When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Hey guys, I am having trouble with my door power lock switches...I was reading on here that if the over head light does not come on it could be a blown relay...both switches do not work...looking for ACC relay location on 87 IROC.
Check the ACC fuse. If it's blown and blows again when replaced I can tell you the likely suspect.
Henry
Thanks! If it blows again what would be the likely suspect?...Also my horn does not work. So in short my left side mirror control switch does not work...low beams does not work, high and all other lights work. Dome light does not come on when opening the door, and rear hatch lock does not work when trying to put down hatch...have not checked cigar lighter yet...and the power locks do not work...
Last edited by jeremyb1988; 04-17-2017 at 11:48 PM.
Accessories. Often the lighter socket grounds out blowing the ACC fuse that
causes the horn, door locks, dome light, and third brake light and maybe more, I forget, not to work. If the fuse blows you can unplug the connector on the back of the lighter and everything else should work now with a good fuse. Make sure you carefully keep the lighter plug from touching anything. That orange wire is always hot
I normally find change in the lighter socket as the reason for that blown fuse.
It'd be a bit odd to find change in the lighter socket on a Camaro, being in the dash and all... :P Seems like the corroded dime/penny is standard equipment in every used Firebird however.
My 83 Camaro, once upon a few times in the 90's would blow the fuse just from the cigarette light element grounding it out. New socket and element fixed it.
It'd be a bit odd to find change in the lighter socket on a Camaro, being in the dash and all... :P Seems like the corroded dime/penny is standard equipment in every used Firebird however.
My 83 Camaro, once upon a few times in the 90's would blow the fuse just from the cigarette light element grounding it out. New socket and element fixed it.
So essentially I would need to possibly have a new socket and element, then buy a new fuse for it, and that may work?
It'd be a bit odd to find change in the lighter socket on a Camaro, being in the dash and all... :P Seems like the corroded dime/penny is standard equipment in every used Firebird however.
My 83 Camaro, once upon a few times in the 90's would blow the fuse just from the cigarette light element grounding it out. New socket and element fixed it.
This ACC fuse...its located just behind the dash somewhere...to the right or left?
Pretty sure you'll find it under the dash to the left of the steering column, there's a little plastic door marked FUSES that you can pull down, or at least that's how it is in my car. It's a yellow 20 fuse marked ACC in the middle column towards the right. You'll see it
It'd be a bit odd to find change in the lighter socket on a Camaro, being in the dash and all... :P Seems like the corroded dime/penny is standard equipment in every used Firebird however.
Kids put things in very odd things is all I will say.
Pretty sure you'll find it under the dash to the left of the steering column, there's a little plastic door marked FUSES that you can pull down, or at least that's how it is in my car. It's a yellow 20 fuse marked ACC in the middle column towards the right. You'll see it
Hey thanks! I'll look at it tomorrow morning. Man everyone has been really helpful and nice on this forum site. Seems like there are some real car guys on here for sure
So essentially I would need to possibly have a new socket and element, then buy a new fuse for it, and that may work?
Maybe. The way I'd narrow it down, would be to remove possibilities. For example, remove the element, does the fuse still pop? Unplug the socket, does the fuse pop? Etc. I wouldnt say just replace it all and see, but in my case thats what I did eventually, with freebie junkyard parts.
Yeah...well I'll check the fuse tomorrow morning, hopefully its blow...then I will just to be on the safe side disconnect the cigar lighter and go from there. I'll keep you guys updated and let you know what I find.
Hey guys well good news the fuse is not blown and the cigar lighter works just fine. Okay, so my power locks DO have power to them. Its just the locks dont open all the way, but when I try both doors you can hear them working...my horn does not work. High beam and low beam work fine...courtesy lamp works fine as well. Anyone have any ideas on the horn not working? Isnt there a relay for that? You knows know the location of that relay?
my horn does not work. Anyone have any ideas on the horn not working? Isnt there a relay for that? You knows know the location of that relay?
Yep there's a relay in the inconvenience center. It's opposite the fuse block, to the right of the steering column. There are two little plastic tabs, squeeze them and it swings down. The horn relay is the white or black cube about the size of a pool cue chalk. But it's more likely the horn button in the steering wheel cap, the wire from the cap to the cancel cam, or even just the horns themselves have locked up from age.
Try running a jumper cable from the tab on the horn to the positive battery cable to see if the horn works. Common sense applies, don't short the battery to anything else metal, blah blah.
If you press the horn button, you can usually hear the relay click if you listen closely.
