I'm new here, so go easy. I couldn't really find anything similar to my situation, so I'll just ask ..

I just got my 91 firebird with the engine and transmission out of the car. This is my project car. My door key doesn't open up the rear hatch ... and there wiring harness in the engine bay is all disconnected.

How can I go about opening up the rear hatch without a key? Can I get a key for it and then open it? Where can I get a key for it? Can a dealership cut me a key?

I legally own the car, so there's nothing to worry about there ... she's nicely tucked away in my garage engineless.

What would happen if I reconnect my battery to the disconnected harness, and guard the positive wires so they don't short, and see if the dash lights up. What's the worst that would happen? I wont damage anything by doing that, will I?

I think the ECM is still all connected and intact, just the engine bay harness is disconnected. Nothing appears to be damaged on the harness, so the worst that would happen is an extremely confused ECM.

How could I hot wire the hatch release solenoid to pop the hatch without plugging in the whole harness?
Any help is appreciated

 

Wish I could help, Will BUMP for you, good luck hope you get a answer.

 

Thanks I appreciate it!

Bump. Anybody have ideas?

TLDR of OP:
Key wont open hatch, engine removed from car and everything's disconnected - can't power the hatch release. I want to hot-wire the hatch release to look in the trunk.

 

hooking the battery up wont do much since theres no starter in the car. the main power wire runs from the battery to the post on the starter, then all the main power feed wires for the interior run from that post to the driverside bulkhead connector. you can just hook those power wires to the battery to get power to the interior of the car and see if hatch release switch works.

 

My negative battery cable is also gone ... think if I tack a ground to the chassis where the engine normally is, the hatch release will find enough ground to work?

 

you can ground the battery directly to the chassis through an existing bolt hole, no need to weld anything.

 

Without power, if you can get into the back of the car, you can open the hatch from the inside. Pull the cargo light out of the plastic trim at the latch, this will expose the latch mechanism. Shine a flashlight on the mechanism and you'll see a slot which can be turned with a good sized flat screwdriver. Once open, the hatch won't shut again without power.

 

Okay. hah I didn't really mean weld it on, rather touch the wire to the chassis and adhere with tape

Unfortunately, I cannot even see into the rear of the trunk. There seems to be a cargo cover type cloth that's over the trunk area. I'll see if I can get a picture tomorrow for you. I have no physical access to the inside of the trunk from any way afaik. My boss is a hobbiest locksmith, I could probably con him into picking the lock for me, but my car's butt is backed into the wall of my garage, so I'd have to shove the car forward to be able to get back there ...

I'd rather see if I can get juice flowing to the car before I go to that extreme. It's not like I even need to get into the trunk right now, but it's my new play toy and I've never seen what's inside the trunk. The car's really unmolested, so I'm interested to see what's back there. Original T-Top cover maybe? build sheet? dealer receipt? Lots of nothing? Who knows.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll see what I can do about connecting my battery to the car and seeing what happens. I suppose I should get a battery first ..

 

The rear seats do fold down, and the cargo shade is easy enough to move out of the way, or just squeeze under it as you'd only need to crawl in up to about your waist - it can be tight even without the shade

 

Well, as per your suggestion, I got into my trunk today and was able to get the rear seat folded, laid belly down on the seat and got the cargo cover unhooked and it zipped out of the way no problems.

I got the light pulled out and found this:


I figured this was the large screw you were talking about, so I turned it with a super long screwdriver and it sounded like the hatch popped, but when I got out to lift on it, it was still stuck closed. So ... I climbed back in and tried turning it more, with no results. So I turned it the other way, and still nothing.

So I am at a loss here ... Suggestions? If I'm out of luck with this, I'll have to wait till I get time to get the battery rigged up to try the electrical release solenoid.

In other news, with the cargo cover out of the way, first thing I found in the trunk was the original T-Top leather bag, a set of original sun shades, and this weather stripping thingy.

