Well tommorow is officially going to be day 1 of my tuning career. I have absolutly no experience with this stuff what so ever. Read through what i can understand of the stickies on this board and a local board i use so i at least have a very basic understanding.

bought the aldl connector and burner from moates. Actually already paid for a custom tune on the motor when i had it rebuilt, but they only got a basic tune done to break the motor in, and for all intensive purposes that shop doesnt exist anymore. Cars running super rich right now so it needs a tune.

I've downloaded the 8d xdf file off of moates website, car is a 90 SD car, formerly a tpi 350 car with mods listed in sig. have the converter box switched to open which it says on the moates website is how it should be set for my ecm.
Also downloaded the most current version of tunerpro RT

do i need to download anything else to be able to do datalogging? I'm hoping that it will all be pretty straight forward, get tuner pro up and running and drive the thing around for a bit to get some good numbers in there.

Is there anything else i need to do or any sugestions for when i do my datalogging? The goal for tommorow is just to get some good datalogging in so that i have some numbers to go off of to start learning the tuning software.

 

Welcome to burning your own.

the XDF is for editing your bin, to data log you'll need the ads file.
go to back to Moates & find "Datastream Definitions"
for the 730 ECM with 8D, i like FIRST THRID GEN 1227730.ads.

 

what exactly does a ads file or datastream definition file do?

and whats the difference between them? i ask cause you say that you like that one, meaning theres other options too. just trying to understand what it is that im doing

 

the ads file is the data stream definition file for TunerPro.
i like that one because its the most complete & accurate data stream file i have found for 8D.

i also use more than 1 XDF, Super_8dm2., 8d_v03, & 1227730_8d which are ecu files that you import into TunerPro & then save them as XDF files.
they each do some things a little differently.

 

so first test run was unsuccessful. Heres whats happened so far.

To start with i loaded the driver that came on the moates cd. have the aldl cable connected into its connector, that plugged into the extreme aldl converter which is switched to open, and then the usb end plugged into the laptop.

when i plug it in it recognizes that the driver is already installed.

started the car..

so i bring up tunerpor rt, went into the tools->datalogging->setup. i brought up the first third gen ads file. Tried to connect and it wont connect.

Saw that it says hardware not found on the bottom, so back under tools->initialize attached hardware.
that would take a minute as well and just came back as hardware not found

what am i doing wrong?

 

Try going to Device Manager, Hardware, Comm Ports, and look at what Com port your cable in connected.
It will say, maybe, Com1, Com10, etc.
Then, go back to Tunerpro, look at Tools, Preferences, Com port, and make sure you set it to the same settings as Device Manager says.
You should be able to go from there.
Ron

 

thanks! my usb port is com6 and tunerpro was set for com1.

only strange thing i noticed was in the aldl dash menu when i switched to tps % i was getting a reading of 0.00%

was a little worried because i just switched to a bbk lt1 throttle body and was told the tps ran off the same signal.
i checked the aldl values menu though and it had an accurate reading of my tps%. could the lack of a reading on the dash menu be a result of not having my vss hooked up?

EDIT figured out all of the issues that i just edited out

Not sure to convert my adl tuner pro file into a text file so that i can actually look through the raw data

looking at my VE table it definitly looks off, when you put it in a graph i guess around 70 kpa 3/4 of the way up the chart it compleltly flatlines and then spikes at the end

anyways need to be able to get at the data from my datalogging so i can start playing around.

off topic but i also need to be reminded how to check my tps voltage and what it should be set at, not sure if it being an lt1 tps on my computer makes any difference

 

You can turn a Tunerpro data log into a .csv file to read in Xcel and look at your columns, or when dealing with the VE tables, you might want to go back to the DIY Prom tutorials and look at the part that explains Datamaster and VEmaster.
I've used them to help with my VE tuning, and they work great! After I ran Datamaster a couple times, I went back to VE tables and kind of smoothed them myself.
A really good spreadsheet to do all that would be great.
You might want to look at scannerpro also. I think that is what Mark is going for.

 

ya theres a button in tuner pro that converts it into a file for you, thanks i see that now.

have it in a spread sheet, have to read through the stickies again to get a better idea of what im looking for now. Was under the impression that a starting point was how much abover or below 128 your blms are, and tune for that. When i run datalogging tho, my blms just stay solid at 128 the whole time im driving, and as much as i would love to believe my cars perfect, it runs super rich and really bad.

ill do some more reading then ill have some more questions.
thanks guys youre making this a lot easier

any sugestions of where to start are appreciated. I might eventually use the ve master but for now id really like just to get an idea of how to interpret the information im getting, and make small changes to the program

 

heres a question, how do i get tunerpro completly into farenheight? i live up here in canada but i still have no idea what thermostat temp is in calcius.

 

In tunerpro, Look at the flags screen and playback your datalog. I would be more than willing to bet that your vehicle is staying in open loop and potentially is in limp home mode which would explain the rich condition. The flags screen not only will show you loop status but also show you if there are any codes present at the time.

