Am I wrong? Please read the following exchange between who5252 and myself. Thanking one and all for reading, and possibly sharing their thoughts. Reading is from bottom to top.

Edited by me for my spelling mistakes.

Re: 700R4
Wow! Nothing like cutting a man to the quick and slapping him in his chops at the same time?!

I'll tell you what I'll do since you have to be one of the biggest whiners and complainers I have ever seen.

Do you have a PayPal email? Send it to me. When you do, if you even have one, I'll deposit a paltry $50.00 into your PayPal account just to stop you and your whining attack!

However, lets get a few key points straight sport coat.
1. I was upfront with you throughout our dealings. I told you there is wasn't, isn't, and will not be any warranty implied whatsoever. Used parts, are just that, used parts!
2. I'd be ashamed to say I have a mechanic like the one you say you have turning wrenches for me. I mean for the living love of all that is good! Unable to remove a seized bolt? Dang! Your "do", not mine.
3. Remember the aluminum company that was located by the RR tracks on Lawrence Ave. Company's name was A/E, Aluminum Extrusions? Well, I worked there for a good number of years. So I KNOW a thing or three about the properties of aluminum. A tad bit of heat from a fire wrench, 3 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit in and around the screw/bolt boss, and said bolt will back right out.
4. If and when you do send me a PayPal email address, and I deposit $50.00 into your account, as far as I am concerned, all my communications with you will cease at that point in their complete entirety.
5. Next time, go buy another transmission from Mad Dog Trans!
6. I should have my head examined as the red flags did in fact go off about you from the git-go!

Again, NO WARRANTY! Understand?

You're disappointed??? Have a nice day!

Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
Well since you are unwilling to work with me I have asked my mechanic to try and resolve the problem. Being a seized bolt in aluminum and being a small bolt it is not nearly as easily removed as you make it sound. Plus, now I am fixing a problem that should not be there and risking damaging the product for something I should not be having to deal with. I am also spending money to resolve a problem that I should not have to. If this is so easily resolved fix the problem yourself and as long as all goes well then the deal should be on. But instead of driving my car around with the "perfectly ready" transmission I am fixing problems that I was lead to believe did not exist. If you feel like being a more honest person and working with me let me know. I am disappointed in how this has been handled.

I never said a refund was the only option. But you should have at least worked with me to resolve a problem that should not be mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat59
Trans was in good working order. Internally, this trans wasn't slipping, it shifted great when I had it removed from my ride. Like I said to you when we were standing at the tailgate of your truck. I knew of my ride 9 to almost 10 years before I purchased it.

But to refund the $400.00 because of a broken bolt head? Unless you can come up with some concrete proof of something internal that is bad wrong with this trans, not because of a broken bolt head. I state unequivocally, No Refunds will be given! Sorry.





Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
He is a good mechanic but I really do not want to risk this. You sold me this stating it was in perfect working order and could be installed with no issues. I understand you did not know about this but your statement that this was ready to be installed with no issues is not correct. Good deal or not I don't want to risk this going bad and I am out 400 for a transmission I never installed. If you do not want to work out any deals I believe the best way to handle this would be to return the transmission for a refund. Unless you want to pay for fixing a problem that should not have existed. I ask that you do not put me in a situation like this and just take back the transmission. If it was such a good deal you can easily sell it to someone else for less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat59
If my minds eye is seeing things correctly, the bolt you're speaking of is located on the drivers side of the trans. The bolt size is M6x20 and a 10MM hex head.

I was until your notification, totally unaware of this broken bolt head. I had someone else do the trans switch for me when I had it done.

Since this is an aluminum case, this being a blind bolt, more than likely the bolt has seized its self with the aluminum case. Having no prior knowledge, there is no way knowing what the condition of the bolt in the boss is. However, center punching the bolt, drilling a hole and using the appropriate easy-out, along with adding a bit of heat using a fire wrench, said bolt should back right out without drilling and destroying any of the threads.