Yep there's a relay in the inconvenience center. It's opposite the fuse block, to the right of the steering column. There are two little plastic tabs, squeeze them and it swings down. The horn relay is the white or black cube about the size of a pool cue chalk. But it's more likely the horn button in the steering wheel cap, the wire from the cap to the cancel cam, or even just the horns themselves have locked up from age.
Try running a jumper cable from the tab on the horn to the positive battery cable to see if the horn works. Common sense applies, don't short the battery to anything else metal, blah blah.
If you press the horn button, you can usually hear the relay click if you listen closely.
I have to ask.... What did it play?
thanks! I'll try that...so like I noticed on the steering wheel cap at the bottom leftish I believe it looks like something sharp is trying to poke thru it??? Is that cap easy to take off...what you just twist it off or pop it off? Thanks a lot for your help btw, its helping a lot lol
Yep there's a relay in the inconvenience center. It's opposite the fuse block, to the right of the steering column. There are two little plastic tabs, squeeze them and it swings down. The horn relay is the white or black cube about the size of a pool cue chalk. But it's more likely the horn button in the steering wheel cap, the wire from the cap to the cancel cam, or even just the horns themselves have locked up from age.
Try running a jumper cable from the tab on the horn to the positive battery cable to see if the horn works. Common sense applies, don't short the battery to anything else metal, blah blah.
If you press the horn button, you can usually hear the relay click if you listen closely.
I have to ask.... What did it play?
So found the issue...wow. I popped of the hood button and someone had glued/zip tied it on there, and there looks to be something inside the hole to the left...I guess where the contact wiring harness goes into? Is it possible that harness is deep inside that hole, and or if I have to get to the harness does that mean I have to take the steering column apart? I cant see the yellow harness thats for sure!
Well... hmm... Ok, round 'leather' horn button with the camaro logo in the middle, right? When you popped it off, is the plate with the tabs that clip into the center of the wheel still there? It's the one with a single yellow or black wire clipped to it?
This is probably a good time to mention that the horn button used on Z28s (including Irocs) tends to break. Originally there are three plastic pins that the mounting plate (also serves as one half of the horn switch) sits on, then the factory melted the pins so they act as a rivet to hold the plate to the button. The melted plastic tends to fail, by cracking away, etc then the horn button falls off. The easiest fix for that is to drop the plate back on whats left of the pins, and apply a 1/4" dab of epoxy on top of the pins. After it cures, the epoxy is generally stronger than OE.
If you're horn button is broken or missing parts, that would be a likely cause of problems.
This isn't the best example, because it's a Firebird horn button, but it should give you the basic idea... When the horn button is pushed, the two metal rings touch, and the horn blows.
Hey guys thanks! Okay so this may help. So its missing the yellow contact harness, and basically the actually cap part and the round metal part looks like it was glued. But like I said theres not yellow harness!
Yep. The cancel cam is a frequent fail point because it's got that tiny hook at the end, which likes to break just from age and the spring pressure. Replacing it is a mild pain in the butt, it takes a lock plate compressor and steering wheel puller. Most auto parts stores have them hanging on a peg with the other HELP! or PANIC! or "Help me Dorman, you're my only hope" or whatever they've calling it now, section.
Seems for whatever reason on Camaros it's a yellow wire, Firebirds it's a black wire, doesn't really matter as long as it's there to complete the circuit. Depending on the condition of your horn button, it's possible you'll still have a problem even after replacing the cam and wire. How bad do you want a horn? A normal person might not consider it worth the trouble to fix, but most of us aren't exactly normal.
I didnt know until now you can post photos from your desktop to here! Tomorrow after work I'll try and post some photos for you guys and show you the current car situation if you guys are having problems getting the jist of all this.
Yep. The cancel cam is a frequent fail point because it's got that tiny hook at the end, which likes to break just from age and the spring pressure. Replacing it is a mild pain in the butt, it takes a lock plate compressor and steering wheel puller. Most auto parts stores have them hanging on a peg with the other HELP! or PANIC! or "Help me Dorman, you're my only hope" or whatever they've calling it now, section.
Seems for whatever reason on Camaros it's a yellow wire, Firebirds it's a black wire, doesn't really matter as long as it's there to complete the circuit. Depending on the condition of your horn button, it's possible you'll still have a problem even after replacing the cam and wire. How bad do you want a horn? A normal person might not consider it worth the trouble to fix, but most of us aren't exactly normal.
