Thanks Chris............that's what I thought you meant as I remembered a calibration came with the setup.

So that now that the new engine is running well...... how longs it going to stay the same?

 

3yrs or 100,000 miles! Then it is getting a blower of some form.

 

3 years is a long time dude.......

think you can hold out?

 

Any further info on this?

 

Yup, I'm also waiting. I have a pair of M90's that are dying to find out how EBL handles boost.

 

Just ordered a flash-n-burn and (2) 29C256 chips, will be getting TunerPro, am I forgetting anything? I had a link to all the stuff I would need but lost it so I'm asking again.

 

Tier,

I can't say enough about using Moates' Ostrich with all this. Pretty close to a "must have" IMO with the rest of RBob's technology. Save your pennies and get one.

 

Just plugging in a USB cable spoils ya don't it

 

I'd get one now but I just bought another car and have to do a few things to that to get it road worthy. I'll be getting an Ostrich and a WB later this year. So I guess I have everything for now.

 

I believe DM91RS was asking about this (paraphrased): I have come up with a method of modifying the TBI ECM to be able to drive 4 TBI PnH injectors. This is for folks that want to run dual 2bbl's or a single 4bbl TBI unit. This same mod will allow it to drive 8 port PnH injectors.

I did get as far as modifying one channel to the enhanced PnH configuration. And, hammered a set of paralleled TBI injectors while on the bench. Took temperature measurements, scope traces, voltage and current readings. Basically, it all looked rather good.

I am going to be back to this shortly. If anyone has a dual quad, or dual 2bbl (do they make those? not trip's) SBC manifold that they could lend, lease, rest or sell (reasonably), please let me know. I'd like to put one on the daily driver and try out a dual 2BBL TBI setup.

Thanks,

RBob.

 

My money is on the middle of the Summer '06

Already has the 2-bar on it. . .

RBob.

 

so now that the EBL is here.I have one question.What all is needed now to get a full tune?
would this be all that I would need?
EBL
WB o2
ostrich
ALDU1
ALDL cable for OBD1
Would this be enough?

 

How did you guess? JK.

The 2-bar is on and works great in NA form. I have not used the boost side of it, but I am sure that it would work equally as well.

I want a blower, just not yet. That crate 350 was bought with the intentions of adding a blower. Forged internals+ 4bolt mains+ 8.75:1 compression is just begging for forced induction.

 

Burn1
EBL
Laptop
USB-Serial Adapter

That is my current list.

The wideband is in my GMC as I am working on the 749 that is in it currently. My TBI crate 350 has been more or less tuned entirely off of the BLM self-correction in the EBL. I know this may sound a little weird, but I have been disabling PE or pushing it to 90+% TPS for tuning purposes since I have started tuning. The BLM correction will correct the fuel tables to 14.7:1, then I enable PE for 12.5:1, and I am around 12.5:1 at all times when checked against a wideband. Just play it smart when tuning with the PE disabled and you will be fine with a milder engine.

 

Rbob............thanks for the reply. Just trying to keep my options open.

 

so with the EBL I can just program what I want to do and not have to burn the chips anymore or do I still need to use the chips?The EBL is a emulation device right?

 

No emulation, still need to use either chips or an external emulator (such as the Ostrich). The real keys to the EBL setup is better ECM code, high speed data logging with 8 analog inputs (for items such as a WB O2), documented calibration tables, ECU/XDF definitions files, and a graphical data logging/playback program.

I considered a Flash download capability but felt it was more important to get the EBL to market. Actually, I considered a whole bunch of various options and features. But it came down to getting this to market for the end user. That was foremost, as without it being available all the ideas in the world are worthless.

I don't want to say too much yet, I do have additional development in the works (the 4 injector driver setup being one). My plan is to take the TBI to a level previously unseen.

RBob.

 

The package that you already have, does this well.

 

Hey, you're going to make all the 'worthless' TBI parts that I've been depending on for a cheap conversion much harder to come by...

Owell, it's worth it.

 

Hey Bob,

I tried to PM you, let me know if you don't get it.

 

This is for the ones concerned about emissions with the EBL. I ran it in the training mode at work today, the shop was clean and dead so it was time to play.

FWIW, I reconnected my stock TBI EGR valve to the ported vacuum connection on the front of the TBI, bypassing the solenoid all-togather. It apparently works well.

 

Well folks, it's time! The Embedded Lockers setup is available to everyone. Please PM me for pricing, options, and delivery. Options are whether it is a self install, we install in your ECM, or we install in an ECM we provide. The end result is the same for all, a great running engine.

At this time I would like to publicly thank the beta testers for their effort. They provided invaluable feedback and ideas for improvement. Beta testers, thank you.

