RBob,

Hopefuly if you have used the WB to tune with the BLMs locked, there would be little to no adjustment required. I bring the issue up because I see a discrepancy between what the WB says is 14.7 v what is indicated by the NB. So you could be tuned fine with the WB, but then the ECM would be modifying that tune to match the NB input.

 

RBob Please release this. I just had a offer from NASA for my liver. A quite attractive offer I might add . They said they wanted it for the next heat sheild on their space scutttle.

 

hwp,

Hang on to the liver. It'll be worth it!

 

I know that this has not been asked BUT!!!!!!!!!
Any idea on the release date yet.

 

Guys,

I can tell you there's nobody more anxious to release this thing than RBob. On the other hand, he won't put something out that isn't complete and that won't be bulletproof. Let's just let him do his thing. He'll let you know soon enough.

 

Don't want to bother you too much, but does this mean that the HUD application will no longer be used? I take it something less system intensive is going to be integrated?

Jim

 

so hows it coming bob? any luck with the bugs?

 

Jim, robertfrank, et. al., sorry took so long to get back to you. What I have been working on is a General Win32 application. Low overhead, good performance. With some of the screens completed they do run on a 233MHz Win95 box (along with 450 MHz NT4.0 and 2 GHz XP boxes). I have been creating this app with performance and lower end laptops in mind.

The reason I haven't been around much is that I have been working on an EBL app. This app is for analysis and support of the EBL system. Once I have the required functionality I will be releasing the EBL system.

RBob.

 

Guys,

I just happened to be playing back a datalog from the HUD/EBL combination I have. I gotta tell you, what Jon has created is a graphical ECM bench. Its pretty awesome when you think of it.


RBob, would we be able to playback a datalog through both the HUD display and the analysis software you're creating?

Dominic

 

Very much so. Think of a Scan Tool for OBDII + some on what comes out of the EBLs data stream. Just about everything worth looking out, comes out in the EBL data stream.

I was just reviewing some data as well, on of my ported 081s decided to crack and I had to swap to a set of stock port 187s just to get back on the road. I WAS rich in the mid-upper RPM range. Now I am not. 60 miles and the fuel table is already done, well atleast until I start on the timing. Fuel, timing, fuel, timing, fuel, timing, TCC, fuel, timing, etc.

FWIW, You'll should see the HUD in action on a 2.13 GHz XP machine.

My new laptop lacks a serial port but has like 6 USB ports. I picked up a serial-usb converter from Walmart for $10.00 that works great with the EBL setup.

It is an IOGEAR GUC232AWM. SK# Z752033BGV0522. It comes in a silver/green box approximately 5"x5".

It is able to keep up with the EBL for the duration of the datalog, unlike some other lesser more expensive units that I found ($40.00 Radioshack POC)

 

Yes, it has playback and data log. There are multiple screens that show various information. The MPG screen is one such information display. Since you have received the beta for that I have placed the comm, mpg calc's, and display of in a separate thread. This allows it to keep running even when playing with menus/help/about, and even when another screen is selected.

This is to be sure that the MPG calculation is accurate. The same technique is being carried throughout the application. I have some more work to do to it, but once it has the features to allow for tuning I'll be releasing the EBL system.

RBob.

P.S. to answer the question before it is asked, yes, this analysis program also has a graphical display.

 

Fast,

I am using the HUD on my 2.4Ghz MPC Laptop. Watching the flags turning on and off is great. Seeing when you're in DE or DFCO, PE etc. And watching the DC% and PW along side the Knock Counts is really handy when tuning for WOT. Everything is right there. I haven't used the AutoTune, sounds like you may have?

RBob,

Thanks for the update. Sounds awesome. The weather has been c*ap here and haven't been able to get out this week to test.

 

I also like the MPG display, it comes in handy when you are tuning the lean cruise feature.

One of the best things I did for in-town MPG was install an amber light on the dash connected to the PE output, it really does help save gas, IF you make sure not to turn it on by using a light foot.

I make the same 140 mile trip almost every weekend. I typically set the cruise at 75 and just go. With the cruise set, 4 people with me, in lean cruise, running about 2,300 rpm with the A/C on I was able to get 19 mpg this last time.