Further I direct your attention to my earlier reply whereby I stated I could not guarantee because of trans and the torque converter being used.

Not knowing who your mechanic is, I certainly cannot draw any conclusions to his mechanical abilities. Although it seems logical this person should be well able and equipped to handle an operations such as removing a bolt without any fuss.

In conclusion, I am gathering you're looking for some kind of refund. At any time, I will not offer any refunds.

I do know this. You got a darn good deal. A rebuilt trans will run a heck of a lot more than $400.00.


Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
I dropped the transmission off at the mechanic today and he immediately pointed out that the bolt where the TV cable screws in is broke off in where the bolt should go. He said this is a very hard bolt to drill out. I need to know how you want to handle this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat59
A quick note to advise you that I received a call to work Thursday 16 July 08. So, if you're still interested
I will be home for contact after 3 PM. If you've since
changed your mind, please disregard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
One last question... I will take the transmission either way but just curious if you are willing to seperate the converter from the deal? (I already have 3 here and know I will use one of mine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat59
I'm home from work by 3:00 PM daily. I'll be home all day Wednesday and Thursday.

Danny Cathcart
XXXX Hawthorn Drive
Jackson, MI

517-784-XXXX

Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
Sounds good. What times are good for you to pick it up. I am going to run little test on mine to make sure it is junk and if so, will be on my way to get yours soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat59
And I certainly would like to thank you for your interest too!

However, I'm just a common man with a damn good used 700R4 for sale in excellent working order, that has been stored in my climate controlled shop. This isn't some run-of-the-mill junk trans that has been sitting outside behind the shop in the weeds.

Being used, I can't guarantee. As a common man, all I have is what I came into this world with. My word.
I learned a long long time ago to be extra good to your word.

It's up to you. $400.00 for trans and stock torque converter - you pick up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
I am very interested. I fully believe this tran will work great but do you offer any refunds for problems. (I would have it installed days after getting it and if I have problems show you the car so you could verify) I guess I am just nervous on spending 400 for something used, that is all.

Other than that, when are you available? Jackson is not far and I would love to get this thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat59
Yeah, it would work with your '91 with no problem at all. The only thing you might wish to do is use the tail shaft off of the 700R4 that is in your car now - so your speedo works appropriately.

Trans worked great when I pulled it out of my ride. The only reason I did, was to install a fully built 700R4 good to 600 hp/torque. Trans is in damn good shape! Stock torque converter goes with trans. There was no slippage, or any problems with the operating condition of trans.

Like I stated it my first PM to you, this trans has approximately 41 thousand and some change miles on it.

Bottom line; $400.00 takes it. You come and pick it up.


That would work with a 91 no problem right? I am interested. Do you have a price?

What condition? Have you driven it and did it slip at all or have any problems?
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You asked for opinions - so here's one;

"As Is" means "As Is". With that said, any obvious defects should have been identified and pointed out at the time of sale. As soon as you parterd ways - the deal was over. If you knew about it - you should have spoken up. ( you did say that it was you that pulled the tranny - that would lead me to believe you would know about such a defect.) If he saw it he should have said something of left with his $$. You both walked away satisfied - deal done.

If I sell something "As Is" than I don't hold onto the cash and wait until the buyer has used the stuff before I spend the cash. If I'm selling something - I need the $$ and it gets spent. A broken bolt is a real PITA, but it doesn't warrent a refund.

You did the right thing by offering the dude $50. This should be more than enough $$ for ANY mechanic to get the bolt out and re-tap the hole (if needed.) I can understand why he's not happy ( I would be pissed too ). He could have bought a V8 700R4 from ANY junkyard with a warrenty for that kind of $$ - but he didn't & "As Is" means "As Is".

 

I think he is right. A split bolt is a headache but not a big deal. heat and easyout would fix. Just my opinion.

 

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions.

 

not entirely true, a lot of times when a steel bolt is seized in a piece of aluminum it will never come back out, the metals rot and corrode together and kind of fuse together. The only way to remove it is to drill it out, and retap the hole.

