11sORbust

What ecu system can support 8 ignition coils?Is there any???

Grumpy

LS1's.
Or any engine with a cam synch, ref pulse and an eDist.

11sORbust

I'm sorry,ment to ask what AFTERMARKET ecm.

89 Iroc Z

you can run a eDIST on a stock ECM and use LS1 coils with your stock ECM.

Grumpy

But you have to add a cam position sensor.

11sORbust

couldn't a cps be made to work on the fuel pump lobe(somehow) and the wire(s) ran down f/p pushrod hole? Or just use the L31 dist??

I thought there was a couple of AFTERMARKET ecu's that support multiple coils

Grumpy

Some how, I suppose.
Sure there are some, but have a deeeeep wallet when you investigate MOTECs, EMERALDs, and the like.

SATURN5

MSD has a cam sensor/oil drive thats $116.00.

One's on its way for evaluation.. BW

11sORbust

I'll have to check that out. Let me know how it works out. TPIgirl might like that!

GMH_VQ

Hi guys and,er gals?!

Um Grumpy.. If going in this direction (DIS) which coil setup is better/preferred..

8 LS1 Coils and GM looms, an eDist

or

the V6 style Dual output coil packs, except using 4 not 3, and using the 'wasted spark' setup. with I presume an Edist also.

Still somehow need cam angle sensor, or at least a 0d dist ref pulse limiting inital cranking to 2 revolutions b4 firing, then maintaning pulse count...optical might be best.

It could be neater, and certainly a more plentiful supply of V6 coil packs from the wrecking yard. Different driver board tho.... and

I 'm also not using an actual Chev engine..so raiding some factory cam sensors from a boat isn't entirley an option for either.

???

Sean

Grumpy

CNP is about the best as it's going to get, for a v8. On a v8 you just run out of time to charge and discharge the coil at 6K. Depending on how close your combo is to having the reaction cascade, sets how much ignition you need, so some combos will get by with a HEI at 7K, some others might have to get a CDI. But, in about any case the CNP wins. The big advantage with CNP is the reduction in coil temp., IMO. As the heat goes up in a coil so does it's resistance. By firing them less often the heat is much lower.

FWIW, I've played some with optical, and never have been happy.

Hall Effect seems about the best.

The Turbo Buicks (v6), have been into the 9 Sec ETs using the stock DIS.

Kingtal0n

Im curious about this and I Know next to nothing about DIS.
Grumpy when you said CNP what exactly is that?

How exactly does all this stuff work? You get the coils, the cam sensor, and what? what drives the oil pump if you take out the distributor? How does the ECM know? Can it still control timing?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not Grumpy but . . . CnP is Coil near Plug, one coil for each cylinder. Mounted close to the plug so the coil HV wire is short.

You can do things several ways. The system will need both a cam sensor and a crank sensor. Easiest is to keep the distributor and ignition module. This keeps the ECM happy and provides a crank trigger. For cam there are some SBC timing covers that have a cam sensor. Can also add it to the distributor.

Then the eDIST, this is the guy that sequences through the coils in the correct firing order. Cam sensor in, and EST from ECM in, coil triggers out.

RBob.

JPrevost

Can the eDist work as a Wasted Spark system until a cam position sensor is installed?

dennis6

eDIST Electronic Distributor (patent pending) Introducing eDIST, the latest in electronic distributor technology. eDIST is designed to effectively replace a mechanical distributor for increased reliability and flexibility. It also allows the use of aftermarket EFI systems on engines with distributorless ignition systems, such as the LS1. It is excellent for new vehicles or for high-tech engine swaps.

eDIST is easy to use and program. It's versatile. Operating parameters can be easily configured by the user with DIP switches for many different applications.


Features
- Controls multiple coils on virtually any engine.
- Compatible with LS1 engines - Requires conventional 4X ignition trigger signal
- Compatible with "coil-on-plug" and "waste spark" ignitions
- Can be configured for 2-8 cylinders for "coil-on-lug" applications
- Can be configured for 4-16 cylinders for "wate spark" applications
- Allows the use of aftermarket EFI systems on newer distributorless engines
- Replaces mechanical distributor on older engines
- Retrofits street rods wit "coil-on-plug" technology
- Compatible with "smart coils" and traditional ignition coils

Part # 30-5000 Universal version Price: 329.00
Part # 30-5001 LS1 "coil-on-plug" Direct Fit Price: 299.00

http://www.sratrans.com/fastedist.htm

Grumpy

Nope.
DIS or CNP both need can synchs.

JPrevost

I wasn't clear. What I should have asked is if the eDist would work with a stock HEI dizzy or would it need the signal produced by the 96+ vortec setups?

