Today I began pulling my 305 CFI out of my 83Z. 20 year old electrical and computer wires are mighty brittle. I dont think im going to be able to use many of them again. One word to would be swappers...make sure you have a full set of metric wrenches, despite being american cars, they still use ******* metric wrenches. The godforsaken header bolts are not coming out. Is it possible to pull the engine w/ the stock headers and y-pipe still connected? For those of you who have converted CFI to a carburetor, what throttle linkage do you use? Is there a particular kickdown bracket for the automatic transmission? What should i do with the vast tangled mess of wires that is my engine bay? Cut them at a central location and cover them with electrical tape? Why the hell did they make the top transmission bolts so difficult to get to? If i do cut control to the computer, will the nifty hood scoops on my car still work assuming that I dont touch the cables going to them? Is a harmonic damper puller necessary to remove and replace the harmonic dammper? Or can i rig something up that will work? Sorry for the length, and thanks for the help.
matt

 

Nobody at all? Im really curious about the damper puller.
matt

 

A damper-specific type puller is required to remove it. Another tool is required to install it.

The tranny bolts are hard to get to because GM puts the engine and transmission together before they put them in the car. They aren't interested in how hard they are to get to when in the car.

Best advice on the harness is to cut nothing and remove whatever. Never know what the future holds. But, it's your car, hook up what your new system needs and cut the rest if you like.

No clue about the hood scoops. I don't have them, haven't seen them, and haven't heard much about them on this board.

Carb cable brackets are available from Summit, most parts/speed shops. Cables themselves probably best to get from junkyard.

 

I find trans bolts extremely easy...

Pull the dist first, you're going to have to sooner or later anyway; then get all the top ones with a short 9/16" box-end wrench, from above. You can just reach down there and snag them.

I wil never again lay on my back with 3 feet of extension trying to find a bolt that seems like it's up at the ceiling. That's too much like work.

I agree with the harness advice. Put your dykes away, forget you even have them. Just carefully and patiently peel the harness back, unclip it from the cowl wall where it goes into the car, unplug the wire under the dash, unplug it from everything under the hood, remove each part you aren't going to need and plug it back into the harness plug after you have the harness out, coil it up and put it away.

A few years ago (well, back in about 88 or so actually) I put a 400 in my 83. Did exactly as I described. In 2000, my phone rings, it's a job offer that relocates me to Southern California. You can't begin to imagine how glad I was that 13 years earlier, I followed my own advice.... I had every single piece I needed to put the car into CA emissions trim. It passed and I was able to contnue to drive it. There is no telling how much trouble and expense that would have been, if I had sodomized the wiring like most people seem to do.

You never know what the future holds.

Go "rent" a damper puller at Atuo Zone or CSK or Advance. They're free.

 

yes... ill try and get the part number for you if you wish... just pm me

also youll want to get a shorter accelerator cable... as the crossfire one is really long because it comes in from the front...

i just removed all the wires that went to the computer (DONT REMOVE THE ONES THAT GO THROUGH THE FIREWALL ON THE DRIVERS SIDE!!!!) you can remove anything that goes down into the fender on the passenger side... there is a plug down there, but its hard to get to without taking stuff off...

no, they are controlled by the computer, and will not work anymore... i am working on a mod to make them functional with my carb and air cleaner... sort of like the old trans ams did... ill fill you guys in when i finish it....


YES... or you could damage it

 

throw the crossfire into the garbage heap.. you'll be glad you did... then get a carb. or tpi setup :lala:

 

dont throw it away... put everything that goes with it in a box and tuck it away... in case you ever decide to restore the car someday... believe it or not, it will probably be worth something to have one of the first EFI systems on your "classic car" in 15 years or something....

if youre just going to throw it in the garbage, then ill send you shipping money and you can ship it to me.

 

oh, i do agree that you should change it, just keep all the parts from it..

 

5 yrs ago, (Rookie engine builder), i used a 2x4 and big hammer c clamps,and pry bar, etc to remove the damper, it came off and i still use it. lol
Can you hook up the hood scoops to a manual choke switch which you pull when u are racing?
WHen pulling wiring off engine, use masking tape and a pen or light tipped marker to write on the tape as to where each wire was attached to. Believe me, you will forget if you are hooking them back up after one week. Then when you remove the CFI from engine cut off pieces of wiring on the harness which went to the CFI and hook it back on. Re tape and label the cut marks. It will help out others if you sell the CFI to someone else.