I dont see this as a big deal? its a small bolt, drill it out and be done, it may even come out with an e-z out and just broke because some idiot torqued it too much.

CAT59, IMHO, i feel that you are in the right with this and shouldn't worry about it just because somebodies "mechanic" doesnt want to try to remove a broken bolt.

 

Originally Posted by who5252
I dropped the transmission off at the mechanic today and he immediately pointed out that the bolt where the TV cable screws in is broke off in where the bolt should go. He said this is a very hard bolt to drill out. I need to know how you want to handle this.


^ Was the bolt broke off before / or after you sold this to who5252?? Because honestly if it was broke off already when he picked it up it's his fault for not inspecting it.

And if it wasn't broke off, I still don't think you would be liable for damages incurred after it left your hands. You didn't mislead or try to deceive him. You sold him a used part with no guarantee and he knew that going in.

 

Key words " as is " , galvanic reaction is the corrosion of two dis-similar metals like aluminum and steel . I garantee I could get it out , use some heat and a reverse cut drill bit , drill it nice and slow and hope the bit catches at some point and it will walk it right out , if that doesn't work then you have a hole to put the easy out in . Your mechanic should have had that out in 5 minutes and charged you 5 dollars for the slight trouble . What kind of automotive mechanic in this day and age hasn't faced this problem atleast once a month , most vehicles in the last 30 years are loaded with aluminum and steel parts this happens all the time . I think you need to find a new wrench to work on your stuff .

 

I give! Anyone have rope so I can hang myself? humor


who5252
Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: 700R4
I need to know if after I verify the new transmission works and the one I received from you was faulty if you are going to provide a refund.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
I see you sent the 50 dollars. I hope you have read the below message. I would like to know what you would like to do. I want to inform you that we have ordered a new transmission. That should be put in shortly. Assuming that works then we know the transmission I obtained from you was faulty. (Not blaming you, just pointing it out) I hope this is enough proof for you to provide the money back.

To summarize, I spent:

400 on the tranmission
200 to have installed
100 to drill out seized bolt

I am in for 700 for something that did not work and I have to start over and spend this money again. I could really use your cooperation and understanding on this sitaution and help me out.

A couple of other facts that show problems with the transmission and problems by who removed it for you:

There was a broken and seized bolt
Gasket was removed but pan was bolted back up
Parts were floating in the botton of the pan
Not sure how to explain this but parts that support I believe line pressure had been removed

There were a lot of problem that were maybe tied to the person you had remove this. Either way, I have taken a severe hit on this hope you understand my situation and are willing to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
Hopefully you read my last message to understand where I am coming from. I am not whining, I am trying to express my concerns with taking on the risk of fixing a problem that was not mine.

Well, the mechanic was able to fix that problem. The tranny is now installed but barely drivable. 1st gears works with some slipping and the rest of the gears either slip badly or do not go in. 2nd barely works and I can't even tell if it is getting in third because it is slipping so bad. I hope we can figure this out. I don't want to get hostile or anything but I gave you 400 and this transmission does not work at all. I am not calling you out but I ask that you please work with me. I am already out 300 to have it installed and currently out 400 for the transmission when it is not working. There were other problems with the transmission that they discovered after installing it. They fixed those but it still is not driving well at all.

Let me know what you want to do. I understand there was no warantee but that usually means problems I may have caused after the fact. This thing is not working the way it was described from the start. Not pointing blame, just stating the facts.

 

There ya go!

Looks like he owns two transmissions now......just ignore his emails from here on.

 

I did not know this post existed. First, let me try to defend myself and apologize for any spelling errors. I was typing quickly and not paying that much attention to spelling.

The seized bolt. It was not so much of a money issue but the risk I was talking on. I know a mechanic can fix that but thing can go wrong. And as many pointed out it can be a PITA to fix. This tranny was suppose to be ready to go, drop in and run. Now I am having a mechanic fix a problem and I am assuming the risk. I did not notice the seized bolt when I bought the car and am not that mechanically savvy so I did not look over the outside. That is my fault as not being mechanical I probably should not have bought this like I did. Also, the only option was not for him to provide money. I was looking for him to come back with options that he thought were fair. He ended up getting mad and just sending 50 dollars.

