How much interest in an open source C3/P4 project?
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From: SE Wisconsin
Car: OT TBI Jeep
Engine: 5.7L
Transmission: AX15
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How much interest in an open source C3/P4 project?
Is anyone interested in PCBs and/or kits for arduino-based tuning hardware? I have a bench setup that allows me to dump PROMs, edit BINs (on Android - I'm not going to reinvent the wheel for Windows), flash BINs back into the ECM, and do datalogging for 160 baud C3 ECMs, specifically the 8746 at this time. This would support communications over both USB and Bluetooth, on Windows and Android.
I've been thinking about maybe doing a Kickstarter project to raise funds to take this to the next level - essentially to procedure additional ECMs for development and develop a PCB that would shrink this small enough to fit into the ECM instead of hanging off a ribbon cable. Contributions would be rewarded with blank PCBs, DIY board/parts kits, or fully assembled boards depending on the donation amount. The hardware design, PCB layout, and Windows/Android software would remain free and open.
This has a lot of other possibilities too...the same board could drive relays to activate aux lighting, air lockers on 4x4 vehicles, perform VSS pulse correction upstream from the ECM and dash to adjust for tire/gearing differences, add digital or analog inputs to the ALDL stream, GPS, etc.
Is this something folks might be interested in? The hardware will be really inexpensive with enough support. The custom PCBs are probably the costliest part - the parts on them that drive the whole thing are actually very ***EDIT**IN-expensive these days.
I've been thinking about maybe doing a Kickstarter project to raise funds to take this to the next level - essentially to procedure additional ECMs for development and develop a PCB that would shrink this small enough to fit into the ECM instead of hanging off a ribbon cable. Contributions would be rewarded with blank PCBs, DIY board/parts kits, or fully assembled boards depending on the donation amount. The hardware design, PCB layout, and Windows/Android software would remain free and open.
This has a lot of other possibilities too...the same board could drive relays to activate aux lighting, air lockers on 4x4 vehicles, perform VSS pulse correction upstream from the ECM and dash to adjust for tire/gearing differences, add digital or analog inputs to the ALDL stream, GPS, etc.
Is this something folks might be interested in? The hardware will be really inexpensive with enough support. The custom PCBs are probably the costliest part - the parts on them that drive the whole thing are actually very ***EDIT**IN-expensive these days.
Last edited by jdarg; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:28 PM.
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From: Marion, IL
Car: 86 Trans Am/85 K5 Jimmy
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Re: How much interest in an open source C3/P4 project?
If I am understanding this correctly the prototype you have been finishing up is for a EBL based setup? It sounds interesting if I am understanding it all correctly.
Thread Starter
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
Likes: 3
From: SE Wisconsin
Car: OT TBI Jeep
Engine: 5.7L
Transmission: AX15
Axle/Gears: 4.88
Re: How much interest in an open source C3/P4 project?
There is some similarity. This would overlap some of EBL's functionality (flashing), lacks some (i.e. the "lockers" feature of EBL, which amounts to the high speed datalogging AFAIK, and of course the world's finest TBI code), and adds new features EBL doesn't have right now AFAIK (native USB/bluetooth connectivity, digital outputs, Android software.) This is also probably a little bit easier to install for someone not comfortable with soldering, etc.
But EBL is a closed product. A VERY fine product - which I use in one of my own vehicles - but its not open. If you want to hack the hardware to control some external lighting relays, or modify the WUD software to drive that, its not going to happen. Nor am I interested in driving away someone's business by cloning their device and offering it for free.
With this project, the hardware design and software would be open and belong to everyone. If someone wants tuning software for their Windows Phone, they could use the source code as a starting point rather than reinventing the wheel from scratch, for example. I want set a starting point for future experimentation that will take us through the next 10 years, I guess. This a very exciting time for people who like to tinker with code and hardware.
One thing I realize as I develop this is that a lot of the effort than went into hacking these GM ECMs started out relatively open - people sharing information and code, but time has caused a lot of this information to become lost, and its very difficult to piece some of it back together here in 2014. Getting the 160 baud data stream working, for example, proved fairly challenging because the info that was probably all over the web 10 years ago is now gone. The 8192 stream is certainly much easier to deal with with modern hardware but the 160 bps stuff is a little strange. The Android bin editor was also a challenge because a specification for the various ADF/XDF formats simply doesn't exist so it all has to be reverse engineered and then tested one XDF/BIN at a time vs. TunerPro to make sure everything displays properly, checksums get recalculated, etc. It seems to me the only people with a grasp on all these details are the handful of folks still selling GM OBD1 products commercially.
This project is maybe a way to maybe return OBD1 tuning to the enthusiast, so to speak, and spark some exciting new stuff. Now imagine all this capability for less than cost of a retail ALDL cable or EPROM burner.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
But EBL is a closed product. A VERY fine product - which I use in one of my own vehicles - but its not open. If you want to hack the hardware to control some external lighting relays, or modify the WUD software to drive that, its not going to happen. Nor am I interested in driving away someone's business by cloning their device and offering it for free.
With this project, the hardware design and software would be open and belong to everyone. If someone wants tuning software for their Windows Phone, they could use the source code as a starting point rather than reinventing the wheel from scratch, for example. I want set a starting point for future experimentation that will take us through the next 10 years, I guess. This a very exciting time for people who like to tinker with code and hardware.
One thing I realize as I develop this is that a lot of the effort than went into hacking these GM ECMs started out relatively open - people sharing information and code, but time has caused a lot of this information to become lost, and its very difficult to piece some of it back together here in 2014. Getting the 160 baud data stream working, for example, proved fairly challenging because the info that was probably all over the web 10 years ago is now gone. The 8192 stream is certainly much easier to deal with with modern hardware but the 160 bps stuff is a little strange. The Android bin editor was also a challenge because a specification for the various ADF/XDF formats simply doesn't exist so it all has to be reverse engineered and then tested one XDF/BIN at a time vs. TunerPro to make sure everything displays properly, checksums get recalculated, etc. It seems to me the only people with a grasp on all these details are the handful of folks still selling GM OBD1 products commercially.
This project is maybe a way to maybe return OBD1 tuning to the enthusiast, so to speak, and spark some exciting new stuff. Now imagine all this capability for less than cost of a retail ALDL cable or EPROM burner.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
Last edited by jdarg; Jan 9, 2014 at 03:42 PM.
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