305tpi to 350tbi swap?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Hotlanta, GA--- Home of the Bandit!
Car: '89 5spd GTA
Engine: 305(LB9) TPI
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: Borg-Warner 3.42
305tpi to 350tbi swap?
Hey guys, I can get a hold of a 1994 350tbi out of a truck and was wondering if I should and what I would need to swap it out for my 305. I'd prefer transfer the TPI setup over if possible. My 305's got 116K on the clock and the 350's got 134K. I know I would go thru it first. Any help is appreciated.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
Should work.
You will need bigger injectors. (22#)
Burned PROM for a L98. I got a VIN off ebay and gave it to the dealer and got a PROM for $75.
I would take your 305 heads and put them on the 350. Those 350 TBI heads SUCK. That engine is pre-vortecs too.
There is more things someone else will touch on, but those are 2 big things.
You will need bigger injectors. (22#)
Burned PROM for a L98. I got a VIN off ebay and gave it to the dealer and got a PROM for $75.
I would take your 305 heads and put them on the 350. Those 350 TBI heads SUCK. That engine is pre-vortecs too.
There is more things someone else will touch on, but those are 2 big things.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Should work.
You will need bigger injectors. (22#)
Burned PROM for a L98. I got a VIN off ebay and gave it to the dealer and got a PROM for $75.
I would take your 305 heads and put them on the 350. Those 350 TBI heads SUCK. That engine is pre-vortecs too.
There is more things someone else will touch on, but those are 2 big things.
You will need bigger injectors. (22#)
Burned PROM for a L98. I got a VIN off ebay and gave it to the dealer and got a PROM for $75.
I would take your 305 heads and put them on the 350. Those 350 TBI heads SUCK. That engine is pre-vortecs too.
There is more things someone else will touch on, but those are 2 big things.
The TBI heads DO NOT SUCK!!!!!!
Atleast compared to other stock pre-vortec GM offerings.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
The best stock head example is when, I moded the NEW GOODWRENCH 350 TBI that went in my little brothers 1995 4x4 Tahoe with his help, making 255 RWHP @ 5,000 and 325 RWTQ @ 3,500 on untouched 193 heads (if you don't count cutting down the guides for retainer clearance) and still using cast iron manifolds. The longest run-on in history. On the engine dyno it made 314 FWHP @ 5,300 and 378 ft/lbs @ 3,400. The pull started at 1,800 where it was showing 330 ft/lbs. Torque was over 330 ft/lbs from 1,800 to 5,000 rpm.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Hotlanta, GA--- Home of the Bandit!
Car: '89 5spd GTA
Engine: 305(LB9) TPI
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: Borg-Warner 3.42
Thanks guys, My 305 runs great. Do you think I should swap or build up my 305 some?
Trending Topics
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
Unless you have every trick in the book thrown at it, I find that 255whp hard to believe.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...wirl-port.html
Read post #22. He ported those heads just to get the same results as you. Unported he only made 210whp.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...93-post14.html
Now read that. 083=Iron L98's.
You should remember this.
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...6&postcount=18
Now, just as bad as the TBI castings beat the L98's in the exhaust, the L98's beat them in intake flow. Exhaust flow isnt that important if there is no air in the cylinder in the first place.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...wirl-port.html
Read post #22. He ported those heads just to get the same results as you. Unported he only made 210whp.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...93-post14.html
Now read that. 083=Iron L98's.
You should remember this.
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...6&postcount=18
Now, just as bad as the TBI castings beat the L98's in the exhaust, the L98's beat them in intake flow. Exhaust flow isnt that important if there is no air in the cylinder in the first place.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Unless you have every trick in the book thrown at it, I find that 255whp hard to believe.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...wirl-port.html
Read post #22. He ported those heads just to get the same results as you. Unported he only made 210whp.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...93-post14.html
Now read that. 083=Iron L98's.
You should remember this.
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...6&postcount=18
Now, just as bad as the TBI castings beat the L98's in the exhaust, the L98's beat them in intake flow. Exhaust flow isnt that important if there is no air in the cylinder in the first place.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...wirl-port.html
Read post #22. He ported those heads just to get the same results as you. Unported he only made 210whp.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...93-post14.html
Now read that. 083=Iron L98's.