Next, this transmission got installed. He resolved the seized bolt. Then even though this transmission was suppose to be ready to run, absolutely nothing needed but to be installed had the following problems. And again, I may not explain these well as I am not that mechanical.

1. Seized bolt
2. Pan was installed but had no gasket at all.
3. After my mechanic went to install the gasket he noticed parts parts laying in the pan and had to work on the internals, wire looms I believe? (If this thing is ready to be installed and required nothing why is it missing a gasket and parts in the bottom of the pan?)
4. Certain pressure plugs were completely removed and missing that he needed to obtain and install. I very well may have misexplained that.

Regardless, this transmission had many problems and was not as discribed. It slipped like I have never felt a transmission slip before. Barely can accelerate in any gear and I can't even tell if it shifts into third it is slipping so bad.

Please don't put this on mechanic as he had done very good work for me. I now know it was the transmission as he purchased another one for me. Installed it and I drove the car home today. It ran like a dream.

I tried my best to be civil in our conversations but with the quick resistance I received considering all the problems I was experiencing after the money I spent I may have used poor words and should not have.

I hope that Cat59 and I can work this out. I am not a bad person, just considering the situation I was a little pissed as you may be able to understand.

If we can not resolve this then I will work other option that are available.

 

08-01-2008, 10:14 AM
who5252
Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: 700R4
You have stated the following:

"As a common man, all I have is what I came into this world with. My word.
I learned a long long time ago to be extra good to your word.
"

And

"But to refund the $400.00 because of a broken bolt head? Unless you can come up with some concrete proof of something internal that is bad wrong with this trans, not because of a broken bolt head. I state unequivocally, No Refunds will be given!"

I am guessing who ever removed this tranmission did something. Cause if it was perfect when you took it to be removed something must have happened. It is all I can come up with.

After installed this transmission slipped horrible. I could barely accelerate, could not even tell if it was shifting into third it was slipping so bad. There were multiple problems. Seized bolt, missing plugs, no gasket, and part laying in the bottom of the pan. Not to mention it did not work at all. Now before I came back to you and said the transmission was bad I wanted to install a new one to remove the possibility of any other problems. The new one was installed yesterday and the car run perfect.

Now based on what you have stated I hope you understand the situation. I am not blaming you or saying you tried to screw me. But something happened and this transmission had a ton of problems and is completely unusable.

Please let me know if you are willing to work with me. I payed more than I wanted to before this was a perfect condition transmission behind a stock 305 with low milage. I hope you understand and we can work this out. Not fair to either one of us but this transmission is not worth anything unfourtunately.

Today, 03:17 PM
who5252
Junior Member

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13

Classifieds Rating: (0)

700R4
Danny,

I have been trying to reach you to talk this over like adults. I honestly just wanted to discuss and hopefully work out an understanding. You had stated that if I could prove the transmission had fatal problems you would provide a refund. Well I have and you will not answer my calls or return my messages. I tried everything I could to work this out civally.

This is to inform you that unless I hear back from you before Friday I will be taking this to small claims court.

Travis
__________________
1991 Camaro Z28 w/ 350 TPI

My Response Below.

Private Message: Re: 700R4
Recipients: who5252
Today, 07:11 PM
Cat59
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Posts: 130
Car: '87 IROC Z w/40,000 miles
Engine: 305 F code motor
Transmission: 4 speed auto
Axle/Gears: 3.23

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Re: 700R4
Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
Danny,

I have been trying to reach you to talk this over like adults. I honestly just wanted to discuss and hopefully work out an understanding. You had stated that if I could prove the transmission had fatal problems you would provide a refund. Well I have and you will not answer my calls or return my messages. I tried everything I could to work this out civally.