 

thought about that too... I was thinking of hooking the linkage up to my carb. so it opens when I give it throttle if I ever got ahold of the pace car hood

 

As mentioned, the scoops are actuated by the computer. The computer sends a signal to a solenoid that opens the flaps, just like on 82-83 T/A's with the crossfire and power bulge hood.

You can make the solenoid activate with a simple switch in the cockpit if you like, that's what I did.

 

if you just rig it up to a switch, dont leave it a whole lot, it will burn out the solenoid after a while... they were made for WOT, not on the whole time...

im taking the lid off my air cleaner for my carb, and getting a smaller lid, that will fit on the air filter only. so ill have about 2 inches of space around the air filter, but still in the air cleaner. then ill make a seal around the lip of the air cleaner that seals up to the hood. next im going to mount a switch on my intake, and attach it to the throttle linkage on the carb, where it trips the swtich past 3/4 throttle or so. the switch will open the scoops, letting nice, cool filtered air into the carb, and then close off again under 3/4 throttle or so.

my other idea was to do this to a modified air cleaner with no snorkels on it, and have the flaps where i could open them manually. then i could put this air cleaner on on nice days and have a ram air setup , then switch it back after im done driving and close the scoops, but i think im going to go with the first idea.

 

RB Im curious, why didnt you try to sneak the 400 through under emmisions trim? Was it just to nastily cammed to have a shot at passing, or are they **** enough there to run block or head numbers?

 

Very true about burning out the solenoid. I only leave it on for short periods.

Also, the carbed cars used a vacuum switch to activate the solenoid. Drop in manifold pressure made the vacuum switch complete the electrical connection. I found one and may hook it up one day.

 

At the time I didn't know what they would check; heads are a PITA to check, but blocks are easy. So I thought that if there was any suspicion at all of what I had, I'd get denied.

And yes, the cam that was in it was a bit much for CA emissions (XR282HR), so I would have had to change that; and the whole induction system and all that anyway; so it wasn't really all that much more trouble to put a 305 together with the OE block, and take a few liberties with other things that I knew I could work with, like the cam choice. I have a XR264HR in the 305 and it breezed right through, although I could tell there were some reservations in the inspector's mind about whether it had a CARB # or not (it definitely doesn't!!)

As far as the C-clamp and hammer, I know personally one individual who has been hit by lightning and survived. I also know someone who knows someone who went sky-diving and his parachute didn't open, and he survived (sort of). Does that mean we don't need parachutes and that lightning isn't dangerous? I think not. You might get lucky once.... but that's not something I'd advise other people to try.

I like the hood opening idea. Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to work that up.

 

thats a good idea to use the vaccuum swtich for it... ill have to do that instead... i dont think any carbed cars came with the functional scoops... actually... im pretty sure they didnt. if you saw it somewhere, it must have been done to a car that used to be crossfire or on a car that had that hood put on.

 

You could do what we did when we took my 305 out if you cannot get the bolts for the Y pipe-manifold off... just unbolt the manifolds from the heads and lift the motor out, then its much easier to get the y-pipe bolts off cuz you can hop in

 

Managed to finagle a sawzall in there at the y-pipe. Did a fair number on it. Also cut the line going from the cat. converter to the engine compartment. Did i do a bad thing, or can i just cap that off?
Matt

 

Well, I don't have any experience with Camaros (I actually wasn't aware of a functional hood scoop system for them) but I do know that the functional "power bulge" or "turbodome" (as GM called it) hood on the carbed Trans Ams worked via a vacuum switch, so I expect the Camaro system worked the same way. My '84 was originally an L69 with the functional system and it uses a vacuum switch, the computer has no influence over the operation of this system, it's strictly vacuum. Just thought I'd throw that in

As for the tube from the cat, you'll be fine if you're not going to run emissions anymore. If you're planning to keep the AIR system, for inspections purposes or what have you, you will need to pipe the cat back into the system

-Paul

 

Yes, carbed 83 and 84 T/A's with L69's and even LG4's had functional hood solenoids. That's where I got my parts from. The LU5 functional hood parts (in 82 and 83) were different due to the crossfire air cleaner housing.

I assume the Camaro was a little different. They definately had a functional hood for the LU5 Z28's in 82 and 83, but I've never seen a picture of a dual snorkel L69 with the ability to use the hood openings.

I personally use a Camaro dual snorkel AND the functional hood on my 82 T/A with LG4.

 

i mainly know about the camaros... so i guess i learned something about the t/a's

the only camaros with funcional hood scoops were the crossfire injection ones... i have a fiberglass hood from a non-crossfire z28 from 82-83 and it has non-funcional scoops.

 

I dont recall cutting any vaccum lines going to the hood when i removed it, just electical lines going to the solenoid. I am assuming that it is an electrical function not set up to work on vaccum.
matt

 

i think its a vaccuum switch that trips the hood relay... (on the firebirds) on the camaros, its done by the computer...

 

Yeah, it is a vacuum switch on the Firebirds. there are no vacuum lines going to the hood, just wires, the switch is on the firewall, and a vacuum line runs to that, then wires to the hood.

-Paul

 

Crossfire engines on both F-bodies trip the solenoid with the computer. Carbed Firebirds use the vacuum switch mounted on the firewall on the driver side.

 

Its still possible to set up a switch by the driver to turn it on tho, right? Thats what i wanna do after i pull the ECU.
Matt

 

yes its possible... i believe you just put a switch on the non-pink/black wire and connect it to a ground, and when you flick, the switch, it grounds the wire, and trips the relay...

the pink with black stripe wires are the power supplying wires... theres 3 wires going to the relay (2 are pink/black)... you want to put a switched ground wire on the other wire, because all the computer did, was when it sensed WOT, it grounded that wire...

 

Okay, i pulled the pan and thankfully it has very little sludge. The pump and pickup are iron so i have to get it brazed im told. There are TONS of wires floating around in there. I want to cut the wires at the firewall, but i dont want to permanantly remove other things. Are the headlights/turn signals controlled by the computer? Are the windshield wipers? Is it possible to trace these wires back to the firewall and cut all the other ones? Will leaving these wires pose a fire hazard? I have pictures of a couple things that are mysteries to me, but i dont know how to post them on the boards. How do you do that? One of them is a box that has a bunch of vaccum lines going to it in the front drivers side . It seems to be associated with fuel lines, but im not sure. Any idea what this is and if i can remove it, i'll post pics as soon as somebody tells me how. Thanks
matt

 

dude... dont cut ANY wires going through the plug on the driver's side of the firewall... those all go to the gauges and stuff... the ones for the computer and fuel injection go through on the passenger side... they go into the fender and down by the bottom of the front of the door, behind the fender, they go through... you should be able to cut them, tuck them in the fender, and get under your dash and disconnect all the plugs that go to that, and remove the computer... then they will just be segments of wire, and not live, and wont pose any threats.

 

DON'T CUT ANY WIRES!!!!! It just isn't necessary at all, and it just destroys something that otherwise retains its value.

The "box with lots of vacuum lines" is your cruise control regulator. Leave it, and all its wires and vacuum lines, alone. Unless of course you are just determined to devalue your car by destroying that.

Why is it that people somehow think that it's a good thing to remove stuff? Are "looks" more important than having a car that works? Kind of like the people who buy the cheeeeep chrome valve covers that don't have PCV fittings; so they end up with a motor full of sludge and crap, that wears out early because the oil is perpetualy contaminated with moisture and combustion..... and this somehow "looks" better than a car that works right? How can something that doesn't work right, that you can tell doesn't work right just by looking at it, "look" better than something that does?

Take out the right fender well liner, and you'll see where the computer wires go. On the inside of the car, behind the kick panel, you'll see the place they come through, there's a clip that hols the harness in; just slide the clip off and feed the harness through. Easy, quick, sanitary, no pecker tracks, and you still have a good wiring harness when you're through. Don't cut them.

Other wires, such as headlight wiring and such, all comes from the plug below the brake booster. If their "looks" really bother you that bad, get some split wire loom like what the factory used, and put it over them. Don't just cut wires because they "look" some way or other.

DON'T CUT ANY WIRES!!!!! Please!! How many times do we need to say that before the message gets through? It just isn't the right thing to do.

 

Dude,
It's your car, cut every thing out and replace it with house wire and coat hangers if you want to.

People have given you suggestions, but it sounds like you bought a new pair of dykes and want to break them in.