Just a refresher on what the Embedded Lockers (EBL) system consists of. It is a board that is added to a C3 TBI ECM ('7747, '8746, '8747, . . .), new code (BIN), the What's Up Display, and documention on setup and calibration tables. The EBL board in conjunction with the What's Up Display (WUD) provides high speed data logging, playback, some self tuning, and analysis functions. The new code provides new capabilities and functionality beyond any stock TBI code.

Some examples of code functions:

Wet N2O control
Smart A/C control
Lean cruise mode for fuel efficiency
Digital Dash support (Y-body x-fire)
N-Alpha mode for ratty cams
2-bar MAP support with boost compensation tables
PE mode active out (can be used to control aux pumps, air intake flaps, . . .)
Various open loop modes (transisent, idle, cruise)
Full VE and SA tables to 6,400 RPM
Expanded and enhanced AE control
A real shift light (auto or stick!)
Electric fan control
Soft touch rev and speed limiter
Much improved IAC routines (you'll really like how these work)

Even stock and mildly modified engines will benefit from the new EBL code. To run the What'sUp Display (WUD) a laptop or PC that is capable of running at least Win95 is required. I'd recommend a minimum of 300 MHz PII with 64MB of RAM. There are screen shots of the WUD display further back in this thread.

Thanks again,

RBob.

 

And the 730 TPI version will be available when?????




LOL

 

awesome! i wish the mail was faster, so you could get my money sooner so i could get EBL sooner. my truck just begs for the EBL. you are THE MAN Rbob. (in case you didn't already know that)

 

Does anyone have any ideas on which emulator might be the best to use along with the ebl?

 

Did the self-install without a hitch. Had to pilfer some seriously old piles of computer junk to come up with a few '128 EPROMs. Burned the included bin and plugged her up. Worked out the bugs with my new notebook/USB-serial converter and wow--this is slick! The real-time malfunction codes display immediately pointed out that my OEM controller didn't have IAT connected. That'll turn on the SES light if you wondering.

The WUD, the ability to create a new bin based on learned values, the highlighted live cell...all very nice. I'm not sure there's anyone else online I'd send a check to for a sight unseen product, but RBob does class work. This product does not disappoint.

The .ecu file is too large for promedit or WinBin, so I created an awk program to strip out the addresses I wanted. It's not complete yet, but what I've got is at http://www.aces.edu/~gparmer/efi/ecu.awk. Unless you're an old time unix guy you may not recognize awk, but it's probably in your Linux distro without you knowing it. If you re-write it for Windoze (vbs?), please send me a copy. I'll add a functional description and corrections in the next couple of weeks.

Meanwhile...
in a very big way to the king of TBI.

-greg

 

Finally came in today, was wondering a few things.
Do I have to use the RJ-11 cord to get readings from the EBL or can I still go through the ALDL port?

Does TunerPro rip BINs from the computer so that I can get the bin I have now and add the values of the manditory edited stuff to get the EBL installed with a useable chip? If not what program does that?

I was hoping to get this installed the day it came in but I quickly realized how lost I am and will have to spend time going through values figuring out what everything means and a way to hook up my electric fans blah, blah, etc.

 

How does it work with TunerPro?

 

Yes, the RJ11 does need to be used. It is what allows for the high speed data logging. With the EBL the ALDL port is still functional and is only useful for diagnostics (with a scan tool), and the Y-body Digital Dash.

One thing to try is hook up the RJ11/DB9 and fire up the What's Up Display. Then key-on, engine-off and see if the data comes through (may need to try different comm ports to find the correct one). Then move the go-pedal, the TPS% gauge should follow. Can then try starting the engine and see how it works out.

No bin ripper available. It shouldn't take too long to setup a bin. I would rough in the SA tables, and run some VE learn. That will quickly get the setup driveable. Don't be too hesitant to try out the provided BIN, for a stockish engine it is a great starting point.

Items like the electric fan, if you are using the temperature switch in the head, leave it for now. Sometime down the road you can switch it over to ECM control.

I put 90% of the cal stuff in the ECU/XDF. And at the same time 80% can be ignored when starting out. Eventually, portions of that other 80% will come in handy. Just give it a little time to get used to it all.

RBob.

 

I think I know someone here at the dorms that has a DB9 to USB adapter that I may be able to borrow/buy so that shouldn't be a huge problem. Still don't have a clue what to do with the SA tables and a long list of things you said were mandatory to change. My engine is going blow up if I install this thing thats if it runs at all
I guess I should start by adding in TCC lockup maybe a few other bits to get going. I should probably start an EBL how to or something where I can collect info and maybe get a sticky going for newbs such as myself.

 

As I presently have one in the mail, and looking forward to the install etc..

Any plans for a dedicated web site or forum for users?

I know I will have even more questions, and hate to bother you will all the emails, when one of your beta testers might be able to answer.

Just curious.