This is to inform you that unless I hear back from you before Friday I will be taking this to small claims court.

Travis
1. I never offered any warranties to you at any time, as noted and contained within our messages back and forth PRIOR to your purchasing the trans. My answer at that time was I could not warranty due the trans being used. You obviously agreed by buying.
2. Having no prior knowledge of the bolt being broken until you brought it to my attention, I gave you back $50.00 in which you acknowledged receiving by answering in the affirmative.
3. Now you're threatening me with court action. Even after you've found I went public with all of our correspondences - which should shown you at that time I am a straight shooter. This correspondence between you and I will also be posted in the public section of this forum.
4. The trans with the exception of the broken bolt was as far as I knew, in good working order.
5. You mechanic can say one thing, the mechanic I hired to initially switch out the transmissions for me will say the trans you bought was in good working order when he pulled it out of my ride.
6. In all honesty, the argument could be made you and/or your mechanic has done something wrong during the installation of the 700R4 into your car. You did admit to me that this trans will be your third trans
mission you have installed. Leads me to believe that you must be doing something wrong. I dunno?
7. If you'll remember, you didn't even ask for a bill of sale from me.
8. Again I must reintegrate, you knowing full well BEFORE buying that there wasn't any warranty implied or otherwise, bought anyways. Now you're insisting on continuing to bust my chops every chance you get.
9. It saddens me to see that you have resorted to threats of legal action. In which case, I guess I'll be seeing you in court.
10. I once again will go on record by asking you to not contact me again.

Have a nice day.
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I say go to court and let the judge decide who is at fault....you'll have to prove it was a good transmission when he bought it and he'll have to prove it was defective....it could go either way at this point.

Good luck and let the games begin

 

I just want to know, honestly what would you guys do? I hate the idea of going to court. I hate that this situation exists. But I have over 700 into this adventure. (Install cost, fixing it, driving to get it) It was without a doubt dead on arrival. A new one was intalled and it works perfect so I know my car did not do anything to the first one. It was undrivable from the moment we tried to use it. I am now hurting for money because of all the money I spent on the first one. I honestly feel that while this was sold as is, it coming down to, you gave me the money sucker. Third genner to third genner I know if I did this to someone I would give the money back. We are not talking about a 10 dollar sway bar or something. This is a transmission I spent extra on because of all the great stats he told me about it. I thought I was making a good decision to pay extra for a better part.

I just want opinions. Either way, I have learned a lesson. So I guess I made something out of this.

 

This is how I'm seeing things at this point in time Travis. You're thinking I knowingly put the screws to you by knowingly selling you a bogus transmission.

I didn't. I bought a transmission ('88 700R4) from a a guy out of New York state who posted it as for sale here at TGO. I spent a VERY pretty penny for the trans. Upon receipt, I had the trans completely opened up, and fully gone through by the same mechanic I previously mentioned. Everything looked good with the exception of the reverse clutches (used clutches were installed instead of new clutches). New reverse clutches at that point were installed. The trans switch proceeded.

The trans you bought was brought home, stored in my shop on a piece of plywood as you saw when you picked it up.

I told you everything I knew about the trans. Trans was in good working order when removed from my IROC. I can stand before all that is good and say that statement without any hesitation or reservations. PERIOD!

I'm not, nor have I ever been in the market of screwing over folks. Thats kind of stuff always comes back to haunt you. The Karma thing. Not good.

You have repeatedly asked "what will I do to work with you"? (paraphrased) I honestly don't have even the slightest idea as to what your definition of "working with you" is.

However. Even though every pore in my body is crying out, and telling me not to do this because of me telling you via our private messages that there was not, or will not be any warranty... I with the good spirit of fellowship will offer to place into your account the sum of $150.00

If this isn't an acceptable remedy, one that will bring this to a closure, then I honestly don't know what is.

Like you, I'm not wanting to go into a court of law, in front of a Judge asking who's right, and who's not. If this offered token of good will is refused by you, there is little choice other than going before the Judge in his/her court allowing him or her to make the ultimate decision, which I will whole heartedly do with no regrets.