 

Not exactly sure what dykes are besides women in comfortable shoes and things that hold back water. Not necessarily mutually exclusive either. I was unaware that it was so easy to unclip the wiring harness and feed it through the firewall. Are there screws holding the right fenderwell liner on? And do i have to remove the kickpanel on the door to take out the wires? The panel beneath where a glove box would go is hanging down, and it would be easiest to remove that. Can i disconnect the wiring harness from there? The cruise control doesnt work anyway, and I also dont use it, so im planning on getting rid of it along with the AC that doesnt work and that i dont use. Im not worried about looks in terms of wires as much as a fire hazard, and your way seems the easiest way RB. Thanks for all the help and advice.
Matt

 

When removing the cruise control box, are there any vaccum lines i need to cap off? And I do not see where in the engine compartment to take off a panel for easier access to the wiring harness. What do i remove on the interior to unclip it from the computer? Will it just slide out through the engine bay? Thanks.
Matt

 

Take out the right inner fender liner, and the kick panel in the interior. You'll see where the ECM harness goes.

There's one vacuum feed to the cruise system. Its wiring and vacuum lines are all one assembly, that just plugs into a couple of spots in the car's harness to get power and all.

Cars are like that; go tour an asesmbly plant sometime, it's a real eye-opener. Each of those assemblies is just that, an assembly, built in such a way that it can be stuck into the car as it rolls along the line, in a matter of a couple of minutes. If you know how it was packaged, or just follow the parts and stuff until you get to a connection, you can almost always break entire assemblies out that way. A/C, the entire dash from the firewall plug out, the ECM, etc. are all installed that way.... they don't have a guy running it one wire at a time, you can believe that.

 

Thank you much. Know of any assembly plants in the NJ area? I'd love to tour one, without a doubt. Thanks again.
matt

 

Don't know offhand, there's bound to be one somewhere within cheap shipping distance of that many people (NYC, Philly, NJ, etc.).... wouldn't have to be a GM one, they all work about the same way.

A very informative experience. It will open your eyes to the way the car is put together; it will show you where the car "breaks apart" into its major pieces, which once you understand, makes it vastly easier to deal with.

 

Yet another question. The CFI setup seems to have two throttle cables running to/from it. Do I need to buy a new throttle cable? Should i get one for an 83 carb'd car? What tool is required to put a balancer on if i decide to get a new balancer? I have to get my oil pump and pickup on, and they need to be brazed, but a lot of machine shops wont put the pump and pickup on for me cuz it wasnt their work. They'll only braze it. Should I put the pump on myself? Im a little leery of taking even a bolt or two off of the bottom end. What torque specs need to be used and how difficult is this to do? Thanks for your help.
matt

 

Well i stripped a socket trying to get the flexplate off, didnt do a damn things to the bolts, thankfully. It was a cheapie socket, i'll run out and get a good set when it stops snowing. I pulled the oil pump off of the old motor too. I was suprized at hwo easy it was to take out. I have a new oil pump and pickup, but there is no way to connect the two, and the new pieces dont seem similar at all to the old ones. While it was out, i shifted it and heard a crack. A small ceramic type round piece holding the oil pump to the oil pump shaft that goes into the engine broke. Is this easily replaced? Do I even need it? I'll try to take a picture if nobody understands what it is im talking about. Anybody have advice as to how to put the oil pump in so I dont break anything? What size bolts are carb studs? Do i need to buy specific studs, or can i just buy any bolts that are the right size? Thanks for the help
Matt

 

Been doin some more work, and of course i've got more questions. I was looking to take out the wires that i dont need, like RB said. There seem to be two sets of wires plugged into the ECM, on that i need and one that i dont need. One is plugged in by a white plug, thats on the drivers side. The other plug is a black plug on the passenger side. Which controls the nonexistent fuel injection, and which controls the headlights and gauges?

There is a black round dealie behind the drivers side headlight with flexible accordion rubber behind it. It has a vaccum line to the cruise control box, and a line to the throttle cable assy. What is this and can i remove it with the cruise control equip?

The vaccum lines from the cruise box go into one big vaccum line into the firewall. Can i simply cut this, or should i cut it and cap it off?

The throttle cable for the CFI system seems incredibly log. Do i need a new one? What PN would it be? Where do i attach it inside the drivers compartment? Or can i do it at the firewall?

There seem to be two return lines. One has a flared end and a rubber portion to make it flexible. The other return line has a nipple on it and is solid. Which should i use as the return line for the regulator, and what should i do with the other one?

I pulled the flexplate, with some serious effort. Can I reuse the bolts, and what are the torque specs for it?
Sorry for the length of this post, and thank you all for your help.
Matt

 

anybody? Bueller...bueller...bueller? No? Damn
Matt

 

add me to your AOL, yahoo, or msn messenger, if you have one, and ill answer any question you might need... ill be back here at like 3 pm Central time...

