YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Durn.

oldred95

Does the LS1 capable of pulse width modulation on any of the outputs (other then the TCC circuit) for say electric fan use? I find that running two fans in series uses half the current and you keep the same flow or there about as running one fan in parallel. It would be nice to be able to vary the voltage as needed to add or subtract air flow rather then turning both fans on in parallel and sucking a steady 20+ amps out of the charging system. I believe the newer GM trucks and SUV's operate in this manor.

Apparently I'm a bigger buzz kill then Buzz Killington.

S10Wildside

UPDATE
Last night we swapped the harness connectors around so that knock sensor 1 wire connected to knock sensor bank 2 and knock sensor 2 wire connected to knock sensor bank 1. The result (after a good flogging on the street) was a Knock Sensor 2 Low Frequency DTC.

Conclusions:
- perhaps the knock sensor on the driver side of the block is bad
- maybe there is something going on with the frequency generated on that side of the block

Next Steps:
- replace the sensor (lose a lot of coolant - ugh!)
- consider trying only one knock sensor (change calibration to expect only one sensor - just like all previous engines including the 01-02 Express Van calibration)

Questions that will never be answered:
- why did GM begin using two knock sensors with LS engines?
- do the LS type knock sensors operate in the same range as the 01-02 Express Van knock sensors (not really sure how to thoroughly test this)

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I know of someone that mods TBI PCMs to run in MPFI Batch fire mode and they control the 4L80E and 4L60E.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I am willing to bet GM went to the dual knock sensor arrangement to help fight detonation with the increasing compression ratio and dynamic compression ratio. By having a nice PAIR of knock sensors, the PCM can better sense what is going on in the engine. What this means for the OEM is they can calibrate the tuning more aggressive than otherwise possible. The knock sensors also only pull timing on the cylinders that are creating the knock rather than the whole engine. This keeps fuel economy fractionally higher and gives more power.

I am more familar with the newer dodge stuff, since I work in the service department of a dodge, chrysler, jeep dealer and here is what I know on their setup and the change to dual knock sensors.

DCx did the same thing with their 4.7 engine in 2002. From 1999-2002 they ran a single sensor up top under the intake in the valley area(SOHC engine). In 2002 DCx introduced a 4.7 HO version in the Jeeps. The engineers increased the compression ratio and cams duration. At the same time they tuned the spark advance/fuel settings more aggressively. The engineers were able to get another 40 HP, 35 ft/lbs of torque, push the hp peak 400 rpm higher, not lose any torque at any rpm, and keep the same/slight increase in fuel economy out of the same displacement. The engineers used dual "stereo" knock sensors. The stereo knock sensors were used in the HO 4.7 only from 2002-2004. The engineers realized the real world benifits of this change and introduced the "stereo" knock sensors across the 3.7/4.7 board for the 2005 model year. For the 05 model year the 4.7 gained 5 ft/lbs of torque at peak. Both engines are able to advance/retard timing based on the knock sensor on a cylinder to cylinder bases. If #3 injector is not flowing as much and the cylinder is lean, creating detonation, it reduces timing in #3 only, not the whole engine or the whole bank.

388

This is great news !

Long story short I have a 93 vette which I build a 388 solid roller to spin 8000 rpms. I ended up tossing the entire harness and went with a custom harness with a gen 7 DFI and dual sync dizzy (LT4 manifold was done by LT1 intake back in 02). Ever since the beggining I have desired a coil on plug setup and a different cam / crank signal. I'll definitely be subscribing !!

Fast forward to today. Am building a whole new motor which is a 370 ci LT4 headed stroker. solid roller of course and we're looking again to make peak power around 7500 rpm. The cam is a custom one off LS1 firing order LTx core billet solid roller. I want to eliminate the dual sync and/or run coil on plug for better ignition at higher rpms. CUrrently I have a msd-6al and blaster coil :/ I was originally planning to run the dual sync for a cam signal and a universal crank trigger bolted behind the ati damper for crank but was told there are better ways. I was linked to someone who makes a reluctor wheel that will fit under a 96 LTX timing cover. I never looked into it yet or contacted them (have to dig it up) since I am waiting 7 months on the cam and that already pushes me to the summer of 09. I am not sure but maybe it was you I don't know !!