This correspondence too will be place in the public forum.

 

It sucks having to trust people, especially with parts that you can't test before hand.

We can't make a judgment with who is at fault because none of us were there to witness what was said between the both of you.

If you really feel like you were screwed and deliberately sold a bad transmission with the owner claiming it to be "in great shape" then you have the right to sue him in small claims court to protect yourself......that's why we have this system set up.

But if you do not have anything in writing (contract, canceled check etc) then it's going to be really hard to prove your case.

It's worth a try because it's not going to cost you much more than just your time and the fees. Just make sure you come prepared and have all your documentation from your mechanic. If the defendant doesn't show up then your automatically awarded the judgment.

Good Luck

 

The judge is going to ask you why you pulled your original transmission and replaced it with another one? Was there something wrong with that first one? If there wasn't anything wrong with it why didn't you just keep it?


Be prepared for questions like that.......

 

Keeping it was no problem. Never was. Trans is the original. The problem was, I was tired of tripping over it. When I saw "who's" post wanting a trans for his ride, after some thought, I said what the hay, you're tired of tripping over it, sell it. So I answered his post. The rest is obviously history.

As to why I originally did the switch? Plans were, and still are to build some horsepower. First using the 305 TPI (which I am doing), then building a nice healthy small block upon my retirement. Simple as that. So using something that was purposely built to handle the additional hp and torque was a no brainer.

In keeping with being above board. who5252' latest response.

Re: 700R4
First, I don't think you are trying to screw me. Normally I would because transmissions do not just break after being removed in perfectly good working condition. But I have read your posts and your comments and based on that I think we are both getting the raw deal. Yes, I received the transmission broke, no you did intentionally sell it to me broke. The only thing I can come up with is your mechanic did something when removing it. I feel this way because of the problems I described to you. Why else would things be broke, parts missing and other random parts be laying in the bottom of the pan. My guess is your mechanic thought this transmission could be scrapped and used some parts out of your old one for your new one. I honestly based on that feel bad that I am asking for money back. I think you built a new tranny based on that fact that you knew you could sell your old one for some money. It just happens it got broke somewhere along the lines. I hope you understand, that is what I mean by this whole situation sucks.

Give me a couple hours to think this over and I will get back to you. I have taken such a huge hit on this that after 150 I will still be hurting. But like you said, it may be better than battles in the courtroom. I do appreciate it that you are working with me on this. Again, the situation is just terrible for both of us.

 

Travis,

Fair enough. You can expect the money to be placed in your account by days end. Probably around noon give or take a few.

I consider this matter close. And will be asking the Moderators to lock my post after I post this in the public forum.



[QUOTE=who5252]Danny,

I will accept payment of 150.00. As soon as it comes through paypal I will accept it and we can consider this issue closed. I appreciate you understanding the situation and working to resolve this. It is unfortunate that we both got placed in this situation because of items I don't believe we knew about or could control.
----------
Moderators, if possible, could this series of posts please be locked?

 

Was reading through this. My comment of:

"Yes, I received the transmission broke, no you did intentionally sell it to me broke."

Was suppose to read:

"Yes, I received the transmission broke, no you did NOT intentionally sell it to me broke."

Wanted to make that clear, I was trying to point out that I did not think he sold it to me broke on purpose.

 

Private Message: Re: 700R4
Recipients: who5252
Today, 12:04 PM
Cat59
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Posts: 130
Car: '87 IROC Z w/40,000 miles
Engine: 305 F code motor
Transmission: 4 speed auto
Axle/Gears: 3.23

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: 700R4
Quote:
Originally Posted by who5252
Danny,

I will accept payment of 150.00. As soon as it comes through paypal I will accept it and we can consider this issue closed. I appreciate you understanding the situation and working to resolve this. It is unfortunate that we both got placed in this situation because of items I don't believe we knew about or could control.

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