 

i actually drove down the street like 3 minutes and then started the log and it was already in closed loop. Only codes i throw are for the VSS cause my speedo isnt hooked up, as well as when im cruising on the highway i get 02 sensor rich.

was reading that from the factory the highway mode is disabled by being set to 255mph, and this was not edited with the new chip. ill read back to that sticky again and edit my bin so i at least have highway mode.

also came to realize that as much as my lower and upper VE tables look pretty atrocious, realized that my second upper table 5600-6500 is blank. Not sure what program he used to burn the actual chip, but considering my peak hp is at 6000 this is a little bit of an issue.

also still really want to figure out why half of the coolant related settings are in celcius? i cant do celcius perticularly easily, is there a way to change htis in tuner pro? or should i just buy tunercat

also not sure how it can read my blms as a constant 128 dead on

 

the previous person who played with it may have locked your BLMs at 128, you may want to look into that...take a look at min BLM and max BLM to make sure they both arent set at 128

 

min blm and max blm are both set to 128
blm integrator value max and min are also both set to 128

what are the effects of him having done this and why would he do it?
i'm a little confused on blms. If you are higher or lower then 128 the computer adjusts the fuel mixture. by setting max and min to 128 does this effectively make it so the computer cant adjust rich or lean? and just run how its set? thats about the most i can figure out

any sugestions on what sort of a range to give the computer in that area.

 

Depending on how much you want to let the computer intervene...My BLM Max is at 160, Min is 108.

If you are less than 128, you are running rich, and the computer is pulling fuel.
If you are more than 128, you are running lean, and the computer is adding fuel.

BLMs are effectively long term fuel trim, where as integrator is your short term fuel trim.
Your INT will try to very finely adjust your fuel trim with BLMs at 128. When INT reaches its max (160 added as much fuel as allowed and its still lean) or min (108 subtracted as much fuel allowed and is still rich), it will move the BLM whichever way it needs to go and reset at 128...this process goes on and on...128 is perfect in both cases and it is what everyone strives for, from what I can see. INT moves really quickly, where as BLMs move more slow. My personal preference would be to tune first by BLM, then once you have that all dialed in, move to INT if you want.

The reason for locking the BLMs at 128 would be potentially for wideband tuning at WOT, MAF tuning (165 car), whatever tuning you do with SD (MAP tuning?) etc...the reasons why could be endless...but it shouldnt be like that permanently. You want to be able to allow the computer to compensate, so you yourself can see where you need to add and subtract fuel when you are in closed loop.

 

thats exactly what was done, a base tune was done at WOT on the dyno, he was having problems with his UV eraser and couldnt clear the chips he had with him, was supposed to go back but the shops all but closed.
its a SD car.

how far can i safely let the blms climb? dont want to risk leaning it out too much. Would assume i can give myself a little more tolerance on the rich side (which is where i expect it to go for the most part) seeing as how that wont do as much damage.

what does blm integrator value mean, can i just give myself the same tolerances with that?

im assuming when i go back out and do my next data log i should just do half to 3/4 throttle passes and adjust my VE table according to the blms, then go back out and do more testing so im not so worried about it going way too far one way or the other.

also not sure what im going to do about the fact that the VE table for 5600-6500 is blank. but i can worry about that after i get my ve table looking a little more respectable

 

how far can i safely let the blms climb? dont want to risk leaning it out too much. Would assume i can give myself a little more tolerance on the rich side (which is where i expect it to go for the most part) seeing as how that wont do as much damage.

BLMs will rise to the highest number in your tune allowable. I think most of use have it 160. If yoy see 160 then it is maxed and puter cannot add more fuel. If it is say 140 then puter has corrected to stoich.

also not sure what im going to do about the fact that the VE table for 5600-6500 is blank. but i can worry about that after i get my ve table looking a little more respectable.

I would stay away from heavy throttle until you get lower rpm CL under control. I dont know why it would be blank. Can you add to that row what is in underlying rows by editing your .bin?

A WB is in your future!

 

The stock $8D code VE table only goes to 5600 RPM. Double check which $8D code you are using (maybe super AUJP??). Along with which XDF file is being used.

There are patched/updated version of the $8D code that have extended VE tables. If you are using a BIN with an extended VE table then I would put some values in those areas. Otherwise the engine will start to go lean then cut out. It's that 'going lean' area I would worry about.

RBob.

 

i downloaded a couple other xfd files that were recommended, ill try opening with those too.

ya definitly not taking it up past 4000 again until i get that figured out, goign to let the blm fluctuate a bit and see how far it goes im guessing to the rich side, can start adjusting my ve table from there.

still need to know what blm integrator value means, its also set to 128 max and min, do i just adjust it in the same way?

and yes definitly worried about that whole lean scenario, would love to get some numbers in there but not exactly sure where to start

 

okay so the plan now is to set my blm and blm integrator values to max 140 and min 115, and go for a part throttle drive

under the impression highway and pe modes should be turned off
highway mode is off
pe is turned off by enrich power enable % TPS by turning the values by changing the 6 or so values at various rpms all to 99%? is this right or is there a better way to do it.

then am going to go for a part throttle cruise, take it up to around 4500 being gentle with it, and see what my blm values are.

also wondering why the numbers in my VE table are lowest at 1500 rpms
highest at 3600, and then starte going down and by 5600 its back at where it was at 1500 rpms

if it helps any when he was doing wot tuning it was really rich down low, not bad through the middle then a little bit lean up top


EDIT

 

108-160 for integrator should do it. set same as BLM.

