how does one use an electric water pump with the serpentine system without spending stupid money??? ive done the TB coolant bypass, heater core bypass, 160stat, fans wired constant key one (car came like that so im kinda mad about it because it doesnt get hot enough in the winter). stock radiator, stock fans.. sometimes it runs cool, like right around the first notch which is around 180 or so, but i REALLY need an airdam because it gets around 220 when im on the highway..

 

No problem-glad I can help. Be careful on the T-56 swaps. Realize that on a radical engine espescially if you run a carb, that the 6th gear will really lug the motor down. Running 1400-1600 RPM @ 80 mph in 6th can be problematic. My suggestion is to go with the TKO 5-speed instead. The gears are pretty close ratio and first gear is I believe is 3.82 (or so) with 5th being 1.00 so that will keep you in your RPM powerband a lot better overall than the T-56 will.

 

I've never bothered trying to do an electric wp mockup on a serpentine-I've done custom vacuum pumps with my own CNC cut aluminum brackets-but no water pump...that would be a big pita. Like most things electric, an electric water pump durability/longevity is measured in service hours so I would prefer to keep them as all out race only-not a good idea for the street imo. One thing to keep in mind that while the stock radiators are on the small side, you could compensate that by going with a massive electric fan-like a Mark VIII for example. 5000 CFM's @ full speed with about a 32 amp draw-hands down the most powerful fan ever designed that I've ever found. I build kits using them and they are the most robust fan you'll ever find. I used to use Spal controllers but they have cheapened their controllers (I imagine so you can only run low amp fans or theirs even) by incorporating an over-voltage protection circuit so @ start up if the fan pulls too much amperage, the controller just shuts down. Stupid idea for a high output fan imo. I've since gone back to my tried and true HD 70 amp relay with a temp. switch to ground for activation.

 

In regards to the nasty comments made on here earlier. I have been on this forum since March I believe which is not a long time( Im still a noob). I have also been on a couple of other forums and I must say that by far this forum has the nicest and most helpful people on it. Its also pretty laid back with a bunch of guys guys and gals who really like their cars for the most part. I am totally impressed that you guys still were willing to help this newbie out after his comments. No one was telling anyone what to do. I just think it was good sound advice which is what I have always gotten on here.

Kevin

 

Hey, I just try to share some knowledge. I consider myself a pretty good "tinkerer" so i've learned a lot over the years. Nobody can ever know everything so it's fun just to swap info or ideas with others. And yes, this board has a pretty good group of enthusiasts on it...I like it here.

 

I have herd that it is easy to run a serp. belt system with electric water pump. A lot of people can't seem to understind how its possible for me to run an electric water pump with a V-belt.

 

mines carb but i just put a dual electric fan on my aluminum radiator and a manuel fan switch and i just turn my fans on when i start it and it keeps my car round 160-175 at all times even in stop and go traffic

 

Well, imo the potential risk for a water pump failure is the primary reason I would advise against using one on the street. I personally have not seen a serpentine setup for use with an electric water pump-they may be out there but I have not searched for one. Bypassing the water pump pulley on a v-belt system is not as drastic as running a serpentine belt sans the water pump. On a serpentine system, the water pump pulley serves to provide a leverage point for the automatic tensioner for which to maintain a tight belt to minimize slippage. You can run a shorter belt to go directly from the alternator to the crank but the whole point of a serpentine belt is to provide very minimal distances between accessories-this is why people don't throw these belts...the factory serpentine systems on GM cars is very well designed. For the headache it would create...I would skip the electric water pump on a serpentine system....time/money is better spent elsewhere on the cooling system.

 

I just did another 3000 mile round trip from virginia to texas with my proform pump. They work pretty good for me.
I thought it would be easier to convert a v-belt engine to electric than a serp belt.
When the electric water pump that I am going to use on my 6.2L diesel came in I put it in a sink filled with water to just below the electric motor when I put 12 volts on the pump and and it primed I was very impressed with the flow. I would say free flowing, 35gpm is an understatement. To have that much coolant flow when stopped or in slow moving traffic you will never over heat.

 

Remember too than more important than just the amount of coolant flow is how much heat is pulled out of it through the radiator, which is why I suggested the highest cfm electric fan you can find-what good is it to move a ton of coolant if the fan is not up to the task of pulling more heat out? It sounds though like you have a well rounded cooling system. It's the same reason R134 doesn't "feel" as cold as R12 does. R134 moves at a higher pressure ie faster rate through the system so on retro-fits, people think the AC system is failing because the R134 doesn't blow out cold enough air. More often than not, going with a bigger fan to pull more air out of the radiator is all you have to do. Water pumps only need to spin fast enough to allow the fan some time to draw the heat out....move the coolant too fast and you can't pull out enough heat so you will always run hot-move too little (to a certain extent) and you end up running luke warm or cool-similar to a thermostat being stuck open all the time. I always use the standard volume aluminum water pumps.

 

I use a stock single fan setup (the big one) with a slightly modified shroud found in 1989 V6 camaros. I also added a 12 inch pusher fan.