You should remember this.
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...6&postcount=18
Now, just as bad as the TBI castings beat the L98's in the exhaust, the L98's beat them in intake flow. Exhaust flow isnt that important if there is no air in the cylinder in the first place.
DynoDon used a substantially smaller LT1 cam.
This clip is from Lo-tech and his 350 TBI build up, using untouched swirl ports.
My old 350 (used wrist pin knocking warranty motor out of a 90 cadillac fleetwood brougham) went 13.61@101.5 with a 1.91 60' with minimal mods. This used 40K motor had a crane TPI cam (.452/.465 with 214/220 on a 112, 3 deg. advanced) and normal bolt-ons (cheap shorty headers, performer intake, exhaust) and 3.73's. Stock 700r4 and stock stall from an 88 GTA. This motor had the crappy swirl port heads and ran awesome for an "el cheapo" special.
I posted this on FSC forever and a day ago about the Tahoe engine.
My little brothers 1995 Tahoe was making 255 RWHP @ 5,000 and 325 ft/lbs @ 3,500 on untouched 193 heads (if you don't count cutting down the guides for retainer clearance) and cast iron manifolds. That is about 80 RWHP more than stock. The secret is a great cam and lots of tuning. In fact I am about to ditch my L82 cam for the same cam. Its a Crane Roller with a powerband of 1,800-5,800 on a 112* lobe center. Since then we have swapped my ported 193s from my G20 onto it. It will idle smoothly with 17 in/hg on the vacuum gauge and the torque comes on abruptly but smoothly. More than 1/4 throttle in 1st gear will tear the tires to shreds and that is with a 3.42 gear and sticky P275/60/R17s.
Keep in mind this is a fresh GM Crate 350 TBI that was cammed from the begining, has a Holley Projection intake, 454 TBI assembly, 454 injectors, L69 Dual Snorkel w/ Cold Air Induction, AFPR, TBI Spacer, High Flow cat, Flowmaster 70 Series Big Block muffler, Cat-Back duals, and that Crane Cam. The stock GM 193 heads were cut for valve lift ONLY and milled for flatness. The block was decked and blueprinted. The stock rotating assembly was balanced. Probably most important is that the Chip is darn near perfect. It also has a fresh 4L60E with a 2,800 Stall in it. Thist truck flat gets it.
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
The Engine Dyno was 314 FWHP @ 5,300 and 378 ft/lbs @ 3,400. The pull started at 1,800 where it was showing 330 ft/lbs. Torque was over 330 ft/lbs from 1,800 to 5,000 rpm. 330 ft/lbs is what a Vortec 350 and some 5.3s put out at peak. At 3,000 rpm it is making 370 ft/lbs. No wonder it launches the way it does when you bring it up on the converter. At 6,000 it is still hanging onto 290 FWHP. We don't have dyno #s from the ported 193 head swap, but I have a feeling it is ATLEAST 30 HP more.
The engine was being run with a Hacked/Chipped 1992 299 ECM and an Extra Van TBI harness I had laying around. We basically converted the Harness to stand-alone(Very Easy with a van harness). The engine had NO accessories on it when dyno'd. The water pump was merely installed for water to be pumped through. In short it was run on the dyno with cast iron exhaust manifolds, a 454 TBI, 454 injectors, and a Holley Projection Intake.
Total timing was 28* BTDC @ 2,800 RPM and 16* initial with an A/F mixture holding at roughly 12.7:1 all through the pulls. At 6,100 RPM the injectors went STATIC. More fuel pressure would have easily eliminated this problem. But our max intended RPM was 5,800 anyway.
The heads were stock other than the valve guides being cut down, the crane springs installed, and milled to make sure everything is true. The ports, valves, etc were all untouched.
