I've posted a similar question before, but didnt recieve a difinitive answer, that makes me order my parts off of summit, and install anything. I searched a while before posting.

I am building an 87 Formula 350.

The car now has a 357 w/ Vortec heads, 700r4 with shift kit, 1 single stock electric fan, off of a switch, no thermostat. I live in florida, where the temperature is usually in the high 80's to 90's, in daylight. The car will probably be driven on weekends, or on occasions, but I want it to be able to be driven daily, without worrying.

My questions:
Can I run an ''External'' Cooler without utilizing my factory, radiator based tranny cooler.

I read that the fitting onto the transmission was 5/16" Inverted Flare fitting, can I use something like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13004/, on the inlet and outlet, than run rubber lines, specifically made for tranny coolers, to run to a cooler mounted on the front of the radiator?

What type of cooler would be the best thing for my use?

Thanks so much!

 

If you are trying to bypass the radiator, why do you need the fitting to adapt to the radiator? I have a cooler on mine and it uses both the radiator cooler and the aftermarket one on the front of the condenser. And the fitting on mine looks a lot like the one you linked to.

 

I need the fitting to adapt to the transmission itself, so I can hook up rubber lines to it, than run those rubber lines to the "External" cooler.

I do not posess the factory hard lines, to utilize the radiator.

 

In a hot climate like Florida, the preferred way would be to avoid using the radiator and just run the external cooler.

Get a stacked plate cooler. Much better than the cheaper tube & fin design. I use a Long Tru Cool stacked plate transmission cooler. I went for their 11x12" size. Works wonders in Houston traffic/heat/humidity etc.

 

Awesome, thats what I was looking for.

I JUST recieved this response from Summit, I asked the same question above, and they just got back to me tonight:

"The thread side in the transmission case is 1/4" pipe. The fitting that threads into the case as well as the cooler fitting in the radiator should be 5/8"-18 inverted flare. You can bypass the radiator cooler if the vehicle is not used in cold climates. In cold climates the radiator cooler will bring the transmission up to temp faster reducing wear.

Thanks,
Matt"

So, I guess now, I wonder, what IS the actual fitting size on the 700r4 transmission?

Thanks guys!

 

Alright, I think Summit is wrong about the thread size, I cannot even find a similar type fitting, as the one i posted a link to earlier, in the 5/8" size, just the 5/16" that I read on TGO.

So all I need to know is:

Is the thread size on the 700r4 cooling lines 5/16", or 5/8" ?

Im really leaning towards the 5/16, because it doesnt even look nearly that large of a size.

Thanks!

 

DON'T BYPASS THE STOCK COOLER, PERIOD... It will result in a HOTTER running transmission. Route the trasnmission fluid into the stock cooler first then through the aftermarket. This way the 140-160* water in the return tank of the radiator will cool down the 190-240*F (the fluid for the cooler comes from the converter, not the pan) fluid quickly and then the aftermarket cooler will pull it down further. It will also help keep the aftermarket cooler from pumping as much heat into your a/c condensor. I have my 1983 G20 van setup like this and have a 2,800 stall. The datastream shows the transmission never gets above 180*F when its 105* outside and thats stuck in traffic with the a/c on.

 

Well, I have already ordered the parts necessary to bypass the factory cooler. Thus far the only source I have read NOT to bypass, is what you've just posted. I think I will take my chances, and Im sure I will be okay. If something does happen, than Summit will replace my transmission, because they told me it was okay to do. Although, Im sure it will be okay, my dad has an old 60s ford truck with a high performance engine, and auto transmission, with no factory cooler, and it runs fine.

Thanks

 

How are you getting 140-160° radiator temperatures in this kind of weather?

The surface area of the transmission cooler is much larger than the pencil sized tube that runs from the top of the radiator to the bottom. My cooler is designed for motor homes and towing up to 5,000 lbs. I'm using the Tru-Cool # 4490 cooler.

When you're moving, you're getting great airflow across the transmission cooler. It's the first thing that gets hit by air. When you're driving slow or stopped, the radiator fans are pulling air across the transmission cooler. I don't have my transmission cooler mounted to the condenser. There is an air gap between the two (helps both devices work better).

Realistically, on a hot day, the radiator will be running at 190-210° (stock rad, stock fans). Why would you want to run your transmission fluid through that? My transmission runs at 160° during Houston summer traffic in the (ultra busy and slow) Galleria traffic. 170° tops.


There are situations where you should run it through the radiator first. Some Fords use transmission temperature as a requirement for going into closed loop. A bypassed radiator would never get into closed loop. If you're driving down the highway in -30° weather with a bypassed radiator, your transmission fluid would turn into jello. If I lived someplace like Seattle and drove year round, I'd probably run it through the radiator as well. Helps warm up the transmission and radiator faster during cold starts.

The Long Tru Cool has a low pressure bypass. Basically it sends the fluid above the transmission cooler where there is no cooling going on. Once it warms up, it diverts through the stacked plate area and cools. In Florida or Texas, this feature isn't all that important. But it's still nice to have for that rare cold day that we get.

 

My Radiator is a for a 5.0/5.7/6.2/454 Diesel Van/Truck with tow package and has a 7 fin/plate type cooler in it, not that skinny pencil most aftermarkets try to run. It is a 4 core design.