Hey thanks for the reply...well I have no problem buying a new horn. Question though...so the CAM...is that the spring on the wire in the pic I posted on here?...it seems that goes into the plastic hole insert on the one piece. Is this a tough job? I dont have airbags...I was under the impression that the yellow harness just went inside the plastic insert piece without you having to pull the steering wheel off and then it gets attached to the horn...when I pull of the horn I can see the little hole to the left that the yellow harness looks like it goes into to make contact with. Its a flat brass piece just inside the hole...I was assuming that the yellow wire and spring just kind coiled into a circle and stayed inside the outer hub area of the steering column...if that makes sense....I honestly looked all through my factory shop manual and couldnt find how to fix this thing...maybe its in a different manual...so weird...
Okay guys well I ran outside and took pics...so see the top left corner...looks like that plastic insert...is that what the yellow end goes INTO and makes contact with the flat brass part at the bottom of that???
Last edited by jeremyb1988; 04-19-2017 at 09:19 PM.
They show where the wire goes. The cancel cam, where the horn wire clips in, also has a couple bumps that act on the turn signal switch to cancel the turn signal. Hence the name "turn signal cancel cam." Changing it is a pain, like I said. The steering wheel, and the first layer of GM column Hell known as the "lock plate" have to come off before you cam remove the cam. Both the wheel and lock plate require special tools, and you'll get to pry a round snap ring out of a deep groove. Lots of fun.
I got it man! I guess I just didnt figure I would have to take off the steering wheel and and the first layer GM column...this may be a job for my well trusted mechanic over 9 years lol. Steve heres my credit card, fix it and call me when its done brotha lol
Your horn button is horked and was glued back together with missing pieces, and upside down. Looks like the cancel cam is broken too. Abandon hope. Use middle finger or boat canned air horn.
Edit: Sorry that seems harsh. It's just that unbroken Z28 horn buttons are hard to come by, reproductions aren't cheap. You need the horn button, the wire, and a cancel cam (Dorman 83232), a steering wheel puller, a lock plate tool, and a bit of patience... All for a feature most people seldom use. Unless you need it to pass some kind of inspection, it's probably not worth fixing right away.
Your horn button is horked and was glued back together with missing pieces, and upside down. Looks like the cancel cam is broken too. Abandon hope. Use middle finger or boat canned air horn.
No no no Im reading...I'm getting a new horn from Camaro Central soon...I have to fix the horn for safety inspection...I'm just asking if I buy the new horn...with the new yellow harness because that is missing and not present...where does that harness go into? Will I have to take apart the 1st layer column assembly like you mentioned before...this horn will be fixed...I'm just trying to see how the wire goes and where it goes into...I wish I could find this task in the maintenance manual I have ugh! Does the harness feed up thru the steering column or just plug into that plastic insert I mentioned...if it just plugs into that this is an easy fix...see what I mean?
Last edited by jeremyb1988; 04-19-2017 at 09:42 PM.
Your horn button is horked and was glued back together with missing pieces, and upside down. Looks like the cancel cam is broken too. Abandon hope. Use middle finger or boat canned air horn.
Edit: Sorry that seems harsh. It's just that unbroken Z28 horn buttons are hard to come by, reproductions aren't cheap. You need the horn button, the wire, and a cancel cam (Dorman 83232), a steering wheel puller, a lock plate tool, and a bit of patience... All for a feature most people seldom use. Unless you need it to pass some kind of inspection, it's probably not worth fixing right away.
I dont think I need the cancel cam, that plastic piece looks in tact...I'll so the brass flat piece I see inside the plastic hole of the Cancel cam...is that where the harness end broke off maybe???
You need to replace the cancel cam. The hook that holds the horn wire is broken.
I posted a pic in reply #23 showing a horn wire clipped into a cancel cam, with the hook that is visibly broken in your photo. Just scroll up and look at the photo. Here, I'll make it easy and embed the photo again right here.
Imagine that black horn wire is yellow. My camera doesn't do close up photos well, so you probably can't see there's a peg on the black sleeve that goes in the cancel cam. The peg lines up with the notch in the cam, you push the sleeve in to compress the spring, and twist it to catch the peg under the hook in the cam. 20+ year old brittle plastic, with a spring pushing against it, and people that don't know how to disassemble stuff without just ripping it apart, lead to a LOT of broken cancel cams. I've replaced many of them.