Keep in mind this is a fresh GM Crate 350 TBI that was cammed from the begining, has a Holley Projection intake, 454 TBI assembly, 454 injectors, L69 Dual Snorkel w/ Cold Air Induction, AFPR, TBI Spacer, High Flow cat, Flowmaster 70 Series Big Block muffler, Cat-Back duals, and that Crane Cam. The stock GM 193 heads were cut for valve lift ONLY and milled for flatness. The block was decked and blueprinted. The stock rotating assembly was balanced. Probably most important is that the Chip is darn near perfect. It also has a fresh 4L60E with a 2,800 Stall in it. Thist truck flat gets it.
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
The Engine Dyno was 314 FWHP @ 5,300 and 378 ft/lbs @ 3,400. The pull started at 1,800 where it was showing 330 ft/lbs. Torque was over 330 ft/lbs from 1,800 to 5,000 rpm. 330 ft/lbs is what a Vortec 350 and some 5.3s put out at peak. At 3,000 rpm it is making 370 ft/lbs. No wonder it launches the way it does when you bring it up on the converter. At 6,000 it is still hanging onto 290 FWHP. We don't have dyno #s from the ported 193 head swap, but I have a feeling it is ATLEAST 30 HP more.
The engine was being run with a Hacked/Chipped 1992 299 ECM and an Extra Van TBI harness I had laying around. We basically converted the Harness to stand-alone(Very Easy with a van harness). The engine had NO accessories on it when dyno'd. The water pump was merely installed for water to be pumped through. In short it was run on the dyno with cast iron exhaust manifolds, a 454 TBI, 454 injectors, and a Holley Projection Intake.
Total timing was 28* BTDC @ 2,800 RPM and 16* initial with an A/F mixture holding at roughly 12.7:1 all through the pulls. At 6,100 RPM the injectors went STATIC. More fuel pressure would have easily eliminated this problem. But our max intended RPM was 5,800 anyway.
The heads were stock other than the valve guides being cut down, the crane springs installed, and milled to make sure everything is true. The ports, valves, etc were all untouched.
Last edited by Fast355; Dec 2, 2006 at 01:08 AM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
Sounds like Lo-Tec had alot of mods that worked well together.
I do not use Dyno2000 as a accurate form of guessing horsepower. And like I told you before, how important is exhaust flow when you have no fresh air getting into the cylinder?
Also, it mixes the A/F better only because its changing directions so damn many times to get into the cylinder all the turbulance causes good mixing. I honestly do not think its a significant enough gain there to warrent having heads that flow like crap.
Youre right about one thing, a LTR TPI and swirl ports would make a EXCELLENT towing motor. The extremely fast manifold velocity would make enough off idle torque to make a diesel cry. Although my mild L98 (stock heads and ported upper plenum) made peak power at 5200.
Low RPM torque numbers might be off with that converter you have. I'll let people smarter than me explain why. Something about torque multiplication or some crap.
I also noticed the truck was dyno'd with gross figures? No accessorys, no alternator, no PS pump? No wonder its kinda high.
I do not use Dyno2000 as a accurate form of guessing horsepower. And like I told you before, how important is exhaust flow when you have no fresh air getting into the cylinder?
Also, it mixes the A/F better only because its changing directions so damn many times to get into the cylinder all the turbulance causes good mixing. I honestly do not think its a significant enough gain there to warrent having heads that flow like crap.
Youre right about one thing, a LTR TPI and swirl ports would make a EXCELLENT towing motor. The extremely fast manifold velocity would make enough off idle torque to make a diesel cry. Although my mild L98 (stock heads and ported upper plenum) made peak power at 5200.
Low RPM torque numbers might be off with that converter you have. I'll let people smarter than me explain why. Something about torque multiplication or some crap.
I also noticed the truck was dyno'd with gross figures? No accessorys, no alternator, no PS pump? No wonder its kinda high.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo, NY
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LT1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt w/ 4.10 gears
you probably wouldn't get a huge increase in performance for the work required to swap in the stock 350 (with or without its current heads) and the cost of new injectors and PROM. If your 305 TPI is running well now, why not build up the 350 on the side as funds allow? This way you'll be making a big step up in performance when you go through all the work of swapping.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Hotlanta, GA--- Home of the Bandit!
