paintballer687

To start off, I have a 1991 Firebird with the 305 TBI, L03 I believe?

Okay, so I pull up to my house and remember I forgot to get coffee. I go to start my car again and it seems like it doesn't have enough power to start, which is a constant concern due to the sound system and no cap. I stop trying to start it, turn off the headlights, pull off the deck faceplate, and try again. You know that infamous sound, when you incorrectly shut down a computer or in movies when an entire control center shuts down, its like... 'pewwww...'... well it made that sound.

The next thing I notice are the few wisps of smoke; I pop the hood and run out and see a wire (near the top, middle of the engine bay closest to the windsheild) has caught on fire. I blow it out, close the hood, and jump back in the car. Usually when I turn the key to the On position, I can hear the fan turn on, now it doesn't. When I try to start it, nothing happens. The Brake light still comes on and the rest of the electronics work.

Also, the night before I pulled the two silver rectangular fuses from the fuse box (being retarded thinking they were flashers) and may have switched the two by accident. I can't find where I left my Chilton's so I don't know what they were for, if they were even different rated fuses, and if it's relevant.

So, anyone have any idea what could have happened?

Thanks

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

not a fuse. Fusible link most likely, they're designed to fizzle and burn up like that, its an old school fuse.

On the other hand i dont know for sure if it is a fusible link, they dont normally catch fire and flame up.... did it look like a normal 16AWG wire? or was it a bit thicker with little blocks on each side?

NINÅ

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paintballer687

Okay, I checked it out and took a couple pictures. What burned was some kind of flat braided cable (pictured) that was grounded to the body. I'm assuming this is the fusible link. My Chilton's guide tells me there are four fusible links on the car:

1. A molded splice at the starter solenoid Bat terminal, a 14 gauge red wire.
2. A 16 gauge red fusible link at the junction block to protect the unfused wiring of 12 gauge or larger wire. This link stops at the bulkhead connector.
3. The alternator warning light and field circuitry is protected by a 20 gauge red wire fusible link used in the battery feed-to-voltage regulator number 3 terminal. The link is installed as a molded splice in the circuit at the junction block.
4. The ammeter circuit is protected by two 20 gauge fusible links installed as molded splices in the circuit at the junction block and battery to starter circuit.

I'm guessing this is the first? Do I just need to go to Kragen and get another 14 gauge fusible link and some connectors and reground the cable? What caused this to happen in the first place?

50bmgshooter

iTrader: (4)

nope thats a ground strap if that burnt off you have a major short some were else

paintballer687

Great... Where exactly does that ground strap connect to? The lights and stereo and everything works, when I turn the key to On position all the gauges move and when I go to start the needles of the gauges drop and it doesn't try to start or make a noise or anything. Usually when they key is in the on position the fan goes on and it's not going on now. How should I go about trying to fix this short?

paintballer687

I don't know for fact that's what was burning either... I just blew out the flame and when I went back to look what caught fire there was no apparent fire damage, is there a chance the ground strap was previously disconnected?

paintballer687

I called a friend who runs a local auto shop and he said it sounded like it could just be a bad ground or it could be a short. I called another friend and he said to check the starter and see if the coil is hot. Would anything starter/solenoid related prevent the fan from turning on before the car is started?

crmmaj9

Just a thought.... Have you checked the positive battery cable going to the starter? Sometimes they will come loose and lay on the exaust until the exaust manifold burns the insulation off the wireand it will ground out and fry your ground strap connected to the motor. And a replacment ground strap don't cost much in the Help! section at the auto parts store. I wish you the best... Happy Camaro-ing!!!

paintballer687

Okay... so I had a friend come look at it and here's what's new...

The ground strap was corroded and previously broken and was not what was burning. After closer examination there were no burned wires at all. When trying to start the car the starter would click once or twice so he suggested trying to jump the car. Hooking up the generator made the clicking faster so I decided to have the battery charged at Kragen. Half way through they tell me the battery is no good so I head to Costco and swap mine for a new one. After hooking up the new battery, when trying to start the car there was rapid clicking but nothing more.

So... I guess it's got to be something to do with the starter? Especially since there's no burned wires and starters are capable of starting fires? Does this sound at all fitting with what you suggested, crmmaj9? Anyone have any ideas from this point on?

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

pull your starter. id bench test it its possible that the armature may have gotten hung up on one of the pole shoes, binding the starter, causing it to draw too much amperage making whatever wire draw WAY too much current and burn up. if the armature got hung up then that would cause it to ground through the pole shoes that lead to ground. Causing a high amperage short that may just have enough power to make that ground strap go up in smoke

pull it and bench test it. just hook it up to a jump pack and see if it kicks out like it should. Test the solenoid as well.

if thats the case you will need a new starter, and need to find that wire because when they heat up they build resistance im willing to bet its about as useful as a 24 gauge wire at this point

it wouldnt surprise to be honest, our cars are pushing 20yrs old in most cases, and our starters arent exactly gonna last forever afterall the armature only rides on bushings, not bearings so they may have just worn down so far that the clearances between the armature and the pole shoes got to close, and just sucked it into it. THe starter is spun by opposing magnetic fields in the shoes if i remember correctly, change that clearance and it wont spin, just magnetize and get stuck causing that clicking sound and killing your battery

50bmgshooter

iTrader: (4)

also replace that ground strap.
the motor might not have a good enough ground right now and that might be contributing to the prob.

crmmaj9

I agree completely with both master_disaster and shooter.
GETERDONE!!!

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

this is why i love the boards, helps me get better at diagnosis by using the theory of operation to back up the malfunctions lol