I think that says something about this code, not only is it performance based, it is efficiency based as well. One of the ways to get more power is to be more efficient and this code does it well.

I am thinking it is time for dual TBIs. I have two ultimate TBI moded V8 tbis, and four 2.8 injectors laying around. I have a feeling that the air/fuel mixture will be better distributed. I am pulling a vacuum on the BB TBI with my 305, so there should be some performance benifit as well.

 

Fast,

Try using a modded CF manifold. With 2" TB's and 80psi Injectors that should be more than enough for your 305.

 

man, I'm anxiosly waiting for the release. I could finally tune for the VAFPR, not have to buy a shift light, hook up my taurus electric fan, not have to buy a window switch for the n2o, then I'll be all set for the twin turbos. hehe

 

I am just starting to get into tuning and it is a bit overwhelming. I was just wondering if the autotune feature will eliminate the need for learning DIY tuning or is it to be used more as an aid for tuning? Basically, could joe shmo install the EBL and turn the autotune feature on and after driving around for a while have a tune that is more or less dead on? Sorry if this has been covered before but this is a very long thread and I might have missed it.

 

This might work for a stock to mildy modified motor but I could not see it programming something like heads or cam for you. I'm sure someone that has actually used it will be able to give you a MUCH better answer but I'd say don't count on it doing all the work for you.

 

I had to switch the heads on my 305, cracked one of the 081s, long story short, I ended up with a stock 187, big cam combo. I autotuned it to get it close, then tweaked it from there.

 

I have been tuning using my ZT-2 WB. Basically, the BLMs and INTs are locked during this process and motor is running off what's there in te VE table. In the last several weeks, I have turned the BLMs and INTs back on so that the ECM is now doing some learning and modifying the VE table based on the O2 sensor input. Its pretty close. I would like to use the "Learn" in EBL/HUD to tweak the last few rough spots . I'd agree with Tier tho that for heads and cam package (like mine for instance) you'll need to get the tune reasonable.

 

The autotune feature doesn't do timing either does it?? If that's the case he'd definitely need to learn how to tune himself, timing is very very important in getting the tune right or even close to right.

 

I am already in the process of learning tuning right now, actually I just burned my first chip last week. I was just wondering if the EBL would be a good place for a beginner to start, or is it going to take the same know how as before, just take a lot less time. You pretty much answered my question.

 

Exactly, but this also makes it much better for beginners. If it takes less time for a pro to get it right it'll also be easier on a newb.

 

o man, i'm so excited for this EBL to come out. i'll finally get my 383 running right.

 

Bron,

If you've already gotten the tune to the point where your BLMs/AFR is where it ought to be, what else do you look for in doing the SA?

 

Leaving Brian and the Holley behind will help tremendously.

 

Dom, I was just directing that towards the guy that asked if he still needed to know how to tune a car with the EBL setup, and was saying that he's still going to need to know how to shape a good timing curve and tune the timing curve with his VE even with EBL and autotune.

Just saying, i wouldn't want to dive into tuning a motor wihtout knowing "how" to tune the motor and just letting EBL do what it should, if something went wrong he'd never know it, ya know what I mean?

 

Bron,

I may not have phrased it correctly. I actually was curious about what process you use for tuning SA once you've tuned VE.

 

ahh sorry I didn't catch that. To be honest I rough out a pretty basic spark curve then get the VE dialed in. Then I just kind of go off of idle quality and try some different spark advances around my idle and see where it smooths out the most and then smooth the curve around there. Then see what advance makes the most power and smooth the curve around that. I haven't done a ton of tuning on it yet though because i just recently got it running good again and now it's covered for the winter and I'm down in Champaign. I'm going to be doing all my tuning over the spring/summer. I definitely see if I have any knock though anywhere and try to get rid of that in the areas where it may have occurred (hard to tell with the slow baud rate) but I try not to rely on that much at all. It's been more of a SOTP "feel" thing, whatever gives best driveability in midrange, smoothest idle and best power in their respective cells.

 

you wouldn't believe the difference the swap back to the stock tb made. i think i'll still need bigger injectors, but for now, i'm just babying it around until i can datalog and get some info.

 

Hi guys just keeping it fresh.how`s it coming bob?