So the current update is that I have picked up a 96 cover and crank trigger sensor from the y body. If you are designing something that will provide a means to get rid of the dizzy (buzz saw lol) I am definitely interested !! COil on plug is just icing on the cake ! If you don't mind me asking How exactly will the coil/plug setup work? DOes it require a separate controller? My first plan to use a universal crank trigger etc was to also use the accel coil/plug box. I'm not sure if its a similar thing or is that box really unnecessary?

I'll be following this one great work and much appreciation for sharing.

S10Wildside

It will require the LS1 PCM. Please see the first post in this thread.

S10Wildside

We picked up the reluctor today. The final piece will be cleaner than this one (no welds), but you get the idea.



It will even clear a double roller timing chain.



Next Steps
Next week this will be tested with the LT1. If testing goes well, we will begin looking for people who are ready and willing to try this on the non-LT1 engines. The LT1 cam sensor housing pieces are not yet ready and we don't expect them to be ready for a few more months.

Price and Availability for the 24x Reluctor
We expect to know by the end of next week.

LT1 Owners
This isn't really the place to mention 4th gen cars, but for those with 4th gen f-body cars, EFI Connection will be offering a plug and play fuel injection harness that replaces the original LT1 harness.

388

Totally understood. I think I realized after I posted that the ls1 ecm is already designed to run coil/plug anyways.

For my application this will be a big help. If you don't mind me asking how do you get a cam 'and' crank signal from the one wheel? is a special sensor required?

S10Wildside

The cam signal comes from a target on the cam. The crank signal comes from a reluctor on the crank. Both are "within" the timing cover. I haven't said much about the cam sensor pieces. I will when it's ready.

Ricco

So if the cam signal is now coming from within the timing cover, what is going to go in the distributor hole? doesnt something need to go in to drive the oil pump?

Cheers,
Richard.

S10Wildside

The LT1 has an oil pump drive under the intake manifold. There is no distributor hole.

Ricco

Sorry i thought you were meaning the GenI sbc... So the small block will still need a distributor for the cam signal?

Hog

yes, GEn 1 apps will still need a 1x CMP sensor from a Vortec distributer.

peace
Hog

388

I have no problem waiting ! I don't mean to pry for information just curious as to what pieces I will need to make this work for both signals. The 96 timing cover I have has a crank position sensor plug, I am guessing that will be used to get the crank signal. I am wondering how the cam signal will be picked up.
I am not sure about what kind of singals the dfi can interpret but I am hoping it can recognize both that you are making. This way I can remove the dinosaur dizzy and keep the look clean and still run sequential. Not only that I can remove the MSD box and run Accels new COil/plug box that will allow me to go coil/plug with the gen7 dfi. I hope I'm not in dream land here !!

S10Wildside

To prepare, all you need is the 96-97 LT1 timing cover. EFI Connection will make available:
- crank sensor (unique to 24x ring)
- cam sensor (unique to our cam sensor housing)
- cam sensor housing pieces

I'm not familiar with Accel's system. Probably won't put any time into it for awhile. If it's compatible with the LS1's 24x crank and 1x cam, then you're good to go.

388

Amazing ! I will look into it with accel.

S10Wildside

Pricing for the 24x rings and related pieces is now available at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn..._cylinder.aspx

We have a very small quantity of the GM distributor caps. They will only be sold to those who are purchasing a 24x ring, 24x sensor, and are currently ready to do this conversion. If you are not ready to do this conversion, I'm going to ask that you wait for us to make new (non-GM) caps. We are currently working on this.

388

Just wondering if the crank reluctor would not work on an LTx double roller because of the LTX specific timng sets required ie. LT4 extreme duty set etc. Wondering because I have long since been using an electric water pump and the options for timing sets are many more than those using the std pump because of the gears on the crank sprocket for the water pump.

S10Wildside

It won't work because:

crank sprocket + crank reluctor + timing cover = not enough clearance

Regardless of the timing set, the depth of the crank sprocket won't change. If the depth did change, then the hub would also have to change or the crank pulley would be out of alignment.

KENS80V

iTrader: (1)

Do we need to buy a standard Vortec crank sensor when using the plastic Vortec timing cover with your newly released reluctor ring or do we need to purchase your crank sensor.? Your web site shows a different looking crank sensor then the standard Vortec style. Also will a double roller timing chain fit under the plastic Vortec timing cover? Lastly will the plastic Vortec timing cover work wih the shorter style water pumps as used on our Corvettes. I'll ask these questions on the "Corvette Forum" as well to get more input as these plastic timing covers are used on the ZZ4 crate motors.

Here is a couple of pictures of the setup I'm building to use with this conversion. The second picture shows the coil packs mounted to the back of the intake for a cleaner valve cover look.

S10Wildside

You must use the 24x crank sensor. The 4x crank sensor will not send the correct signal to the PCM.

It should, but I can not speak from experience. This would be a great question for the ZZ4 guys. The chain will definitely clear our 24x reluctor (double roller version).

Yes, but with modifications. I do recall a friend who installed a Vortec timing cover on his engine with aluminum short water pump. He took away some material on the pump and a little material on the head of one of the timing cover bolts.

Absolutely fantastic! The LS2 throttle body is a great choice. If you need any harness help, please let me know. The LS2 throttle body will work with the LS1 Corvette TAC module.

KENS80V

iTrader: (1)

I'll be using your custom made harness shortly and newly made reluctor ring. Which 24x crank sensor will fit the Vortec cover?. Can I just buy one from a 2002 Corvette?

I asked the guys on the "Corvette Forum" for more info about the Vortec cover as it's used on the ZZ4, FastBurn383 and ZZ383 crate engines. Looks like it will fit behind a short style water pump with a bit of massaging but no one has replied if a double roller chain will fit inside.

S10Wildside

The sensor is unique to this 24x reluctor. The LS1 crank sensor will not fit the Vortec timing cover.

We have the sensor available here: http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn..._cylinder.aspx



And for the harnesses that currently have the connector for the 4x Vortec sensor, we have an adapter to work with the 24x sensor.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

My experience with ZZ4s has been they have a single roller chain, just like the HD Truck version of the TBI and Vortec 350 engines.

BS3-434

Hi guys

I found this thread doing a Google search and it looks like you guys can help me with
my setup.

I don’t won’t to butt in with a bunch of info about my setup without asking you guys
if it’s ok to add to the thread.

90-irocdx3

iTrader: (4)

this ls1 pcm setup is awesome, how much longer do you think it will be when you come out with a kit and how much?

S10Wildside

If it's question about getting your engine equipped with these pieces and planning the conversion, please email me at mike@eficonnection.com.

S10Wildside

Availability: possibly before the end of the year

Kit Pricing: We're still trying to define what should be in a kit. Even if we come up with several kits, many are going to want to add/remove a few items to suit their application and parts they already have. Current prices are at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn..._cylinder.aspx.

BS3-434

Well my setup is very similar, It is a pre Vortec 1st gen small block that will
take it’s commands via Big Stuff-3 for the ls1.

The distributor that you guys are using from the C.O.P. BBC is the same one that I’m
using.

The reluctor ring that I was told to use is a evenly spaced 24 tooth .
But the stock LS1 ring looks like the one you guys are putting under the timing
cover but it is a single ring and GM uses 2 rings and the ring you guys and GM use have a staggered odd looking tooth setup why?

I will also need a little help with the phasing of the cam and crank pickups.

S10Wildside

I'm not sure that the "why's?" are important if our final product is promised to work with the LS1 type PCMs.

I'm not familiar with the Big Stuff equipment. If it's designed for a gen 3 LS engine, then it will work with the components we are soon going to release.

I've been working on an installation guide that will show how to properly install the distributor. The crank signal is fixed, so the cam signal (distributor) installation is the only adjustable part of the system.

If all goes as expected, the LT1 guys will have it easy; no adjustment necessary. More details after we finish the cam sensor design.

BS3-434

Your setup is for the Vortec time cover right?
If so what do the older sbc guys do?

S10Wildside

Install the Vortec timing cover.

We've put Vortec timing covers on at least 10 pre-Vortec engines. It's a direct bolt on. It does, however, require a generous amount of silicone on the sides to properly seal. The pre-Vortec blocks are ever so slightly different where the cover seals on the face of the block.

BS3-434

So why did GM use 2 rings?

Hog

2 rings on what? Describe what you are asking please?

peace
Hog

BS3-434

Relustor rings on the crank, GM uses 2 of them on the LS1.

afgun

Perhaps you're referring to this... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20...s/12559353.jpg where it's 2 discs sandwiched together? That's just for the type of sensor that GM used. It generates a square wave the same as the reluctor and sensor that eficonnection has put together.

BS3-434

I bought a LS1 crank sensor and I plan on using it.
My motor will have a Comp Cams 2 piece timing cover
and the cam will have a button so I don’t think the GM plastic cover will work for me.