 

The ECM doesn't control the headlights and the gauges. It has nothing whatsoever to do with them. Not an issue. The one plug hooks the ECM up to the engine; the other one hooks it up to the car, and makes the connections for things like the Check Engine light, switched ignition so that it knows when to start feeding fuel, etc. etc. You don't need it. Just unplug it and leave it there.

The "black round dealie" is the cruise control servo. It's the thing that actually yanks on the throttle. You can remove it, but do so carefully, and save it in your box of stuff.

The entire cruise wiring harness and vacuum line assmebly is one big piece. Don't cut anything, don't take anything apart. Just go to the interior side of the firewall, find the harness where it comes through below the brake booster, follow the wires and lines, and unplug it from everything; and feed the whole harness, lines, wires, plugs and all back through the firewall. Put the non-sodomized assembly in your goodie box with all the rest of the things you've preserved un-destroyed. Once you have removed it, you will discover that its only connection to the whole rest of the car's vacuum system, is one single vacuum feed, which is made off of a "T" fitting up near the wiper motor. It gets "accumulated" vacuum from there, such that when it floors the gas, the vacuum that it's using to do so doesn't diappear.

 

I am still using an electric in tank fuel pump. Will unplugging all wires from the ECU interfere with it's function? Thanks
Matt
Edit: 83, is your AIM sn the same as your thirdgen name?

 

Probably so...

The power feed through the oil pressure switch will still work, however you won't get your "priming" shot of juice for 2 seconds. Most people end up wiring their fuel pump straight to ignition, or adding a swithc inside the car. I don't have any real good suggestions for that.

Alternatively, you could use a block-mounted mechanical one like a 82 carbed motor would have had, and just leave the other alone. I haven't ever done it, but others say that the other pump will pull through the in-tank one OK. Seems like that wouldn't be too hard to test.

 

So if I leave my ignition switched on for two seconds, i would get the "priming" shot like i do now? Will pumping the accelerator do anything other than flood it? Thanks
Matt

 

Im having problems with the wiring. I cannot tell what wiring is for the interior instruments (tach, speedo, etc.) and what is for the nonexistent fuel injection. All wires are connected to the bundle that goes to the passenger side fenderwell. After unplugging all the wiring from the computer, i cannot pull this bundle through the firewall either. I no longer care about the resale value of the car, or returning to cease fire injection. I will trace the instrument wires to wherever they go, and isolate them, and cut the rest of them. I simply need to know where the instrument panel wires originate from so that i can trace them. Thanks for your help
Matt

 

im using a stock 350 mechanical fuel pump my dad had on the shelf with the other 400-500

it works great pulling straight through the old crossfire electrical pump... just go under your dash to the fuses and pull the one for the in tank pump and spend a little on a fuel pump, adapter plate, and a fuel pump pushrod... easier than dropping the tank and putting in a lower pressure one for the carb, or installing a afpr.. all wires that go in the passenger side firewall under the fender are for the fuel injection and ecm.. you dont need them... all the ones for the instrument panel, etc, go through on the drivers side on the fender side of the brake booster... some of them "T" i think and go to the ecm also, but all you have to do is cut the part that goes to the ecm...


anyway, as to where the wires originate for the i/p....

the water temp is under your drivers side exhaust manifold on the head i believe, or just below on the block... its toward the front and just has a single wire...

the oil pressure one is a 3 wire plug that will be on the back of the block, on the top... there is a little hole for it in the block behind where the intake bolts on.... its a round connector...

the tach hooks up to your distributor.. its just a single wire and small square plug... theres also another one that goes to the distributor... its the BATT line... its another ocnnector like it... youll want to save that.. not sure where the volt guage comes from, but it all goes through on the drivers side

 

I just bought the in tank pump thats in there, and i spent the money on the mallory fuel pressure regulator. Ahhhh, that T is what was confuzing me greatly. I'll get to cutting tonite Thankee kindly.
Matt
and is your AOL screen name the same as the one on these boards crossfire?

 

I don't know how many times I have to say this....

The ECM wires have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INSTRUMENTS. They are not interconnected in any way. The sending unit wires are in the harness on THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CAR.

 

my oil pressure sending unit went off with the ecm harness lol
i had to cut those wires....