Since you asked...

You’ll note I actually didn’t jump in until the classic demonstration of hypocrisy from Pablo. I like this board, and I don’t see why valuable people have to defend themselves against personal insults. The last time I was offended after seeing a personal attack on a board member, I reported it to the Moderator, and yet this excrescence above is allowed to continue, so I thought it appropriate to respond.

You say Grumpy’s posts are “CLEARLY just posts to distract the conversation.” Rather, it appears that me that Grumpy has been posting useful stuff for years and it irritates the crap out of him seeing someone with an 11 second car which has a lousy idle, poor starting, unpredictable behaviour, yada yada, appears to present himself as a reliable authority on how to tune Delco’s and posts stuff which is confusing and misleading (which by its very nature tends to paint Grumpy’s advice as misleading). But that’s only how it appears to me. Maybe it’s not Grumpy’s right and role to respond like this, but for the sake of us newbies, someone has to do it. As it is, if the Moderators can’t even stop people from being disgustingly personally insulting on this board, let alone posting crap, then it’s useful for Bruce to intervene as he does. When someone does it in a nicer fashion, I’ll be happy to join the chorus advising him to “eat less red meat and more fibre.”

I especially like that you’ve included me with “a few others that are making all the disruptions”. Thanks. Have a look at who the “few others” (apologies to the worthies I leave out, I couldn’t be bothered scrolling through the crowd)- Rbob, Ed, Saturn5, even funstick have multi-posted (disrupted?) with everything from advice to smiles and dots. People here know what is wrong with your car, it’s sticking out like the proverbials, and you don’t get it. Because you’ve presented yourself as an expert and keep bagging this board, you’re not getting helped.

And your comments about me are also appreciated. Now you’ve put me in the same category as Grumpy who you said something like “added nothing to the knowledge on this board.” You aren’t qualified to judge my level of knowledge about these ECM’s- so unfortunately what you said about me isn’t defamatory J Hectorsn showed this in the quoted post above.

You have presented yourself as having a level of knowledge beyond your real capacity- this is hubris (“if you can’t go as fast as me, don’t give me advice), and you have resorted to personal insult when you couldn’t rationally debate the point. In this post, you have bagged just about every expert on this board.

My prediction is that until you retract your insults you’ll just get the same treatment every time.


John
PS Please note that I haven’t been personally insulting to you. I’ve just said I find your insulting of Grumpy offensive and disgusting, and that you have posted crap. The crap references are clear above. If I have posted crap, you’ve been free to respond to it and you haven’t. The other stuff is just my opinion. You asked why I’ve posted and I’ve told you why.

 

For the record:

Why has this post been left open for so long?
It's a post for people to air their differences. It's a post for people to try to work stuff out. It is being left open for as long as possible for people to try to work their stuff out. No post like this has ever been left open for so long. This is the first time ... and it's becoming clear that people are not working their differences out. Also, I am disgusted by Pablo's comments. We considered deleting and/or Editing Pablo's response but this post needs to remain in its entirety so that if/when Pablo is banned we have the proof to back it up. That was the problem with kvu. We edited and deleted all his vulgar stuff and then when he jumped in and asked Why he was banned we had nothing left to show. But, we deleted and edited his vulgarity. So, we are leaving some stuff there as proof of how hurtful a particular person is.

Tim

 

Well I only hope there is a better way to handle the banning or removing of the material Pablo posted. Every time I glance over this thread I get sick to my stomach knowing that his disgusting language still exists in a forum that WOULD NOT EXIST as we know it without Grumpy and the other senior members that provide the rich content for the rest of us to learn from. Any decent person can see through the crap that is flying and identify those who are a benefit to the forum and the members who come for their advice. The self serving glory hounds have nothing but themselves in mind and don't appear to be at all concerned with the vitality of the community that Grumpy and others continually without question give selflessly to.

Thanks Grumpy and gang, if it wasn't for you guys the TGO community would be nowhere near as privileged as it is to have such an exemplary resource of knowledge!!!

 

From Thirdgen.org:
What Are Moderators?
Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other manipulations. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.

From a quick Goodle search:
Definition
At a forum, someone entrusted by the administrator to help discussions stay productive and within the guidelines.

Information
Good moderators are essential for good forums; great moderators are essential for great forums... and the absence of moderators typically leads to ghost towns inhabited only by spam bots.

Basic moderator duties include deleting or modifying inappropriate posts, educating newcomers about forum guidelines, and possibly deleting accounts of repeat offenders. Additionally, moderators may be experts in their field who can help minimize unanswered questions.

Most moderator openings are volunteer positions, although there may be substantial indirect rewards. These highly visible positions can lead to enhanced status within a community. This can even translate into business leads, as potential clients have an opportunity to get familiar with the moderator.

So. . .

Why has it been left open? The same reason the other post was unlocked, I'd assume. Can't decide which side of the debate you're on or can't provide data to answer the question (pulse width changing with fuel pressure only change.)

I see no reason to leave such offensive remarks for the rest of the forum readers to see! Should have been edited or deleted at first sight from a moderator.

