. He took my license & ran it anyways. While he was doing that, I put the sticker on. So if he had written a ticket, it wouldn't have been valid for 2 reasons. My car was valid at the time that he wrote the ticket and it WAS registered, just not displayed properly.

camaronewbie

As most people should be, I'm a fan of clean air, environment safe, etc.

But - I have to say - the entire basket of auto emissions rules and laws are one huge crock of BS! There is no equipment to date that reduces emissions in any vehicle that is properly tuned. Anyone's 1968 anything will easily pass any smog test that "Uncle" can come up with just as easily as anyone else's 2010 car - if it's properly tuned.

Restricting one's choice of induction is not an answer to the problem, as is evident by anyone's 6 gazillion hp LSx motor that gets retuned through a $100 laptop and free software 2 days before inspection time, and then gets set back after the inspection so that person can go back to using their 6 gazillion hp.

Tuning a carb for maximum street performance would inherently mean tuning for optimum emissions - the end goal in performance is to completely burn every particle of fuel we can get our hands on, is it not? Thus with a properly tuned setup, regardless of the induction, we would all be environmentally friendly.

Who would be first to change from an optimal emissions tune - the fella with a carb that has to reset screws, change jets, change rods, fiddle manually with timing a vacuum distributor, etc etc - or the fella with a reprogrammable chipset on a fuel injection system that only needs to turn on a laptop and do a 3 second file swap?

If UNCLE truly wanted to cut back on emissions, he'd make ALL autos carbed, and make them ALL pass a smog (sniff) test.

This is the same as anything else - nothing more than simple Big Brother tactics. In this instance, my theory would be that UNCLE needs to ensure that the auto industry makes more money in order to be able to repay the automaker bailouts that should have never occurred to begin with. And thus "stricter rules" meaning more expensive equipment in the name of the environment will help ensure profits.

Obama - I'll keep my carb thank you. And I'll run it everyday all day. Wanna make sure I'm "green"? You like to spend - so spend some of MY tax dollars to setup a free tuning clinic at my local technical college to help me get my carb tuned efficiently for the environment AND to save my wallet a few bucks at the pump.

And change GM's name back from Government Motors to General Motors.

And lastly - STOP PROTECTING ME FROM MYSELF!!!!

I'd rather have my kids getting splinters from the local wooded playground equipment than not having any playground equipment at all!

(10 years ago the FEDS made all the state, county, and local parks remove any and all playground equipment made from wood due to the possibility of splinters. This was playground equipment that local tax dollars paid for, and subsequently local tax dollars paid for the removal of, because some soccer mom didn't want her brat to get a splinter. Give me a break! Your vote counts alright - except you aren't voting, the soccer moms that wouldn't know a carbon footprint from a deer track are voting!)

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

And in Colorado it's illegal if Car dealers show cars on a Sunday.

Here in Florida it's illegal to shower naked as it is a misdeamenor crime.

Doesn't stop any one from doing it. Remember an officer has the discretion wheter or not to give you a ticket when he pulls you for speeding. Thats just it. Discreation. Unless an officer is an a%%hole (not to many here in my area) they're not gonna check for the emisson ticket, the cat, or anything else. As long as the vehicle performs to standard of operation and the driver is wearing a seatbelt and all lights work. They don't care. Remember the federal goverment can say it's illegal to look at objects that are blue.....doesn't mean you can't. As thats only if a state enforces it. A state does not have to follow any federal law passed that thing that makes them comply is the support of the federal goverment in infastructure an other big money projects. In this case the article said if states don't comply it will be a loss in money towards highway construction and matienience.

UNITED States....every state is technicaly it's own country we are united much like a work union to work together towards an achievement. But technicaly every state can decide to work apart from the others if it so chooses. The problem is when it was attempted...South secceding from the North the federal union said no (Violating the terms of the Constitution by the way) and made the south rejoin the union.

To end this ramble I'm gonna say this like I have prior.