Car: '89 5spd GTA
Engine: 305(LB9) TPI
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: Borg-Warner 3.42
Yeah, thats what Im probably gonna do. No since in pulling the 305 til I get the 350 built. From what I've gathered, I may be better off using the 305 heads. That should only leave me to buy 24lbs injectors and update the PROM. Sound right?
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo, NY
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LT1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt w/ 4.10 gears
i'd look at getting some aftermarket heads or maybe a set of used aluminum L98 heads from a vette. I'd go with aluminum so you can have them ported easily. It all depends on how far you want to go with it. I don't think your 305 heads or the stock 350 TBI heads are the very good to go with for a high-performance 350 build. Just do alot of reading and figure out what your goals are, then find the most efficient route to get there
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Sounds like Lo-Tec had alot of mods that worked well together.
I do not use Dyno2000 as a accurate form of guessing horsepower. And like I told you before, how important is exhaust flow when you have no fresh air getting into the cylinder?
Also, it mixes the A/F better only because its changing directions so damn many times to get into the cylinder all the turbulance causes good mixing. I honestly do not think its a significant enough gain there to warrent having heads that flow like crap.
Youre right about one thing, a LTR TPI and swirl ports would make a EXCELLENT towing motor. The extremely fast manifold velocity would make enough off idle torque to make a diesel cry. Although my mild L98 (stock heads and ported upper plenum) made peak power at 5200.
Low RPM torque numbers might be off with that converter you have. I'll let people smarter than me explain why. Something about torque multiplication or some crap.
I also noticed the truck was dyno'd with gross figures? No accessorys, no alternator, no PS pump? No wonder its kinda high.
I do not use Dyno2000 as a accurate form of guessing horsepower. And like I told you before, how important is exhaust flow when you have no fresh air getting into the cylinder?
Also, it mixes the A/F better only because its changing directions so damn many times to get into the cylinder all the turbulance causes good mixing. I honestly do not think its a significant enough gain there to warrent having heads that flow like crap.
Youre right about one thing, a LTR TPI and swirl ports would make a EXCELLENT towing motor. The extremely fast manifold velocity would make enough off idle torque to make a diesel cry. Although my mild L98 (stock heads and ported upper plenum) made peak power at 5200.
Low RPM torque numbers might be off with that converter you have. I'll let people smarter than me explain why. Something about torque multiplication or some crap.
I also noticed the truck was dyno'd with gross figures? No accessorys, no alternator, no PS pump? No wonder its kinda high.
Your loss on DD2000/DD2003 and Engine Analyzer. They are all very effective when trying to decide what to do mods wise to an engine. I have found them within 5 hp either way (10 HP window) on EVERY engine that I have built. Accurate info in gives the most accurate results.
The intake flow is enough to make something around 350 HP based on the formula of 2 hp per CFM. That is plenty of intake flow to cause the choke to be the exhaust ports. I have ported just the exhaust side of TBI heads and seen gains in HP/TQ. The intake flow is NOT restricting the flow, under 5,000 rpm on MOST 305/350 build ups.
Before you start this hand waving stuff again, have you ever owned a Swirl Port headed car, let alone drop a pair of the heads on a flow bench. What about porting on the swirl ports? Have you dyno'd them in stock form or modified? I have and I found that the bashing is un-warrented. The 210 RWHP that Dyno Don found with his TPI car is better than most stock 350 TPI cars. I used a TBI setup that was much less restrictive than the LTR TPI and a bigger cam and got 255 RWHP.
The old TBI 355 in my G20 with ported 193s and a LT1 cam with the stock sized TBI and stock TBI intake, I pulled 279 RWHP/342 RWTQ with all accessories attached includig the clutch fan.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tb...ght=garage+193 (Garage Ported "193"s (Flow #s))
When it was on the ENGINE dyno it was Gross numbers. On the Chassis dyno however it was NET. It even had the stock 7 blade clutch fan on it.
Your loss on DD2000/DD2003 and Engine Analyzer. They are all very effective when trying to decide what to do mods wise to an engine. I have found them within 5 hp either way (10 HP window) on EVERY engine that I have built. Accurate info in gives the most accurate results.