Here's some pictures of the highlights of what I found in there:

One of the sunshades that was inside of the T-Top bag:


One of two pictures of the set of instructions for the sun shades that was also inside the bag #1:


The other half of the instructions #2:


Here's a shot of the other sun shade that is still in the bag with the ORIGINAL plastic that the shades came in:


Here's a picture of the weather strip thing that was back there:


Here's a shot of the label. Says it was ordered in '05:


Awesome stuff! There's also what looks like wads of receipts back there, so once I get the trunk open, I can get a better idea of how it was treated before it got retired ...

Based on what I could gather, the guy I got it from knew the original owner, who ended up blowing the engine up and letting it set at his mechanic's shop for an unknown ammount of time ... then it came into the guy who I got it from, it say again for a few more years till he got tired of it.

So now it's mine. I think I'll end up going for an as stock restore of this car as I can get it.

EDIT: Come to think of it, that screw was sorta hard to turn at first. I wonder if the latch was just frozen up ... I'll try my key again, now that the latch is freed up(?).

 

that weatherstripping piece looks like a t-top drip edge.

 

I'm curious. My T-Tops appear to be plexiglass, while it looks like other people's T-Tops are made of glass, like my brother's 4th gen Camaro's are. Are my T-Tops after market replacements? They're certainly lighter than the 4th gen ones are ..

Just curious.

 

bump

@Al Hasse Got any ideas? I tried what you said to do. Didn't seem to release the hatch. I'll run out and check the latch with my key now that it feels like the latch is freed up. I'll just updated this post with my results.

EDIT: Well still no go. I climbed back in there, turned that screw a few more times, and tried the key and there wasn't anything other than a few grunts from myself leaning onto the trunk thing in an uncomfortable way.

I was able to retrieve my screwdriver this time though. Last time I dropped it into the trunk.

 

Okay then, I'll go on with the battery thing. Would a battery charger be good enough? I put my amp meter on the particular charger I have, and it isn't really the cleanest DC power I've seen .... I think with the charger I'd be more likely to fry something with the nasty fluctuations in the power than I would with using a half dead battery.

I'll have to wait until the brakes on my truck are fixed before I can try powering the car up though ... cause my truck has the only working battery I own in it.

 

battery charger will be fine, you just need enough juice to pop the hatch.

 

Alright then, that makes it a bit easier. My truck is at the shop ... I couldn't get it finished before the weekend, so this actually makes things a bit easier too.

I'll let ya know what happens

 

No go on the battery charger. I tried hooking up the ground to the chassis, body, suspension, you name it. No go on getting anything to light up. Not even the dome light. I'm thinking the grounds that connect the accessories to the chassis is disconnected or missing. The parking lights didn't even work.

So ... my next option is to try to jumper the wires going to the back of the switch, which I just finished removing, and seeing if I can get it to pop.

 

Looks like I'll need to find a ground on the hatch somewhere. Cause the solenoid grounds to the hatch/body ... so. Power the black wire inside the car with a battery, or my charger, and touch the ground to something metal on the outside of the hatch, or the inside under a trim panel somewhere ...

Sounds great.

 

from that diagram the hatch release sol is already grounded to the body. so yea all youd have to do is ground the battery charger to the body then apply power to the black wire to pop it.

 

I just now noticed that the black wire I'm thinking of, is on the relay socket ... any clue as to where the relay is? I ask without looking, so if it's somewhere super obvious ... lol

The black wire I had in my brain would be the black wire off of the switch, which is just for the light ...

 

if you get power to the acc circuit via the fuse in the fuseblock, you could use the switch to pop it. im sure a 9v battery with a bit of wire and a spade connector would get enough juice on the circuit to pop it. if you cant get it to pop with the switch, you could power the acc circuit then apply power to the brown wire off the switch

 

By the looks of it, wouldn't I want to ground the brown wire, and power the orange ACC fuse wire? Power flows from ACC, through the coil in the resistor, pulling the relay switch to also power the black wire. After the relay coil, it grounds through the park swith/gear selector switch.

Okay I think I've got it. I'm super super busy with schoolwork, but when I get around to it I'll post a picture and let you know.

 

you can do it that way, if you can find and access the hatch relay, which i dont think you can with the plastics in the way...

 

I think I would keep trying different grounds in the engine compartment untill you found one that grounded the dome light. The hatch switch should be on a constant 12 volts so if you found the ground in the body harness under the hood it should pop???? The screw you are staring at thru that hole looks to be the screw that holds the latch solenoid to the latch??? I would try to find the ground to that circut and power it up vs. tearing things apart. On second thought, the latch and tailights are grounded at the same point behind the rear compartment panel. Being non-molested I am sure that is hooked up. I would still search for the power circut in the engine compartment? Should be where the starter was on the passenger side lower? Look at all of the wires you have and make sure none of them are touching each other and/or metal . Be careful! Nice find. Sure wouls love those T-Top shades.

 

Thanks for the reply!

Now, what I did was just power up the positive battery cable, and leave the wires that go to the starter stud alone. Should I connect my charger to the three(four?) wires that go onto the starter terminal? I'm decently sure I can get a good ground somewhere. I'm starting to wonder if my problem was that I didn't have good power getting to all the right wires.

It is very unmolested! I talked to the PO about it (he's my buddy) and he was telling me about how well the car was taken care of, and how it was owned by a middle aged/older driver versus a teenager. I'm excited to start driving this thing. I just don't have time to put an engine in it yet. Busy with college and all.

 

that is correct sir. you need power to those wires. they are what provide power to the cabin.

 

are they disconnected from the starter atm?

 

There is no engine in the car currently. The starter's in a tub underneath my work bench, so no, it aint connected lol.

The entire engine harness is disconnected. I'll slap the charger onto that little group of wires and see if I can make it go that way. I wasn't sure about the wiring in the car, so I just put it on the main cable last time.

btw, I got me an excellent condition dealership service manual from Ebay, so I can find some great info in there ... An excelent piece to go with my unmolested firebird

 

yea those service manuals are great. ive got one that came with the car, but over the years its started falling apart

 

Double check the Acc fuse. It may have popped. You are gonna have to power up the cabin. The latch is gonna have to see 12 volts and you may need to go as far as hitting the brown wire on the hatch switch once the cabin has power ( I doubt it ). you could also run ground to the rear bumper ( metal ) or body panel since the system is grounded back there. Shouldnt be any different than grounding to the inner fender though. I am sure with the manual you have you will be able to figure out what wire will power up the fuse box. Chase the wires from the bulk head to the starter area. Bound to be one of those???

 

Just got to work and pulled up the wiring. At the starter it is going to be the Purple wire. from there it goes thru the P.R.N.D.L. switch in the console at the gear selector. from there to the switch and then to the relay. The relay also has to see power from the Accesory fuse side.
Once you trip the switch from the diagram the relay is giving the soleoid a ground signal to pop it.

So what I would do is hook up 12 volts to the purple wire that goes to the starter, Hook the ground to the body. Check to make sure you have 12 volts to the accesory fuse. If you do , the latch should pop. If you dont have power to the fuse you could always run a hot wire directly to the fuse terminal and pop it!

This is set up for an automatic transmission.

 

the purple wire gets power when you turn the key to start the car, its what trips the solenoid to spin the starter. hooking 12v to the purple wire wont accomplish anything. you need to get power to the OTHER wires that bolt to the starter, should be like 3 wires with ring terminals, one ring terminal should have 2 wires on it. hook the charger to those 3 wires, ground on the body and you should get power in the cabin.

 

I'll just grab a screw and nut and screw all of the starter wires together, and put my charger onto the screw. Problem solved. I'll just power up all the wires I can.

I haven't had a chance to study my service manual too much, but I have access to alldata, chilton and Mitchel's ondemand5, so that's what I've been using.

I'll try to find time for it today, and get back on here and let ya know.

 

Well I got the fog lights to work, the buzzer, the dash lights and the security light to work. Even the power mirrors (I noticed this cause I was leaning on the button lol). No go on the hatch release though. At one point, I heard the relay click when I pushed the button, but other than that, no go. I have as many grounds tied in as I can get them, but I think I'll need to get another wire and run it all the way back to the trunk to get it to work. Just touch the wire to the batch or rear fender somewhere.

Don't know if I'll have time to do it for a bit, so stay tuned.

 

Hey I'm curious ... would my Firebird take a dual electric cooling fan, single electric cooling fan, or a engine mounted viscus clutch cooling fan, like what I have on my chevy truck?