 

on the ford fan...the Mark VIII or a taurus, they flow 4000-5000 cfm....no aftermarket fan flow these #'s....that and a good radiator will make all the diff.(don't for get the air dam)....

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedw...tors,3557.html
Bye the way it's a 19 x 31....
I bought this for my car...you will have to modify a lil' but it's the cheapest 1" 2row rad. I could find....

The only negative on this rad. is that there is no trany line hookups and no heater hose fitting....I had a Russel 12-AN weld in bung welded in for my heater hose and so far Im happy with the results....

Hope this helps.....

 

would electric water pump be good for cooling the engine after off? with electric fans? sure the amp draw would be critical but compromises.

 

Just run a shorter belt it's way easyI ran it off a modified stock serpentine setup. Mine lasted a year and a half like that

 

Yes running the electric pump with the engine off will cool your engine and depending on what kind of thermo stat you have running the main fans might not do much to cool it off once the thermostat closes.
What I do when my car is running real hot I will turn the engine off and run the main fans for until the thermostat starts to close. Then if I want the engine to cool off more than that I run the heater fan on full blast.
The amp draw is only about 5amps for the pump and 5 to 10 amps for the fan.

 

We learned all about oil viscosity, chemical make up etc. but nobody talked about the basics of the thermostat or F-body cooling system for that matter.

Thermostats serves two puporses. First, to heat the engine to normal operatin tempture by keeping the coolant in the waterjacket rather than cycling it through the radiator constantly. This puts the ECM in closed loop mode which cause the ECM to operate off of the engine's sensors and not a default values pre-programed in the prom.

Secondly, At normal operating tempture, it increases the amout of time the hot coolant is in the radiator to cool off. The thermostat opens, allows hot coolant into the radiator and cooler coolant into the water jacket. Then closes. After this happens, the fans should kick on forcing cool air through the radiator to cool off the hot coolant especialy if your are not moving down the road. and the cycle should repeat.

The air-dam is important because it cause the air that would of went under the car to flow through the radiator. Your truck probably has a big grill and blunt nose. The F-Body doesn't. It needs all the help it can get because it channels the air up over the car to reduce the CD. Something as simple as a piece of ruberized plastic under the car can mean a bunch in this case.

The point is, you cannot change one aspect of this system and expect positive results. You need to keep the whole design in mind when making changes. Example, Thermostat and fan switch or ECM Prom adjustment. The high-end information here is all good from what I read but some times you just need to step back from Synthetic Oil, Fan motor wire wrap, total CFM of air volume a fan can pull and think simple some times.

I just got another 85 TPI iroc-z to tinker with, my new weekend warrior. It's overheating. I pulled the thermo and I'm not supprised at all, the previous owner installed a 160*. and there's no air-dam.

Hope I helped. I surely couldn't tell you one thing about the molecular structure of oil.

 

Roger that. I agree. Those damn kids will just have to find out the hard way. He is wasting money too changing his oil every 2k miles... whatever.

CG

 

eh... thats one of my problems I have with my car. :-/
I put a T56 in my camaro, and the ***hole who sold me the T56 didnt tell me anything about the 5th gear not being able to work. well it really bites when I take it on the highway because I would have to go up to 4500 rpms and it would drop way down to a touch below 1500 rpm. really low and I'm sure it eats more gas than it should. I plan on getting the transmission rebuilt when I go to college next year. and I plan on going with 4.56 gear in the rear end. defantly would solve the lugging problem in 6 gear.

 

That gear change would help on the top end but man...you may have to start off in third....lol, first and second would only be suggestions at best. As for specifics on thermostat function...the main reason (and why the ECM is programmed so) is that due to emission reasons, the coolant temperature is designed to run high because it helps reduces the number of oxygen oxides. Running higher combustion temps also help to completely burn more of the atomized mixture which helps to keep power up whiel reducing emissions. While not everybody cares or has state mandated checks, the ECM is programmed this way. If the ECM sees too high of a coolant temp sensor resistance input by using a 160 thermostat, then the ECM thinks the engine is running too cold. The ECM tries to balance this by keeping the fuel pressure higher than if it senses a hotter value thus dumping more fuel in when it is not needed and it results in an increase of oxygen oxides becasue remember, hotter temps burn mor of them off so all you are doing by running a 160 thermostat in an otherwise non-chipped ECM is chasing your tail. This all goes back to my opinion that if you are going to modify a factory EFI or TBI motor, you have to understand what and how the ECM interprets sensor data as it relates to resistance. More often than not, your engine will perform better when taken back to stock condition unless you modify the ECM. Manufacturers anymore have to focus on emissions first, performance second and that is how the ECM are programmed...if your "performance" mods fall too far outside of the accepted values for emission controls, the ECM will de-fault to a pre-programmed map and trip the check engine light. So basically the cooling system is based on emission control and nothing else.

 

if you DID in fact build race engines... you wouldnt
be on here asking questions about this, now would
you?