The intake flow is enough to make something around 350 HP based on the formula of 2 hp per CFM. That is plenty of intake flow to cause the choke to be the exhaust ports. I have ported just the exhaust side of TBI heads and seen gains in HP/TQ. The intake flow is NOT restricting the flow, under 5,000 rpm on MOST 305/350 build ups.
Last edited by Fast355; Dec 2, 2006 at 12:26 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
I am dropping this argument. Not because I feel you are right, because its a complete, utter, waste of my time. Youre thinking and theory is so off basis I feel like I am getting dumber for reading it. You are awarded no points. You build your car, I'll build my faster one, and we'll all be happy.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
I am dropping this argument. Not because I feel you are right, because its a complete, utter, waste of my time. Youre thinking and theory is so off basis I feel like I am getting dumber for reading it. You are awarded no points. You build your car, I'll build my faster one, and we'll all be happy.
My thinking off base, LOL. GO ahead. I have done it, have the proof, and it is right in front of you. Several others have as well. Perhaps you should do a little reading on Small Block Chevrolet engines or go back to VW's. Wait until a fullsize van blows by you with swirl ports.
Then again my thinking is not for a 9 second drag car either, just a fun to drive, torquey, economical daily driver. The original poster never mentions wanting a "RACE" car. The same swirl ports that carried my 3.08 geared G20 Van to 15.6 quarter miles would put a thirdgen in the low 13s to high 12s. That would be close to what DynoDon obtained with his ported set.
If you want to go FAST and have a much thinner wallet, buy a pair of Darts, AFRs, or Trickflows and forget the factory castings.
Last edited by Fast355; Dec 2, 2006 at 05:19 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
You failed to mention the peanut cam thread where you got blitzkreig owned by JPrevost. I am not the only one smarter than you to tell you those heads are virtually useless in performance vehicles. In your application they work well. In most thirdgens they will not do so well. I do not build racecars. I build streetcars.
I already have a set of AFR's 195's, and they give me a nice rubbery one.
BTW, I am not a one trick pony. I have built several fast VW's (300-550whp) and a handful of fast chevys. My little stock turbo would very easily keep your G20 in the rear view and falling. I can make almost anything fast. Mainly because I do my research and listen to those smarter than me and ignore those dumber than me.
Good day sir.
I already have a set of AFR's 195's, and they give me a nice rubbery one.
BTW, I am not a one trick pony. I have built several fast VW's (300-550whp) and a handful of fast chevys. My little stock turbo would very easily keep your G20 in the rear view and falling. I can make almost anything fast. Mainly because I do my research and listen to those smarter than me and ignore those dumber than me.
Good day sir.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
You failed to mention the peanut cam thread where you got blitzkreig owned by JPrevost. I am not the only one smarter than you to tell you those heads are virtually useless in performance vehicles. In your application they work well. In most thirdgens they will not do so well. I do not build racecars. I build streetcars.
I already have a set of AFR's 195's, and they give me a nice rubbery one.
BTW, I am not a one trick pony. I have built several fast VW's (300-550whp) and a handful of fast chevys. My little stock turbo would very easily keep your G20 in the rear view and falling. I can make almost anything fast. Mainly because I do my research and listen to those smarter than me and ignore those dumber than me.
Good day sir.
I already have a set of AFR's 195's, and they give me a nice rubbery one.
BTW, I am not a one trick pony. I have built several fast VW's (300-550whp) and a handful of fast chevys. My little stock turbo would very easily keep your G20 in the rear view and falling. I can make almost anything fast. Mainly because I do my research and listen to those smarter than me and ignore those dumber than me.
Good day sir.
This way of thinking you mention reminds me of when I put 1 3/4" primary headers with 3.5" collectors and dual 3" exhaust on my 305. Everyone said it would fall on its face and not make ANY torque. Well I CAN tell you that it gained power from 1,800 rpm through 6,500 rpm proven on the dyno and by improved times at the track. I even cut a quicker 60'. Proved all the ones against it wrong.
They do and will work well in alot of daily driver F-bodies. Look at Dewey316, DynoDon's, and Lo-tec's cars.