The car has no radiator, shroud, or fan. Any ideas as to where the best place to get one would be?

 

all of the above, as long as you get the required pieces for the application and a little creative work. stock for the 305 tbi was the single electric fan though.

 

Any news on gettin the hatch open??

 

Awesome. Looks like I can buy a fan from autozone. I'll look around the local salvage yards before I buy one though.

Nope, haven't touched the car since my last update. Been super busy with school/work/life. English Composition 2 is a real pain in the a**.

 

I'll try to work on this tomorrow ... stay tuned.

 

Well ... I didn't get to do anything because of this nasty drizzly weather. So ... perhaps Friday, or Saturday I'll be able to do something.

 

I'm retro-fitting a power release. Wire is there in trunk and plug to release switch but where exactly is that relay supposed to be??!! I've pulled off the panel under the map pocket but don't see a relay. If the car didn't originally have power release is the relay not installed? Is the plug for it still there somewhere?

 

Theres a relay in the trunk, under the plastic panel to the left. The big main middle one. A small one. Then theres a big one right under the switch under the console. Thats where mine are at. Good luck!

 

Took a few other threads and some panel removal and digging but finally found it!! In the '91 at least the plug is tucked up beside the ecm. Once you know where to find the under dash relay this is a really easy upgrade.

 

My 92 came with it. =} no modding necessary. =}

 

It looks like a few guys have put alot of thought into solving this problem. I just rebuilt the rear hatch pull down mechanism on my 87 IROCZ a few weeks ago and maybe you can benefit from my experience. The key lock cylinder is connected to the latch mechanism by a cable as I remember. It seems like if you can get to the lever that this cable acts upon through the light opening and pull on it, you should be able to release the latch. I believe that this is what Al Hasse was referring to. In your photo, I think the lever is on the left side of the bright metal assembly. The stem in the center of the bright metal, that looks a little like a big screw head, is the pin that the latch rotates on. Turning this won't do anything. I guess you figured that out.

I found great tech articles on rebuilding the pull down. Both here on TGO and through Google. The photos in these articles may help you recognize what you're looking at through the hear deck light opening.

 

So here's an update ...

Just got a Chevy 383 to put in my Firebird with an Edlebrock performer intake, heads, cam and carb. I just have to build the engine, fix an issue with the lifters, and put it in.

As many of you can guess, I haven't touched the hatch release in quite some time. Plus with it being cold out now, there's a less likely chance of me doing that now these days.

I guess I'll just work on this engine, and see how it all pans out after I get the engine in the car and all setup. I'll worry about what's in the trunk after the engine is in and the wiring harness is all connected to where it needs to go.

 

you could always try a 12 volt jumper to the lighter socket, that may power the interior. just a thought.

 

Well guys here's an update. I got the trunk latch to pop by going in through the black wire off of the relay, and grounding to my door latch. As it turns out, there's some Pontiac papers in the little cargo box that were water damaged, so now I'll need new trunk seals in addition to new T-Top seals and door seals ... :|

So the relay was tucked up under the passenger side dash behind the map pocket/glove box. I ended up removing the lower dash panel, the center trim piece, unbolting the vin E style ECM (or 1991 TBI engine), a yellow module. It was still wrapped in its factory noise dampening foam blanket! So was the large bus connector. It was all tucked up in there so nicely, it makes me feel special for having such a nice factory original car

Here's the wiring diagram I went off of, plus help from the factory service manual for location information and another wiring diagram:

 

A couple of tidbits to add to this discussion. The hatch release solenoid is NOT grounded to the body by the 10mm screw that attaches it to the latch assy. It is electrically isolated from ground by the guides in the track. There is a separate groudn wire that attaches to the 10mm screw that mounts the solenoid to the latch assy. The other end of the groud wire attaches to the body ground location below the hatch pull-down unit. Second, there is a large gauge black wire with a black connrector on the end that plugs into the end of the hatch release solenoid. That black wire is the hot wire to energize the solenoid. All you'd need to do is trace that black wire from the rear of the car until you can get access to it, carefully cut into the insulation and supply +12 v to it. Yes a battery charger is plenty of power to pop the hatch release solenoid.

Lon