 

i think that having a page for us newbs would be really cool. i'm starting to catch onto stuff, but i need/want all the help i can get.

 

I am still working on the web site. Not sure how to go about putting a forum on it, but I have been considering it.

RBob.

 

For newbies it can help to read a lot of the general tuning info here on TGO. In this regard the EBL is no different, still has the INT and BLM's, AE and IAC, SA and VE tables. The real difference is that the code behind the scenes is better. Like anything new it will take some time to get used to the calibration items and such. But once you get going you will like it even more.

RBob.

 

The shift light ,Electric fan control, Smart A/C control, PE mode active out .

What's it take to hook these items up?

 

Guys,

You need to transfer your current bin over to EBL. For the additional granularity available in the SA and VE tables, just use a midpoint. Then take it out and drive it. Use the Learn VE function. Works very well. Pretty close to Stoich with about 8 burns. Using the Ostrich makes it possible to go through 3-4 new calibrations in about 3 hours including drive time. I tuned initially using the WB setting in O/L first. Now I have switched to fine tuning through use of BLM setting. BTW, I have used a USB/serial converter from my EASE scantool. Works great. Understand there's a converter at WalMart that works better than the R/S one.

 

Would it be feasible to address the questions in a continuation of this thread under a faq or q+a header? Know nothing of how this computer stuff works , just a suggestion. Thanks, Val

 

For those looking to use the CCP system with a soleniod, the N2O functionality will do the trick. Not sure why I didn't think of this before.

Ground the enable input (C8), set up the N2O RPM window to 1,500 & 6,000, the MPH enable to 15, then the TPS% to 8 to 10%. Be sure to check that the N2O SA retard is 0.

The CCP solenoid then needs to be on pin A4. It may currently be on A3, it is on the '747 & '746, not sure on the '6965 (Caprice).

That will work. Of course it can't be used for N2O, but for folks not running N2O it is a decent option.

RBob.

 

These outputs are from the common quad driver (QD). In this case they pull low, to ground. There is an option word that will make them active high or active low. IOW, the PE mode when active can be having the driver pull low, or have it open.

As for devices on these outputs, it depends upon the load. Items such as the A/C compressor and an electric fan will need to use a relay. I tend to gravitate towards GM parts. They are readily available and are designed to be driven from a quad driver.

The shift light will depend upon what is being used. If a bright LED, it can be driven directly from the QD.

The PE mode active will also depend upon what it is being used for. If in doubt just toss a relay or MOSFET in there.

The relays that GM has been using for fuel pumps, A/C, and fans ahve been the same one (for the 3rd gen years at least). They have a 60 ohm coil and pull 240 mA (@ 14.4 V).

I tend to keep that in mind for a design item. Note that the TCC output is 2 QD's in parallel.

RBob.

 

Thanks Bob,

So for most controls just use the already existing fan relay type?

That's ezy.

 

I'll be doing the conversion on a 6965 this weekend and will post up the results on what needs to be changed if anything.

 

I received my EBL today and have it almost ready.
I am not sure where the #1 pin orientation is for my ZIF socket or the Calpac socket
I will be using an autoprom with a zif socket
Where is pin 1 on the Prom socket?
Where is pin 1 for the calpac?
Where is Pin 1 for the calpac socket?

Really excited about getting this in this weekend.
Thanks guys for all your advise and help love this place.

 

SBCs (do) Rule, I attached a picture too show how the #1 pins are oriented. For those that have sent an ECM that included the CALPAK, it was inserted into this position.

RBob.

 

I have the 7427 ECM in my truck. In order to use this lockers board I will have to convert to the 7747 correct?

 

Thanks RBob
That was my guess.

 

Welcome. On the calpak one end has a white line across it, that is the pin 1 end. Next layout I am going to put a large '1' at those pins. Not sure why I didn't do it on this layout. Maybe I was thinking that the sockets would define it better (they don't).

RBob.

 

Is the full number for the ECM 16197427 ? That ECM is also used to run the electronic trans. In order to use the EBL setup you need to piggyback the two ECMs. Leave the original to run the trans and the EBL to run the engine.

One of the beta guys did just that. Only needed a few inputs to the PCM for the tans, with the majority going to the EBL ECM. He built an adaptor harness to plug the two ECMs into the orignal harness connectors.

RBob.

 

So which software will come with this? the H.U.D. program showed many pages ago or the W.U.D. program? From the looks both programs can datalog?

This looks to be the one thing my 383 needs so badly.

 

The data logging/display/analysis program that is supplied with the EBL is the What's Up Display. The other software supplied is the code that runs the engine, which is what gets burned/flashed into the PROM.

RBob.

 

you do need it so badly. we both do. mine should be here monday!!

edit: it is here TODAY!! hopefully i'll get it in this weekend.