I found the answer last night for the 2 rings but the phasing of the ring is something that I’m still looking for.

I may just buy a stock LS1 ring from GM and mount it to the balancer, It’s only about $20.00.

afgun

Ouch. http://www.goodson.com/store/templat...l.php?IID=4147 $186.

gassr

Did I miss something? GM had dual sensors on LT1s since '94.

S10Wildside

Not true. All LT1 engines have only one knock sensor.

gixxer92

The OBD1 - ODBII change happened in mid 94 didn't it? I think so, isn't that why some would have two and some have one.
My 94 is a single but if I remember right my buddies was produced later in the year and had OBD1 connector and a OBDII ECU.

gassr

Morning Mike. How ya doin'?
No one's perfect, but unlike what is common, I won't pass off something as fact that is not. IOW, if it were my opinion or a guess, I'd note that. I have three in the driveway (big driveway ), two '95s and one '94 that verify otherwise. The F-body had one, that is true. The '94 and up B-body (and Caddy FW) LT1s had dual sensors. Difficult to determine why the GM inconsistency. Take care, Mike.

Gary

P.S. I look forward to doing business with you. After phone conversation, you strike me as a heady and class person.

gassr

No, nothing to do with it.

BTW, OBDII was '96. You'll find some (late) '95 OBDI F-bodies with an OBDII ALDL connector. Again, nothing to do with the KS however.

S10Wildside

Good call. I was clearly narrow minded on that one. I had f-body on the mind (and a few f-body harnesses in the shop to look at). Been digging heavily into the f-body harness variations recenly for the 24x LT1 harness development. While not a good excuse, when you're living and breathing f-body harnesses, it's easy to forget about the other LT1s. Sorry about being so definitive (and incorrect) on that.

To add to that...the 01-02 Express Van (OBDII) has only one knock sensor. OBDII doesn't necessarily mean two knock sensors.

afgun

Best place to look for uber-cheap 0411 and harness? I'm planning on experimenting with one on a northstar. Might be interested in buying one of your reluctors, too. Time will tell. Thanks!

KENS80V

iTrader: (1)

Can anyone shed some light on which 4L60E core would be the best to buy/easy to find to work with our Gen 1 engines. From what I understand the LS1/LS2 version will not bolt up to the back of the engine without a adapter plate. Also I was told to stay away from 4 wheel drive versions as the output shaft is the wrong length and the rear housings are different/not used due to the transfer case.

I also understand that it's important to use a torque convertor for a LS1 engine because of the fact the LS1 ECM is in use. Will it mount up correctly to a GEN 1 flex plate? My engine is a 383 (external balanced) two piece rear main seal style crank, any problems with using this matching weighted flex plate with a LS1 torque convertor? Apparently if you want to use a Turbo 350 or Turbo 400 behind a LS1 engine a spacer must be used.

Can anyone help me with these questions?

Hog

This question really shouldnt be in this thread but, here you go.
If you want to install a GEn 3/4 engine in a GEN 1/2 engined vehicle you can use the existing 4l60e/60/700r4 by using this flexplate spacer
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/LS1-Flexplate-Spacer-12563532-P1343C0.aspx

and 6 of these longer bolts
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/LS1-Flexplate-Spacer-Bolt-12563533-P1344C0.aspx

EDIT With this flexplate from a GEn 3/4 engined car/truck that used a 4l80e trans
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/LS1-Flexplate-12551367-P1342C0.aspx


if you want to keep your 305 or 350 but have a more modern 4l60e/65e/70e that was behind a 4.8,5.3,6.0 or 6.2L engine then you need this kit.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Transmission-Adapter-Kit-19154766-P1812C43.aspx


This flexplate adapter from HUGHES will allow you to use an older 4l60e behind a GEN 3/4 engine as well.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/performance_parts/index.html?item=1091

peace
Hog

KENS80V

iTrader: (1)

This question is directly related to using a LS1 PCM in a Gen1 engine. Finding the correct transmission to use is important and Mike touched on this subject on page 2.
I'm well aware of the adapter plate needed for the late style 4L60E transmissions. The question was about the best choice in 4L60E transmissions that don't need any adapters and are easy to locate.

scuzz

I've used one out of 98 pickup, and one out of 2003 4.3 Express Van. They bolt right up.
All the S10 stuff would be same.
Probably any pickup with 4.3, 5.0. and 5.7, except LSX stuff.