Five7kid I understand you want to comply with the law.
I can honor that. I understand also you want to prevent others from getting into trouble by not complying with said law thats understandable to and I support that.
But to come into this going

(I put this in the Carburetor forum because of all the members who think they can get away with a non-CC carb, or can put a carb on an '88-later car.)

makes me laugh. I know I've argued this against you for awhile now but let me be clear. You can come out saying "Naw naw your gonna get in trouble" like a child in elementary school (I know I work in one) and think your just the top **it but it just makes it funnier to me when I continue to "Break the rules" and never get caught, or fined, or arrested, or charged in anyway........to me it's like raising the middle finger back at you. I find satisfaction in that. And hey if for some reason I ever did get busted. I'm a man of my honor I'd come on here and say Five7Kid was right about having emissions equipment and be complient but you know it doesn't matter cuz it won't happen. I have access to a shop that would give me a clear pass inspection sticker no questions asked. I know the sheriff of the county personally. I won't get arrested for it cuz we laugh about the stupidity of emmisions testing now.

End of line.....Not getting caught so let me enjoy my non cc carb with no egr no smog pump and no cat in peace, and my LS1 with no egr no cat supercharged in peace.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My intent purely is to provide information that is of use to TGO members. I'm not advocating or opposing anything.

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

My apoligies for misunderstanding.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

where there is a will there is a way.

heck man if they actually went after all the chemical plants first our cars wouldnt have to be so strengint.

randyz91

Two points, well expressed, no name calling. Food for thought. Let's keep TGO forums this way, Spirited, thoughtfull, and informative. We will all be the better for it with our common interest, the thid gen F bodies. Whew, I have been wanting to say that for a long time. Randy

stroker_SS

With this whole emissions thing I might have to play this by ear because my car was originally equipped with a 2.8 carb. Would that mean I will fail visual automatically because the original engine is no longer equipped? Or does it mean I will have to install egr,air,etc onto my 350?

blue85305

means you fail automatically, but i wouldnt worry till the smog ***** knock on your door. if the plans for meeting new limits aren't due until 2013-14 then enforcement won't begin until 2015. so if you buy into 2012 you really have nothing to worry about.

radical82

Sniffer test, inspections, heck, I think you guys live in the wrong states...Nothing like that around here in the boonies!!!!!

Anyway, my newest car is the Camaro, it's an '82. Everything else is a decade or three older.... If all the inspection and emissions crap every works it's way out to the boonies, guess I'll just turn in my plates and start trailering everything to the track!!!!

As for all the big brother intervention on auto emissions, hope you all keep this in mind at election time!!!! No way the laws of a big city like LA or New York should be applicable out here.... If your Senator or Representative has been in DC more then 2 terms it's time to replace him, some lobbyist owns him and only a constant influx of new blood into the political scene is going to bring any common sense back into government!!!! Maybe with term limits, these politicians would be more inclined to represent the people who elected them and not sell their vote to the highest bidder!!!!

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

If the motor is from the same year or newer as your car and all parts engine wise and exhaust are carried over (EGR, CAT, O2 Sensors, Injection system) then it will be emisssons legal according to what I've been told. I live in Florida so it's never been issue here.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Has to be a passenger car engine/system, plus the above.

Cosmik Debris

Are you kidding? Good job I keep my hat on.

Kwijybow

Yay for me! I live in argueably the best city in Canada, where we dont enforce pollution laws at all. Ive been driving my carbed V8 around town for the past year and never had to get my car's emissions checked! Funny thing is that just across the water in Vancouver they are really strict on emissions testing. Go figure. Still an interesting read.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Seriously what percentage of people driving cars older than 1996? 1996 only gets older every year.. Half the cars have already rotted away by now.. How much 'stringer' requirements do we need, ive hooked up new cars to the 4-gas and they put out 0.00 CO when the converter reaches 900f and Ive seen HC's of less than 50.

Smog polluted areas already sniff test vehicles older than 1996..

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Well maybe I shouldn't stir the pot but figured it's worth telling.

Was driving my friends 98 T/A the other day when a Florida State Trooper pulled me over. (Did a californa stop at a Stop sign and didn't see him).

So I pull over and he's talking to me and he says, damn thats a mean looking car what is it?

So I tell him it's a 98 Trans Am with the WS6 hood.

He then say's it sounds kinda loud. (Supercharged, Cammed, Longtube Headers, No Cats, Magnaflow Exhaust) So I said yeah it is.

We do have a sound ordiance law to stop ricers with loud fart cans and muscle car drivers with loud exhaust.

So at this point I think yeay a ticket for failure to stop and noise control ticket, wonderful.

He then ask me to pop the hood.
So he's looking in the engine bay at the Supercharger and looks down the long tube headers and says it doesn't have cats does it?

So I tell him that it doesn't.
So I'm thinking great, failure to stop, sound ordiance, and lack of federal emisson device.

So at this point I'm thinking I'm gonna have to make a post on Thirdgen saying Five7kid was right. (I am a man of my word).

So he says you ever race it?
I said yes on the track. He asks how fast. So I tell him it runs 11.3.
He says damn thats a fast car. I couldn't catch you in my crusier if I wanted to.
I laugh he laughs he say's have a good day and don't be running stop signs. I said yes sir and he says I'll tell the boys to get nitrous on the Crown Vics to at least keep you in line of sight when we chase you. I laugh again he smiles and leaves.

Nothing about the cats not being there and thank god nothing about the noise level.
(Noise tickets are expeneseve cuz we have old farts who complain when a stock car drives by their house at 9 pm cuz it's "to loud" So they passed a bill to make it a crime to have above a certain db. And old farts out weigh young people so its stupid.

But anyways take what you want from it I just don't see emissions being an issue in Florida.

kstanbach

Only if you live in Denver. The rest of Colorado requires no smog testing. No visual either.

FireDemonSiC

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not true. I don't live in Denver, and I have to have emissions testing to register my vehicles (except those with collector plates).

carbsrule

the state ofwyoming will probaly never have emissions laws. The terrible winds (60mph+) that are here 50% of the time push our pollution to colorado. And we dont have a big enough population to need them. LA has more people than the entire state of woming.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

well uphere in Priusville aka Taxachusetts(Massachsuetts) cars that have OBD1 cars from 1980-1995 do not have to pass emissions just safety take that Chairmen O

GXR11

its the same thing that every DEA agent or INS agent will tell you, the "criminals" or"illegals" are always one step ahead of the law and the law will always be playing catch up... the "bad guys" are always finding ways around or under the law... im a prime example.. not that i concider myself a "criminal" but some might. i bought my 84 camaro for one purpose only.. to tag a car as "antique". here in delaware, any car over 25years old can be tagged as antique. meaning it has to pass inspection, emmisions, visual and saftey just once... then it never has to see the inspection lanes again. my 750 dp 'd, team G intake with spacer, dart heads with 1400 in machine shop work, 11:1 comp. and 8k shift point, motor never had the thought of trying to pass emmissions... or will it ever... hell, the exhaust will come out through the front fenders when done.... the car wont pass to save it life now. but i have friends in the right places. its going to go to the inspection lanes, get laughed at by the inspector, then he will give me a fail slip... and he will be wondering why IM the one smiling... then i hand the fail slip off to a buddy with some money for his trouble and in turn i will get a pass slip with "ok to antique" on it. then i will take it to the title and registration dept. and one of my lovely lady friends in there(who all know the car) will be smiling and happily give me my stickers... then i'll get a letter in the mail every 2 years to come in and pay 80 bucks to get new stickers.... that is, untill the wrong cop pulls me over on my way to the strip... and forces me to call my roll back to tow it home or forces me to take it back to the dmv and go through inspection again.. then it will start all over... absoute worse case, i'll just keep one of my companys dealer tags on it all the time... then they can only give my crap for driving like an a$$hole.. at which point, i deserve what ever ticket the officer feels the need to give me... but it won't be about the cars legality.(now untouchable)

my point is, no matter what they "try" to make us do... some one will always find a way around it

again, just my

wannafbody

iTrader: (1)

why dont they put a catalactic converter on on the volcanoes?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

If it is like Texas....It is a county, not city thing.

I'm only about 10 miles outside of a county that enforces a sniffer test, so no testing for me, in my county.