. . . and that's coming from someone who Grumpy will NEVER get a chance to be RUDE to AGAIN! But, although I have the messages, they were in private e-mail and not to be discussed here, EVER!

So, what's the lame excuse for not getting rid of those offensive remarks again! Who would even have the authority to question your judgement. We're not taking a poll here, but we could. Tech content has been void in these personal quarrels for some time but. . . I suppose people like to read them. I do, everyday, and find myself feeling disgusted with myself for doing it. What a waste . . .

 

I don't see the point in this being the forum to air differences,
I though this board was about PROM BURNING.

I thought this board was not about seeing how far one could go in name calling.

I thought this board was not about having an audience to trash this board.

I thought that this board was about asking questions, and explaining the inner working of PROMS, not for bragging about how one's car is better, then anothers.

I thought this board was about getting accurate information. and not confusing opinion with facts.

I thought this board was not saying read the archives.

I thought this board was about pioneering the knowledge of PROM burning.

I thought it was to be expected that as the years passed views and undertanding the PROM would evolve.

I thought that reading things into what someone was saying was for those that just didn't have anything better to do with their time.

I thought trolling was better left for other boards.

I thought that the User's Agreement, meant that it was to be followed, or you would be denied the PRIVELEDGE of posting here.

I thought everyone was to get some measure of respect.

I thought folks that were corrected would be glad to get the correct info..

I thought that day in and day out answering all the questions was about what was being a good member meant.

I thought reasonable adult behavior was part of the learning process.

I thought the material is what was important not worring about how one COULD be interpurted was important.

I thought that part of the purpose to list was to assist others in doing their best.

I thought politically correct was for the politicians, not trying to explain how EFI works.

That's what I thought.

 

Again ...

This is one post. One. ONE POST! It's not like this whole board runs the exact same way as this one post. It is only this post that is being used in this manner. This is ONE POST!

I'm not making that point. This is one post! This is not a forum to air differences.

It is.

It's not. This is one post in an attempt to trust the board members to be responsible adults and air their differences and work through them. Again - this is one post.

If somebody wants to trash this board then let them. It's free speach. People can talk about this board in a negative manner all they want. I am totally OK with that. Heck - maybe us moderators will learn something from people's comments about this board. I'm a listener ... not a 'crush your thoughts' individual.

This forum is on thirdgen.org. TGO is about cars ... and making them fast. If someone wants to brag about how fast their car is ... WHILE DISCUSSING EPROM PROGRAMMING ... that that is cool with me. This site is about speed. It's about being fast. This site is not just about PROM programming. There are 39 forums on this site. The PROM forum is only 1 out of the 39.

I thought this board was about that too.

This board is obviously about saying read the archives. People have to make an effort and not get everything handed to them. That's the only way to truly learn. For everything that you research you'll learn several other points along the way. You've said to read the archives on more occasions than I can remember. I have too.

It is.

It does. If I look back on the past 2 years of this board (or longer), it has evolved. So have the members. Again - this is one post of the close to 34,000 posts on this forum. It is obviously not a summary example of how this board works. There are 34,000 other posts that show the real story.

Exactly. I guess that explains why I have been accused by *somebody* to be a liar, two-faced, and a hate mongerer ... simply due to this one post being left unlocked and simply due to using the term 'pissing contest'.

Trolling is a fact of all 39 boards on this site.

If the user agreement was to be followed point for point on every single item then you would be banned too. It's left to the moderators to decide how they want to use it. Again - this is one post. There are 34,000 other posts.

Everyone *should* get some measure. Unfortunately, there are some very negative people in the world that like call names. In those cases we are preserving at least one of their posts so that when they are banned there is just cause and proof. Definitely will not be dragged into another kvu situation where we edited and deleted all his vulgarity to later find him asking where is the bad stuff he said. Then other newer members believed him because they saw no reason for him to be banned.

Human is human is human. Some people I am positive ARE glad. Others probably get negative due to the type of answer they receive. Others argue and challenge that answer because they want to know how you arrived at it.

It is. You can also be a good member by NOT posting and learning and studying and lurking in the background sucking up as much information as possible.

Reasonable adult behavior is not just about the learning process but also is expected. Again - this is one post for the reasons already stated.

If you don't worry about how you are interpreted then how can you be a good teacher? EVERY good teacher challenges themself to discover a better way to communicate so that the student understands. The best teachers in my life ... from grade school to graduate school (yes, I am highly educated) were very very good at communicating. If it was evident to them that the student did not understand then they would endeavor to find a manner to deliver the example in a way that would be understood.

It is.

Politically Correct can be positive and negative. I don't think any members here NEED to be politically correct. However, my role is such a role ... even if it may not jive with my personal beliefs.

Ok.

I am officially done with this post. I will not answer to anymore accusations or respond to anymore attacks on how this board is run or how it is moderated. This is one post where the moderators have left it open in a trust to allow members to try to work out their differences. It's one post and it is not an example of how this board is run on a daily basis. ONE POST!

Tim