 

Nicely, I have a Windows app ( the What's Up Display) that will be going to the beta testers shortly. Once they give it their seal of approval I will be shipping.

I think you will like the What'sUp Display. It has a main graphical display that is similar to a virtual dash. Then 3 other screens: a trip computer, VE learn, and spark knock. The trip computer shows MPG (instant and average), fuel consumed (in gallons), and miles traveled. This display is in large block letters so that it may be read from a distance.

The VE Learn screen shows one of the three: original BIN VE %, learned VE%, or the corrections in %.

The spark knock screen shows one of the three: average knock, peak knock, or total knock.

The VE & Spark screens show this information in a table format. Such as seen in a BIN editor. The current MAP/RPM intersect is highlighted with a color block. The color of the block in the VE tables defines whether it is actively learning or not.

VE learn can be via WB input or BLM input. User selectable, along with which WB and input channel.

For a little of the technical side, the What's Up Display is a multi-threaded process. This allows all data accumulation to take place in the back ground. No data is lost even if a drop down menu (such as help or preferences) is selected, the data collection and display stills runs.

This means that a user can start the program, enable VE learn and data logging (has playback also), then switch to the MPG screen for driving. The data will be logged, the VE learn will take place, and the sceeen will be displaying the MPG.

The user can switch between any screen and the What'sUp Display will still be data logging, VE learning, and keeping track of the MPG. Even the spark knock screen will show the correct data as it is always collecting.

I have other functionality to add, and I'll do that once the EBL gets going. What's Up Display updates will be free and readily available to all EBL users.

RBob.

 

Kool...........so now it's going to be a WUD instead of a HUD?



DM

 

Dang...........forgot to ask. Got any screenshots of this for us?

Thanks for all the hard work Bob...

 

"VE learn can be via WB input or BLM input. User selectable, along with which WB and input channel."

 

Very nice. What happened to the original HUD? I think JPrevost was working on it.

 

D@MN.... you've alomst got me thinking I need to convert from my '730 AUJP based SUperRam to a TBI on my 383, and I never thought that would be possible!!! LOL


So, when you doing the TPI version? Hmmmmmm??????

I'm willing to go on record as your first TPI tester!

 

LOL

I think the line forms to the rear........

 

LOL

I'm sure you're right about that one.....

 

the suspence is killing me....

 

Me too. I am awaiting getting to tune the EBL on a basically stock 350 TBI. I am wanting to see what happens compared to a stock ECM with the same stuff. I bet it runs alot better on the EBL than the factory ECM.

 

i can't wait to see how the stroker runs on it. i'll probably crap my pants.

 

Has any of the final documentation been released? It only makes sense that the WUD doc would be incomplete, but I was curious about the hardware mod instructions.

 

The document on installing the EBL board into the ECM has not been completed. I have some pictures but got sidetracked with the WUD software (which is looking good!).

I'm going to finish up some install info this week. For pic's I have a site that I should be able to put them on. Once I have some stuff there I'll let everyone know.

RBob.

 

Just thought that I would show some screenshots from the new crate 350, while I was breaking it in.



















Note that this is with a near out of the box EBL calibration, on a new 350 that I was driving rather aggresively in town to seat the rings.

 

D@MN!!!!


That is some really neat looking stuff! Kudos to RBob and the team working on this effort! AmAzInG!!!!

 

Guys,

I am hoping to get the car out this weekend and do tuning using the WB and Learn function. What's awesome is playing back a datalog and watching WUD run through the RPM/MAP plotting where to change the VE or where it is picking up Knock Counts.
And in O/L, it'll even make changes to tune WOT for the commanded AFR. RBob is a ***.

 

Man, that's awesome stuff.

Dom, I'm going to show up at your doorstep this weekend so I can see it in action haha

 

Here's some stuff to whet the old appetite

 

Fast.......What do you mean by an "out of the box" cal.?

Rbob.......Great job.

Display looks clean, neat and to the point.

 

I simply meant that I took RBobs calibration, changed the injector constant, changed the initial timing setting to match the distributer, flipped it to 2-bar MAP to match my MAP sensor, and the engine fired right up, drives smooth, and didn't talk back too much. After some BLM correction, some tweaks on the timing, it runs great now. It will walk a Hemi up to about 50-60 MPH!