I recorded the temperature with my infared thermometer which I have found just as accurate as the contact type.

Van has a 180*F thermostat in it and the return side tank runs around 140-150*F at operating temperature, even just idling. At idle the transmission fluid entering the stock cooler immediately after a thorough thrashing (20-30 second footstall @ 2,600 rpm @ WOT and at a dead stop) is around 190-230*F. It is exiting at around 160*F. The giant cooler I run in front of the condensor pulls it down to around 130*F at idle. The temperature in the pan (Stock 4L60E sensor) has yet to see the high side of 180*F even towing a trailer in this heat.

I am running a compressor works 911679 from Autozone. It is HUGE.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...questid=368590



My van makes enough HP that the cooling system modifications are VERY worth it.



FWIW, it also has a high flow water pump with a distribution ring riveted to the impellor, Mr Gasket 180*F high flow thermostat, Stock 3rd gen type oil/water engine oil cooler, and Nissan Altima 3.5 V6 2spd cooling fans (both condensor fans)

 

This is a third gen Camaro forum. Not Astro van. Cooling is much different on Camaros.

 

I've got a question. I was running my 87 trans am gta without a thermostat and it would run 160-180 on interstate.and when i would be in traffic, it would run around 220 or little more. so i put a 190 degree thermostat and now it constantly runs at 220 and higher. I need advice on what my problem could be.(water pump?thermostat?) please help me! Is the motor suppose to run that hot?? thanks

 

Florida in summer traffic, it's going to run at 220° even with the thermostat open and fans running. I'm assuming your A/C is on, which only makes the car run hotter as well.

 

Florida has cooler weather than here...I can only wish my days were that cool.

Run BOTH coolers, in-line together. You don't NEED the factory hard lines, to run the factory cooler. You can plumb it with soft lines, just like you did with the aftermarket cooler.

 

ok, but it shouldn't run that hot(220) on the HIGHWAY i wouldnt think???even if it is 90 degrees outside? also if I do change my water pump(which i probably will) should i get a stock because since i've got a stock radiator, wouldn't it mess up my cooling if i got a higher flowing water pump???
thanks

 

Really dude, you choose this for your FIRST AND ONLY post..... Its not an Astro van either. It does however have a 383 TPI and 700r4 with a 2,800 rpm Yank converter in it along with dual electric fans. I guess its not all that different than a BEEFED up 3rd gen now is it???

 

You could always get a new tranny pan that is either ribbed/finned or tubed like the Derale 14104 (discontinued for the new 14204 which comes out November 2010, don't ask me why so long) which would help a little bit in cooling what is in the pan. I will be getting the derale pan as its the only one out right now that has these tubes through the pan itself, but may wait off until the new 14204 comes out, and hopefully sooner than next November.

 

I know it's been a long time since this thread was active. But the question on bypassing the radiator vs running through the radiator first is a common question. I looked over some notes I took back in August of this year.

August 2015, Houston TX. Ambient temp = 101°F. Humidity was it's usual "ugh."......5PM rush hour traffic on the way home from work. The last 20 minutes from home was stop and go consisting of 0-20 mph.

Coolant temp: 215°F. Both coolant fans on.

A/C condenser: 162°F (aprox 300 psi) Turning the A/C off resulted in the condenser dropping to 127°F in about 5 seconds.

External transmission cooler (radiator bypassed) at entry of cooler = 177°F. This was the hottest point of the cooler.

In summary, it looks like bypassing the radiator is the way to go in hot climates. I see no point in running the transmission fluid through a 215° radiator first. The high humidity in Houston keeps our temperatures from getting much higher than 100°. We only get about 3-4 days per year of 100+ weather on average. So 5PM rush hour with 101° is about as harsh of a test as I can do here. A simple image search for "transmission temp chart" shows that 175° is considered to be low temp and long life.

 

I know we usually agree on most things but I DISAGREE COMPLETELY with this statement on bypassing the OEM cooler. Your coolant temp might be 215°F at the sender but it is MUCH cooler on the cool side radiator tank, especially when driving. I tow my 6,000 lbs brick of a travel trailer on a 105°F day in bumper to bumper with my Express and beating the hell out of it only saw 185°F at the factory temperature sensor in the 4L80E despite 205°F coolant temps. I have a big Derale cooler with a fan that turns on at 175°F on the inlet side of the cooler (the side leaving the factory radiator cooler) and the only time it ever kicks the fan on is in long periods of idling in traffic in gear. Probably a lack of airflow and coolant flow from my 25% underdrive pulleys that even causes that.

If having the factory cooler in place was detrimental it would show up in my system yet the temperatures stay very stable. Even WOT with the converter unlocked and the engine and trans dumping heat into the cooling system. ~350 HP L31 350 and a 2,300 rpm 4.3 dual stator converter in the 80E with tall 3.73 gearing that works that converter and engine hard moving 12K lbs.

 

Here is a screen shot of my typical unloaded transmission temps. 165-180°F as long as I am not towing or stuck at idle speeds for 20-30 minutes. With IATs of 110°F and above you know it is hot outside too.

 

I push the poor van harder than most ever think about pushing their sports cars much less a box on wheels.