Grumpy

If the dissy is a dual sensor one, yes.
But you have to look at the shutter for the Hall effect switch. Clever college kid should be able to mottle his way thru with a scope, rather easily.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I don't believe that DIS systems require a cam sensor. They do require a TDC sensor. Hence the crank trigger wheels with the missing tooth. With a coil pack on cylinders 1 & 6 both are at TDC, one compression, the other exhaust, both get the plugs fired. Then 8 & 5 are next up.

The eDist should be able (hopefully!) handle that setup. Four coils in a waste spark arraignment.

RBob.

Grumpy

OK, there are some later ecms, pcms, that use a dual trigger setup for finding which coil to fire, but none that I know use that exclusively, althought the cam is *just* used for synching the SEFI.

For using the eDist in CNP or DIS is gonna take a cam synch thou.

JP84Z430HP

I haven't given up on the Northstar DIS project yet. It just got moved to a back burner until I get some of the parts in my hands(I have a bunch of back burners! LOL)

If anyone wants to see what I have so far (besides what's in my head) check out: Northstar DIS I know there's not a bunch of info thereyet, I still have some notes on paper around here somewhere that I need to get put up there.

SATURN5

Similar to whats been floating around my head...

Except I was thinking of putting the wheel behind the balancer and making the wheel `1/4 thick.

BW

JP84Z430HP

I have thought of several options for mounting the trigger wheel, and this one is definately not a final thing (it is still only on "paper".) My main concern is keeping it a bolt-on type setup. I don't want to have to modfiy the balancer or anything like that. I also want to make sure that it will fit whatever balancer I put on it.

I'm still kicking around the idea of putting the trigger wheel inside the timing cover, using a Vortec type setup, but a different trigger wheel. The downside to this would be losing the second crank sensor that the Northstar uses, although it would just mean that it would take a full revolution to decide what cylinder to fire instead of one-half revolution.

Now thatb I'm thinking about it again, I may have to work on it some more now!

89 Iroc Z

Bringing this back from the dead

I have been looking at different DIS setups lately and I have found some for the 4’th gen’s opti spark but the companies may be willing to make a HEI version.
Here are the sites:
http://www.bailey-eng.com/LTCC.html
http://www.delteq.com/products_opti.htm

JP84Z430HP,
Have you though about using the LS1 24x trigger wheel instead of having one made?

JP84Z430HP

Never even thought of it. I'm not even sure of what it looks like....I'm gonna have to look that up in a few minutes....

JP84Z430HP

Looks like the Delteq system uses a N* module and coils, with their interface box converting the Opti's signal to trigger it. Hmmmm....

89 Iroc Z

JP84Z430HP,
Here's a link the LS1 24x trigger wheel pic and part number: http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/gmgoodwr...on=ep#12559353

89 Iroc Z

and here's a pic

JP84Z430HP

Well, that's considerably different than the northstar trigger wheel. It would not fire the N* module because the N* module is looking for the teeth to be in a specific shape and spacing, which is not the same as that LS1 wheel.

I just looked at it again, and it is way different. Still not out of the question, but not the hot thing I was hoping for....

89 Iroc Z

Okay I see from the pics below how the n* wheel is different. Do you plan to use the n* with one crank sensor instead of the stock 2?

89 Iroc Z

I found this info here: http://www.autoed.com/resources/samp...javec_ch21.pdf


...and here is another pic

89 Iroc Z

Why is it that none of the aftermarket coil conversions I posted above need crank sensors they work off the stock opti signal. That means it may be possible to run a Northstar or LS1 coils off the stock HEI distributor with a conversion box and without running a crank sensor.

JP84Z430HP

That's the idea I get, I just don't know how to build the electronics to translate the signal into what the N* module needs. The only thing is that with a lower resolution signal such as in a standard distributor, it would probably take longer for the thing to start firing to find out which coil #1 is on.

When I first started looking into this, I thought about only using 1 sensor, but I figured out that since it all has to be fabricated anyway, it wouldn't take much more to add in the second sensor. Still not sure on it all though.

89 Iroc Z

I did some more research on the Opti-Spark DIS setup. The Opti-Spark distributor uses optical sensors, that why it is called “Opti”. The optical sensor tells the ECM exactly what cylinder is firing which is used for the LT1 SFI setup. So in order to use DIS on a GEN-I SBC with HEI you have to add a crank sensor or possibly use a aftermarket cam sensor instead of just the output of the HEI.

EDIT:
Another possibility is to find a broken Opti-Spark distributor for cheap and take out the optical wheel and sensor and gut a HEI distributor and some how mount the wheel. You would still need a conversion box for the electronics though.

Here's a pic of the Opti's wheel: