Ok, so thanks to Kat we finally got some good log data for the vert. We also got some pretty strange results...

First, here are the files if yous would be so kind as to look them over... maybe you can find something we missed.

This file is at idle only, no load on engine. We did rev it which youll be able to see...
http://members.aol.com/metalmalltla/robidle1.csv

This file is a WOT run and normal street driving...
http://members.aol.com/metalmalltla/robwot1.csv

This file is also a WOT run and normal street driving...
http://members.aol.com/metalmalltla/robwot2.csv

This file is a WOT run and street driving, but with 22lbhr injector consanant... (chip he had laying around)
http://members.aol.com/metalmalltla/robwot3-350bin.csv

Now, the problem is the insane amount of knock retard Im getting (17+ degrees). Problem is, every thing else seems to be in order, blm's arent far off at all. It seems like Im picking up false knock from somewhere, and the ECM is trying to compensate by dumping in fuel, hence the 12+ pulse widths. Yet, its not even going rich.

Im still a novice when it comes to prom tuning, so bear with me.

Heres a run down on all the mods done to the car:
-92 SD TPI 305 5 speed
-Edelbrock headers, slight leak, Hooker cat-back
-Siamized base
-SVO 19lb/hr injectors, at 44-46 psi
-Hyperjunk thermomaster chip (yeah, I know)
-Relocated IAT
-ALL NEW SENSORS, tested and verified
-1.6 roller tip rockers

Thats about it. We were going to burn a chip last night, but we cant really figure out what to do beings that we cant find anything acually wrong, and no audible knock. Its not leaning out up top or anything like that. The engine does run fairly rough, especially at around 2k rpm (under no load). The balancer is fine, everything I could possibly check has been checked. Im at a total loss.

Does this seem like a mechanical problem tricking the ECM into thinking there really is detonation? Help!

I looked at the 3rd (robwot2.csv) and the last log files. Yes you certainly are getting knock. From the logs it looks like the only time knock is reported is under load (WOT and low RPM pulling out). This tells me that it is true knock, not a random problem.

The roughness you mentioned at 2k no load is a sign that something is amiss. This can be caused by too much timing. If you can have a shop put the ignition system on a scope to see if anything is wrong. Could be a firing order problem, bad wire or cap, etc.

Double check your base timing to make sure that it is to spec, 6 °BTDC. May be a good idea to check the TDC mark in case the outer damper ring has shifted. Can also be an build up of carbon in the engine. Can pull the plugs and check them. See if the knock is on one chamber or all of them.

I'd recommend to toss the Hyper chip, but you knew that was coming Try to get a stock chip and start over. The 'other' chip you tried (last log file) actually has more WOT timing at ~5k then the hyper chip.

Once all the mechanical items look OK, try a stock chip. If OK then tune from there. If still have the knock I would just start pulling timing until it stops knocking and go from there.

RBob.

RBob, thanks for the reply!

Base timing is at 8* (possiblt 6*, dont quite remember), balancer is dead on acurate... I had thought that was the problem for a while, but it turned out to be fine. Firing order is correct as well. Im going to go through the ignition ONCE AGAIN and see what I can find.

As for it being true knock, Im going to bypass the KS and see if I get audible knock... with the amount of knock counts there are along with the retard, I should be able to hear it. Unless ofcourse the header leak is causing it... the leak is only really noticable under load, but I doubt its loud enough or even the right frequency to simulate knock.

As for the spark plugs, last time they were out about 2 months ago, they showed signs of running lean. There have been no changes made to the car since then, and the car has been running this way for over a year now.

Even though money is very tight right now with the engine buildup for the GTA happenning, Im probably going to cough up enough dough to get an Accel 300+ system, as well as rebuild the distributor, for the 'vert... I know its not the best out there, but its much better than stock and fits within my price range.

Another question... if the other chip I tried had more timing, why was did it yeild the least amount of knock?

Anyone?

What was the difference in fuel tables?.
Injector constant?

Some differences aren't apparent. That's one reason I kind of harp on starting with a stock bin..

How do you guys view this type of file without having to scroll all over the place to try and read them?

http://peter.kod.nu/panalyze/

Good program. You can select individual parts and have them displayed on a graph at the bottom of the screen. Or you can have them overlay each other.

Kat

Grumpy, I dont know that difference in the fuel table, but Kat could answer that cause he was the one who burned it. Soooooooo Kat, care to chime it?

Grumpy, heres a screen shot of that program... REALLY great to have! *note* if you have installation trouble, check the faq thats posted on the site... you might need to do a few simple commands.

Oh it is a AXXC.bin with everything from a AUJP.bin copied over into it. 22 # injector constant, stock timing and fuel tables..

Kat

That bin sounds really familiar.....

hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmm