Ok so I jumped in feet first. Built my motor with plans for a TPI system. Put too big of a cam in (GM pt# 12370847, with 1.6 proform full roller rockers. .574/.595 lift 234*/242* duration on a 112* lobe sep.), but figured I'll be fine. Now my problem is I've gotten all my programming stuff including the AMTEL AT29C256 EEPROMS. My only problem is I have no clue where to start. My car runs better in limp home mode than in any other. I can't get the car to run by raising the idle even. It starts and dies. No runs for a minute just dies. The stock AUJP .bin file runs better than me turning up the idle. Everything I try backfires in my face. I'm half a step away from tossing it out the window and paying $650 for TPIS to make me a chip, I'm that fed up. It wouldn't be so bad if I could understand half of what was said in other threads, but I consider myself a pretty smart guy and I'M LOST!!! Not only is it making me upset, it makes my fiance upset becuse she hates it when the car doesn't run. It also doesn't help that I have zero access to a scanner because my 91 T/A engine harness doesn't mate with my 90 RS dash harness. I have no speedometer as well as no communication with the computer. Sorry for the rant but I lost my job today on top of not being able to program a workable chip. Any info you guys could shoot me would help.

BTW I've looked at all the acronyms, that's not the issue it's more the writing with what looks like code. I hate to admit it but I can build a motor, put a carb on it, and run. This computer stuff just kicks my a$$. Please help this poor LOST SOUL!!!!

 

Go to WWW>DIY-EFI.ORG, and go to the FTP.
There you'll see Tuning Tips, grab that.
Without a scan tool, it will take longer, and take alot more gas, but it can be done.

 

Maybe you could do it w/o a scanner, but how many newbie's could?

I built myself a simple cable for peanuts, and I use Winaldl. You won't know what you're doing without some feedback on BLMs etc.

But it looks like you're not even getting a burn to work so that you're in LH mode. What programmer are you using, and have you done a comparison of your burned chip with the source BIN?

John

 

So - let me get this straight - you have a 234 camshaft in a motor with a stock TPI on it? Are you serious? If so - do yourself a HUGE favor ... .. pull the cam out and put in one that will make your motor faster instead of slower. Running a 234 cam in a TPI motor is absolutely rediculous. To put this in perspective, I am running a 230 cam on a MiniRam with ported AFR190 heads and it is borderline too big.

I don't mean to be a downer with my comments. However, that camshaft is a complete absolute mismatch for your motor. That cam won't even peak in terms of horsepower until after your TPI reaches its flow limit. The cam is way too big for your setup. The LEAST of your worries is tuning. Even if your setup was tuned it would still be extremely sluggish down low and not have the intake flow needed when running a cam that big.

If you don't want to listen to these comments then start with the 'P730: Part Throttle Fuel Tuning (no PE)' sticky post near the top of this forum. Make sure to change the injector constant, the cylinder size, target idle tables, and set your throttle blades to work with your target idle. That should get the motor running so that you can attack some of the other issues that you'll run into with that cam. However, be smart, get rid of that cam and install one that will work with the TPI. You have the classic TOTAL mismatch.

Tim

 

I don't mean to be rude but this will probably come across that way. Plus, I attempting humor, which I'm poor at, in writing.

You should have jumped in HEAD first so you could SEE what Traxion is telling you above. You've been here since March of 2002 with 160+ posts. WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN READING?

Now, for some solutions to your problems and your girlfriend will thank us;

1)Take that cam out, put it one that's compatible with your TPI setup.

2) Get the wiring harness FINISHED. It's a hack and will never allow you to get your car running correctly.

3) Pay attention to these threads on engines comparable to yours and take the advise of those who are *most often* correct.

4) Tell your fiance that you will ALWAYS be the way you are. Nobody does all the work you've done and "grows" out of it. If it's not a thirdgen it'll be something else you're tinkering with.

5)Fix something of her's to prove all this tinkering in your blood will pay off someday.

6) Get a job.


Since you got that car from where you started to where it's at all is not lost. It just need some follow through. I've done it, am doing it, and will do it again. Or is that, I didn't do it and I promise not to do it again.

 

First I know the cam's too big. When I bought it I was planning on modding a LT1 to fit. Infact I had the manifold, rails, and TB. I was ready to send it to millican when I ran into a guy that has done it. It's on his car currently and there's a lot of time and money into it to get it to work right. Unfortunately I don't have that time or money. As it is I hardly have time to look at a wiring diagram to figure out my harness. And believe me if I had the money I would buy a different cam but seeing as just about all of them got for around $200, it's something I can't justify takeing the money from my 3 yr. old. My fiance' knows I'm a car guy. I tinker, break and rebuild all the time. Since Nov. I've blown up 2 tranny's to the tune of about $1500 just for parts. Even the one I have now slips like a pig on the 1-2 shift. The guy who built it wants me to give it to him so he can look over it but it's my daily driver.

With that said I'm using PP2 and WinBin. I can get the chip to burn, but even then it's nowhere near correct enough even to get the car to idle. I got the AUJP.bin off of the GMECM list. If that's not correct then I follied. I bumped up the idle numerous times even to the point where i was 500RPM above stock. It still didn't help. I have a feeling it's in the fuel tables but I have no idea where to start moving things. I don't know what my injectors flow other than 24lb/hr. They're stock LT1 out of a 94 Z. I'm not good with conversions so I have no idea how many g/sec that is. And unfortunately as I said before there's no communication with the computer and my DLC connector. I was thinking I'll just cut the wires after the I/P connector and wire it up on the passenger side but I fear I may do more harm than good.

BTW....I'm running in Limp Mode because I removed my chip from the Moates ZIF socket, and just run it with out the chip. Surprisingly it runs pretty well.

Going off of what I just said I'm guessing I have to richen my fuel curve and get the timing to go with it. Am I correct or am I still lost.

I appreciate you guys helping, after yesterday I was ready to scrap the car an buy a CIVIC!!! At least you saved me from the bigger mistake.

Chris

 

You may want to consider buying that civic.

You are still lost. You don't want to richen the mixture. That cam is considerably LESS volumetrically efficient (VE) than the stock cam at lower RPMs. That means it's not good at pulling air in ... so, you need less fuel at lower RPMs. You would know that if you had your scanner hooked up and you saw that you had 108 BLMs. You are currently flooding your engine with fuel at idle and washing the cylinder walls. You are seriously decreasing the life expectancy of your engine.

Your car will need an idle of 1000rpms .... maybe even 1100. I have my car with the 230 cam idling at 900. So, 500 over stock probably isn't even enough. Furthermore, look at this post and see what I said here about setting the idle via the Throttle Body first ...
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=185994

I'm surprised you can even stop your car. Your brakes should hardly be functioning with the amount of vacuum that cam pulls.

You're not going to be able to tune your car unless you can scan it. Get the scanner worked out.

Be forewarned that even when you get your car tuned it is going to run slow. That cam is a terrible choice for a TPI setup.

Tim

 

I've got a vac. can hooked up and it helped.....a little. I can get it to pull anywhere from 11-14" Hg at idle. granted that was with the carb on it. It also got better than 14 mpg with my Edelbrock 600 (granted it's kinda small). I was actually talking to my buddy tonite and I've decided t get a set of stock Iron 350 heads hogged outand put some 2.02/1.60 valves in it. Those and a HSR should get me to the point where the cam won't hinder. I know tunning will be a pain but I'd rather get the top-end breathability. I'd still like to get this thing kinda ok for now. If my BLM's are around 108, what should they be? I never had a stock motor with this TPI stuff. I'm to the point I just want to be able to drive this thing.

BTW: what does 24 lb/hr convert to in grams/sec? And how do I adjust for my low levels of vac.??? If I could get a few "plain english" answers I'll be muc appreciated and owe you guys one.

Chris

 

heres a few ideas from tuning my lt4hotcam equipped formie its only 218/228 duration but your gonna end up rebuilding your engine with what u have going on right now............

#1
Take the idle area in the spark table, from say 0kpa to 80 kpa from the lowest rpm up to the rpm you wish your desired isle to be at and try roughly 24-28degrees of timing.........this should help smoothen out your idle(with your cam smooth is a relative term)

#2
If your running 24# inj, as long as they are not ford svo(they rate at diff psi roughly equiv to 25.5-26.5 GM) set your Injector constant to 24.1

#3
Take your VE tables(fuel) at the say roughly(best guess) 2400rpm and down range and pull out 20% or so of the fuel and see what happnes to your blm's...if they raise and not quite get to 128 in those areas u removed fuel from take out some more and see how much u will need to pull out.......but from your cam and what i have found on my own, at the lower rpm lower kpa areas your gonna end up taking out tons of fuel and even more so at your desired idle settings

#4
Make sure your case timing setting in your chip is what u actually have the base timing set to on your engine

#5
u need a scan tool, specially if your new so u can figure out whats going on and how things relate

#6
If you have things not working which can effect ecm controls(ie. the VSS) get those working properly, your life will be much easier and your car happier

#7
Keep us updated on what u are tuning and read , read , read and search , search , search and if u cant find it then ask the questions, lots of knowledge here just try to ask educated questions and replies will be forthcoming

Good luck
Jeremy

 

I tried my 305 memcal I had laying around and it works a lot better than the AUJP.bin. I'm wondering if anyone happens to have a copy of the AWFU.bin since I checked the gmecm library and it wasn't there. I unfortunately I don't have a way of coping the one I have so I was wondering if you guys could help. I figured I may be able to start from there and add fuel little by little until I get it close. Is this a better idea then trying to back off the AUJP.bin?? Anyway if you guys happen to have it on file please send it my way as I'd like to play with it anyway.

Chris

 

If your running tpi use the aujp bin, i bet 95+% of people here are running it if they are using tpi, or thats the bin they started with....

that 305 bin if its stock is making yoru car un pig richer than it already is, its sized for 19# inj

Later
Jeremy

take a look at davis' homepage diy-efi i know aujp is floating around out there

 

I already have the aujp.bin. I tried running that but it runs worse than the 305 bin. I have two memcals. one is the AUJP bin and the other is AWFU. Those are the exact letters read off of the memcal. I'm lookin' for that one because at least my car runs on the AWFU. The AUJP won't even let my car idle. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Chris

 

U say ui have all the prom burnng equipment, follow the steps i outlined up top(using aujp as a base) and give it a try then and see what happens it wont be correct obvioulsy but should get you a half @$$ed ballpark range and get your blm's off 108......

No stock chip is going to run your car worth a darn, period, it just aint happening...........and if it does "run" it will be washing down your cyl walls with fuel

LAter
Jeremy

 

I guess I'll play around with it a little tom. since I don't have a job and all I really HAVE to do is file for un-employment. Thanks for the advice. I really do appreciate it.

Chris

 

All right here's a litttle update for you guys keeping track. 3.8 T/A I owe you big time. I brought my lower VE table WAY down. Added some spark all around, and upped the idle to 1100. I even pulled some out of the upper VE table as I was getting some major black smoke when I stepped on it. Now I only have a little puff of smoke, but not much so I know I'm still rich. As for adjusting the throttle blades, I did it but the blades are opened about as far as it'll go. Anyway I got the 52 mm so I have to buy a pigtail for a LT1 tps sensor and some new throttle blades. After that I'll put it on and get to siamesing the base I have so when the heads get here I can have those re-done. Oh well I'll keep you guys updated, if you have any other pointers, all criticizm is accepted, especially funny ones.

Chris

 

Your welcome

All that stuff is available here if u dig and search, just passing on what I've learned
LAter
Jeremy