 

^

 

the blm integrator is the short term fuel trim. its the one that changes fast.

your going to need to get your VSS working, otherwise the ECM will stay in the idle cell & you'll be redoing the tune.

without going through my notes i don't remember how to turn PE off, but i wouldn't turn PE completely off just yet. just raise PE & work your way up through the VE tables.

part of the reason the VE table starts going lower at higher RPM is because you get less air into the motor at higher RPM with the factory TPI intake. 3400~3600 RPM is around where the stock TPI intake works best, going higher & intake starts becoming a restriction for the air flow.
if you noticed, in the 100 MAP column there is a big drop in VE from 4000 to 4400 RPM. thats the wall you sometimes read about with a stock TPI intake.
if your intake has been ported or you have an aftermarket intake you may find you need to increase the VE in the high MAP higher RPM areas.

 

LOL ya i have a stealth ram on there, the heads are barely better then stock, but its got a 224/230 cam and made peak power on the dyno right at 6000

was wondering cause i found a bin off the net for a stealth ram car and it just climbs as the map pressure drops, no reason for it to still come back down

gotta figure out what to do about this vss situation too, have a tko-600 5 speed and it doesnt just hook up to stock. I could care less about the gauge actually working, but need to figure something out so that the computer is getting the information it needs

 

I too did disable the PE by setting it at TPS 100%. that was for a few higher RPM steady throttle runs to get the BLMs to populate at 4000-4400 rpms. It certainly is not something you want to do until you have <3600 close. And be certain to restore the PE mode after you get a good datalog up there. I really dont think I needed to go to 100% TPS to invoke PE. I would set 75% and see if it will give you what you need.

Actually I ended up setting my values in those higher RPM tables by witnessing rich PE(11.7/1) and inability to get 12.7/1 when my PE commanded to 12.7/1. Then I knew I was fat at higher RPMs in my VE fueling and started dropping VE values till the PE was as commanded. It just is impractical to datalog at 4000-4400 rpms for me.

 

so ive decided not to do any more tuning until my dakota digital vss converter gets here and is hooked up.

got bored tho and took the upper ve table that i have and just edited it the way i would think fueling should be with a hsr.
any thoughts or opinions are welcome, its running on 22lb injectors.
EDIT some discrepencies found in original table posted
re-edited
heres a direct link so it can be blown up http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x.../editedbin.jpg


i figure this cant be much of any worse then what was in there

 

im also going crazy because i know i found a bin for a stealth ram bin and was looking at the VE tables. would be awesome to have that to look at and compare but i cant ****ing find it now

EDIT: im thinking about actually running this ve table with the way the rest of the chip is setup right now.

its kind of off the wall, but it couldnt be worse then whats in there now. I havent adjusted anything in the chip spark wise just the VE table its self. I figure the computer will correct for rich lean anyways off that so in theory i should be fine?

can i take a chance at just running my bin with that VE table? if i do what should i be keeping an eye on for my datalogging that the motors not getting into trouble?

 

If you find that HSR bin I'd love to take a look.

 

Did you look at Craig Moates website under downloads? I bet it is there.

 

I put my Dig Dakota in place of the yellow box that splits the signal from the VSS to the ecm, speedo and cruise control. It turned out that box was toast anyways, plus it gave a convenient place to mount it and power. Not sure on yours, but the bird had it where a passengers left knee would hit the dash.

 

awesome post. Thanks, I was about to do the dakota digital box. I see you have some of the wires labeled. Which ones feed the ECM and cruise control? Obviously there are outputs for all these on the DD box? If your yellow box would not have been bad, wouldn't it be easier to just wire the DD box inline with the speedo wire and leave the yellow box alone?

 

I would remove the yellow box and let the dd split the signal. That way you can use two outputs of the dd and steal the power and ground and real estate of the buffer. Since I converted to a t56, I ran the wires for the vss, backup lights and wb where the shifter cable went. I used twisted shielded pair for the vss that I made with aluminum foil and a bare ground wire. Remember to only ground one end of the shield ground wire.

I attached the other two pics that helped me out. The wire diagrams makes it appear that the purple and yellow go the the ecm?? What is useful about that is it tells you the pulses that goes out of the box: 4000 to the speedo and 2000 to the cruise. I can't remember what goes to the ecm(2000 I think), but I recall taking the yellow box apart to find out where the ecm wire went. I knew it was correct when I went online with the ecm.

Shoot me a pm if you need more info/pics.