Most daily drivers rarely see the high side of 4,500 rpm. Even if they do it is only for a few seconds at a time. I find it counter productive to aim for peak power over 5,000 rpm on a daily driver. Strong torque down low is more fun to drive than a high winding beast any day of the week. I will take 10 ft/lbs of torque over 10 HP anyday of the week. Give me a diesels powerband and I would be happy, even in a F-car.
I have a V10 Dodge that would walk from your stock turbo easily too. Whats the point, power to weight is not the Vans strong suit, but I have a feeling you knew that.
My G20 would very easily pull your stock turbo down the road backwards with your tires spinning uselessly though.
Once again entirely different applications, but you know and admit that.
Can your stock turbo keep a LT1 Camaro in the rear-view? I know the one I raced could not pass me, until after I lifted around 85-90 MPH.
I would love to see the link where I got owned by Prevost on the Peanut cam because I honestly don't recall. I am not fond of the peanut cam myself, just used it in a certain application that it would and did perform well in.
FWIW, I am only running non-swirl heads now because I had a pair of 081s ready to go. Going from 8.4:1 compression to 9.85:1 compression was needed along with porting the heads to go along with the cam I used. I could have easily used Vortecs, Swirl ports, AFRs, Darts, or Trickflows, but the 56cc chambers of the ported 081s that I already owned with 1.94/1.60 valves were what I needed to combat the 18cc dished pistons.
Keep in mind that I am all about re-using what you have when you are doing a budget build.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ml#post3144174
Last edited by Fast355; Dec 3, 2006 at 11:03 AM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
Why are you trying make this personal by calling me stupid?
They do and will work well in alot of daily driver F-bodies. Look at Dewey316, DynoDon's, and Lo-tec's cars.
Most daily drivers rarely see the high side of 4,500 rpm. Even if they do it is only for a few seconds at a time. I find it counter productive to aim for peak power over 5,000 rpm on a daily driver. Strong torque down low is more fun to drive than a high winding beast any day of the week. I will take 10 ft/lbs of torque over 10 HP anyday of the week. Give me a diesels powerband and I would be happy, even in a F-car.
I have a V10 Dodge that would walk from your stock turbo easily too. Whats the point, power to weight is not the Vans strong suit, but I have a feeling you knew that.
My G20 would very easily pull your stock turbo down the road backwards with your tires spinning uselessly too.
Once again entirely different applications, but you know and admit that.
Can your stock turbo keep a LT1 Camaro in the rear-view? I know the one I raced could not pass me, until after I lifted around 85-90 MPH.
I would love to see the link where I got owned by Prevost on the Peanut cam because I honestly don't recall. I am not fond of the peanut cam myself, just used it in a certain application that it would and did perform well in.
FWIW, I am only running non-swirl heads now because I had a pair of 081s ready to go. Going from 8.4:1 compression to 9.85:1 compression was needed along with porting the heads to go along with the cam I used. I could have easily used Vortecs, Swirl ports, AFRs, Darts, or Trickflows, but the 56cc chambers of the ported 081s that I already owned with 1.94/1.60 valves were what I needed to combat the 18cc dished pistons.
Keep in mind that I am all about re-using what you have when you are doing a budget build.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ml#post3144174
They do and will work well in alot of daily driver F-bodies. Look at Dewey316, DynoDon's, and Lo-tec's cars.
Most daily drivers rarely see the high side of 4,500 rpm. Even if they do it is only for a few seconds at a time. I find it counter productive to aim for peak power over 5,000 rpm on a daily driver. Strong torque down low is more fun to drive than a high winding beast any day of the week. I will take 10 ft/lbs of torque over 10 HP anyday of the week. Give me a diesels powerband and I would be happy, even in a F-car.
I have a V10 Dodge that would walk from your stock turbo easily too. Whats the point, power to weight is not the Vans strong suit, but I have a feeling you knew that.
My G20 would very easily pull your stock turbo down the road backwards with your tires spinning uselessly too.
Once again entirely different applications, but you know and admit that.
Can your stock turbo keep a LT1 Camaro in the rear-view? I know the one I raced could not pass me, until after I lifted around 85-90 MPH.
I would love to see the link where I got owned by Prevost on the Peanut cam because I honestly don't recall. I am not fond of the peanut cam myself, just used it in a certain application that it would and did perform well in.
FWIW, I am only running non-swirl heads now because I had a pair of 081s ready to go. Going from 8.4:1 compression to 9.85:1 compression was needed along with porting the heads to go along with the cam I used. I could have easily used Vortecs, Swirl ports, AFRs, Darts, or Trickflows, but the 56cc chambers of the ported 081s that I already owned with 1.94/1.60 valves were what I needed to combat the 18cc dished pistons.
Keep in mind that I am all about re-using what you have when you are doing a budget build.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ml#post3144174
I was in a bad mood earlier. Bowling took care of that. 
Torque is a good thing, but too much is a bad thing. My L98 powered RS did 311lb-ft to the rear tires. With a 2500 stall and 3.42 gears and 265/50/15 rear tires it would cook the tires anywhere under 40mph. Its cool if you like doing burnouts, but by time I would hook the other guy would be 2-3 cars ahead and I would have to rely on my lack of top end to catch them. See the problem? Not to mention driving the car in the rain is scary as hell. Anywhere under 65 and its sideways. Thats a mostly stock engine too.
I think my setup would work well in your G20 because it has to overcome the weight and the low gears would keep it in the lower powerband where it shines. Your truck NEEDS the torque to get it moving, where as a lighter car will not need as much to get it going.
So, I am pulling off my TPI, my 083's, and my LT4 cam and I am changing the setup to move the powerband up to where its more useful to me. Like from 3500 to 6500. I do not need a car with tons of low end torque. I do not want to burn tires, I want to burn the car next to me.
F-bodys do not need the torque created from the extremely fast runner velocity in the swirl ports. The heads you run all have something in common. They came on heavy cars with granny gears.
Caprice? Check.
1500 P/U? Check.
Your van? Check.
As for my VW, due to the turbo it makes peak torque at 3k (relatively low mind you for a 4 cylinder) and it makes 250lb-ft at the tires. It FEELS fast and runs in the midrange, but when it gets going and I have to rely on horsepower, which it lacks unfortunately. Based on others, I would say its close to 14.2@100. Not blazing by any means, but hey I drive it 100 miles a day. Enough to make a LT1 have to work for it.
Maybe that LT1 you ran had bad valvesprings? Those engines are getting kinda old now. Its amazing how much power you lose when your valves do not shut fast enough. I lost (on estimate) probably 50-60hp because my valves were floating.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
I did not directly call you stupid. Just indirectly. I was in a bad mood earlier. Bowling took care of that.
Torque is a good thing, but too much is a bad thing. My L98 powered RS did 311lb-ft to the rear tires. With a 2500 stall and 3.42 gears and 265/50/15 rear tires it would cook the tires anywhere under 40mph. Its cool if you like doing burnouts, but by time I would hook the other guy would be 2-3 cars ahead and I would have to rely on my lack of top end to catch them. See the problem? Not to mention driving the car in the rain is scary as hell. Anywhere under 65 and its sideways. Thats a mostly stock engine too.
I think my setup would work well in your G20 because it has to overcome the weight and the low gears would keep it in the lower powerband where it shines. Your truck NEEDS the torque to get it moving, where as a lighter car will not need as much to get it going.
So, I am pulling off my TPI, my 083's, and my LT4 cam and I am changing the setup to move the powerband up to where its more useful to me. Like from 3500 to 6500. I do not need a car with tons of low end torque. I do not want to burn tires, I want to burn the car next to me.
F-bodys do not need the torque created from the extremely fast runner velocity in the swirl ports. The heads you run all have something in common. They came on heavy cars with granny gears.
Caprice? Check.
1500 P/U? Check.
Your van? Check.
As for my VW, due to the turbo it makes peak torque at 3k (relatively low mind you for a 4 cylinder) and it makes 250lb-ft at the tires. It FEELS fast and runs in the midrange, but when it gets going and I have to rely on horsepower, which it lacks unfortunately. Based on others, I would say its close to 14.2@100. Not blazing by any means, but hey I drive it 100 miles a day. Enough to make a LT1 have to work for it.
Maybe that LT1 you ran had bad valvesprings? Those engines are getting kinda old now. Its amazing how much power you lose when your valves do not shut fast enough. I lost (on estimate) probably 50-60hp because my valves were floating.
I was in a bad mood earlier. Bowling took care of that. Torque is a good thing, but too much is a bad thing. My L98 powered RS did 311lb-ft to the rear tires. With a 2500 stall and 3.42 gears and 265/50/15 rear tires it would cook the tires anywhere under 40mph. Its cool if you like doing burnouts, but by time I would hook the other guy would be 2-3 cars ahead and I would have to rely on my lack of top end to catch them. See the problem? Not to mention driving the car in the rain is scary as hell. Anywhere under 65 and its sideways. Thats a mostly stock engine too.
I think my setup would work well in your G20 because it has to overcome the weight and the low gears would keep it in the lower powerband where it shines. Your truck NEEDS the torque to get it moving, where as a lighter car will not need as much to get it going.
So, I am pulling off my TPI, my 083's, and my LT4 cam and I am changing the setup to move the powerband up to where its more useful to me. Like from 3500 to 6500. I do not need a car with tons of low end torque. I do not want to burn tires, I want to burn the car next to me.
F-bodys do not need the torque created from the extremely fast runner velocity in the swirl ports. The heads you run all have something in common. They came on heavy cars with granny gears.
Caprice? Check.
1500 P/U? Check.
Your van? Check.
As for my VW, due to the turbo it makes peak torque at 3k (relatively low mind you for a 4 cylinder) and it makes 250lb-ft at the tires. It FEELS fast and runs in the midrange, but when it gets going and I have to rely on horsepower, which it lacks unfortunately. Based on others, I would say its close to 14.2@100. Not blazing by any means, but hey I drive it 100 miles a day. Enough to make a LT1 have to work for it.
Maybe that LT1 you ran had bad valvesprings? Those engines are getting kinda old now. Its amazing how much power you lose when your valves do not shut fast enough. I lost (on estimate) probably 50-60hp because my valves were floating.
I do admit that I don't know how that LT1 ran or had been treated.
I can however tell you that my 1994 G10 went 14.7s @ 95 mph with Dart 180 heads and a LT4 cam with cast iron manifolds (325 RWHP/306 RWTQ). My 1983 G20 hooks better and pulls harder at all RPM ranges than the 1994 did. I can hit the top of this one on-ramp (about 1/8 mile) 5-6 mph faster in the 1983 than the 1994 could. Does this mean it would trap 5-6 mph faster, I doubt it. But it atleast shows that it is in the same league as the 1994.
I know all too well about valvesprings too. At 100,000 miles my original valve springs and cam were gone in my original 305. It got to the point were the secondaries would not even open.
The ported 081s only have like 165cc ports in them, so that keeps the torque high as well.
If you would, PM me on what are you doing with these.
TPI?
LT4 cam?
Last edited by Fast355; Dec 2, 2006 at 08:54 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
From: miami, florida
Both are for sale. I sold the 083's and stock L98 cam to my neighbor who has a L05 truck. I gave him those and gonna do the labor on a stock 350 build in exchange for painting my car. (He owns a body shop) LT4 cam is still in the engine, but needs to come out. TPI is sitting next door waiting for a owner. Cam has about 5k miles on it, TPI probably 750.
My valvesprings were so shot I could completely compress them in my hand. Granted I have the strongest grip of anyone I know. I can just about break other people's hands. I think they measured 70lbs @ 1.700. The new ones were over 110.
My valvesprings were so shot I could completely compress them in my hand. Granted I have the strongest grip of anyone I know. I can just about break other people's hands. I think they measured 70lbs @ 1.700. The new ones were over 110.
Last edited by vwdave; Dec 2, 2006 at 09:05 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
evilstuie
Tech / General Engine
22
Jan 9, 2020 08:29 PM
Hello, Michael
Engine Swap
8
Aug 20, 2015 03:19 PM