Also in that pic (note that the steering wheel is already removed) you can see how the cancel cam is under the lock plate. And if you look closely at the steering shaft you can see the lock plate snap ring that has to be pried out of a groove to remove the plate. What you can't see is that the lock plate has a large spring behind it that presses against the steering shaft bearing. A lock plate compressor tool is required to compress that spring while you hook the snap ring with a small screwdriver, or awl, etc. Once the snap ring is out of it's groove, you release the lock plate tool, slip off the lock plate, and you can slip off the cancel cam. Then the lock plate goes back on, and the snap ring, compress the lock plate with the tool, and slide the snap ring back down into it's groove. The key here is to not break the stub on the new cancel cam while it's going back together.
If you've never been in a GM column, the first time is a bit tedious. Difficulty level is actually really low, as long as you invest in the proper tools and utilize patience.
You need to replace the cancel cam. The hook that holds the horn wire is broken.
I posted a pic in reply #23 showing a horn wire clipped into a cancel cam, with the hook that is visibly broken in your photo. Just scroll up and look at the photo. Here, I'll make it easy and embed the photo again right here.
Imagine that black horn wire is yellow. My camera doesn't do close up photos well, so you probably can't see there's a peg on the black sleeve that goes in the cancel cam. The peg lines up with the notch in the cam, you push the sleeve in to compress the spring, and twist it to catch the peg under the hook in the cam. 20+ year old brittle plastic, with a spring pushing against it, and people that don't know how to disassemble stuff without just ripping it apart, lead to a LOT of broken cancel cams. I've replaced many of them.
Also in that pic (note that the steering wheel is already removed) you can see how the cancel cam is under the lock plate. And if you look closely at the steering shaft you can see the lock plate snap ring that has to be pried out of a groove to remove the plate. What you can't see is that the lock plate has a large spring behind it that presses against the steering shaft bearing. A lock plate compressor tool is required to compress that spring while you hook the snap ring with a small screwdriver, or awl, etc. Once the snap ring is out of it's groove, you release the lock plate tool, slip off the lock plate, and you can slip off the cancel cam. Then the lock plate goes back on, and the snap ring, compress the lock plate with the tool, and slide the snap ring back down into it's groove. The key here is to not break the stub on the new cancel cam while it's going back together.
If you've never been in a GM column, the first time is a bit tedious. Difficulty level is actually really low, as long as you invest in the proper tools and utilize patience.
Dude your awesome...well I bought ALL the parts I need off Camaro Central...I actually found a 1994 in the box GM steering wheel cap from them for 300 that I believe comes with the contact harness as well! I bought an extra just in case. I also bought the cam you were talking about...I think I can do it by myself and I do believe I remember running across the task in the shop manual I have for it...so I'll look at the manual first...if it seems beyond my skill level, I'll think hard about doing it on my own. If I don't feel I can do it on my own, I'll send it to my mechanic and brief him on exactly what you guys have said. The car was going to him anyways to get a tune up and what not done and a really through head to toe look over. I can do small things on the car...but its easy to get in over your head and mess things up more than they already are. The irony...I'm an electrician and mechanic on apache helicopters for 11 years now. Can do that stuff blind folded but my mechanic skills don't correlate to cars all the time...surprisingly our aircraft are actually in many ways a lot easier to work on than these cars and the directions are extremely detailed so a monkey can do it lol. Plus its different when you break govt stuff...they pay for it, you break your stuff I pay for it lol. Thanks again for your help...at the very least you guys saved me some LABOR cost money and I can tell my mechanic EXACTLY where to go and with yalls directions it cant do anything but help more! I'll look at the task tonight or tomorrow and evaluate from there. I do well with pics haha
Yeah feel free to call me stupid at any point. It's the factory shop manual...basically just all the chasis and stuff...it's an original one from 87 for camaros only. I'm getting my mechanic to do the horn stuff...found an 1994 in the box reprodction horn made from gm for my 87 at camaro central I bought. Then bought the cam piece harness and spring (s) I need. Total bill.was close to 400...plus labor at 65 an hour...500 ish
In the GM/Helm 1987 Camaro Service Manual - section 3B5 covers the steering column. 3B5-16, that's page 16 of section 3B5, there's a detailed diagram that shows how to change the cancel cam.
In the GM/Helm 1987 Camaro Service Manual - section 3B5 covers the steering column. 3B5-16, that's page 16 of section 3B5, there's a detailed diagram that shows how to change the cancel cam.
Hey thanks a lot sorry for the late reply! I'll definitely show that to my mechanic for when I get back from training and that way he can cut straight to the chase and save me some money. Too afraid I'll mess something up with it and make matters worse lol...usually my luck. Who knows maybe I'll be brave...take photos go slow and try not to bugger up anything in the process...
04-17-2017, 10:43 PM
