found two crate engines with similar price and similar hp/tq, which would be a better choice? i'd go with the engine package 1.


http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...52506_-1_10763


http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...55609_-1_10763

 

I would go with the second one as it is a GM performance parts engine not a GM goodwrench POS. But, you can't use either of these engines with your tranny, because they are two piece rear seals, and you can't use your TPI, because those are '86 and prior heads not centerbolt style heads.

 

You can use the transmission, just not the flexplate, right?

The first TPI used in 85-86 used those old heads, right? I think that was Z28 and Trans Am only...

I don't think it matters which combo you get because you need to change the camshaft anyway...

 

There are a couple of things you can do if you are dead set on those engines. You can get a Edelbrock base manifold for the early style heads. You can then get an adapter so you can use the 2 piece on your 1 piece tranny. You will not have EGR and you might have some issues with putting your accesories(ac, ps) on it. You will also have to rig up a manual switch to activate your electrical fans on the radiator. To me this would be too much of a hassel. I have only heard bad things about the GM Goodwrench engine, but the only good thing about it is that it is cheap.

 

Whats this garbage about needing an adapter for an auto trans, you will simply need the right flexplate. Should be able to get it off the shelf for less than 40 dollars at any partstore. as far as the fans, if he is running the TPI, why would he want to get rid of it?? If TPI is like all other 87 later intakes he can modify the center two bolts of the intake and still use his intake, we have done this on countless TBI engines. If he wants to get rid of the TPI and go carb, he can do this and still keep the fans off of a toggle switch. You can purchase a temp switch setup that works just like stock.

 

Engine #1 is a universal 70s smogger, part # for part #. The claim may be "260 HP", but when that motor was installed in a car, it was "rated" at about 160-165 HP with a 2-barrel carb and about 180 HP with a 4-barrel.

Engine #2 is marginally better; mostly only because it has a better cam than the 929 in #1.

I would not waste money on either of those. But then, I'm not the phone co. or the post office or a construction co. or somebody like that, with a dead van or truck sitting in some motor pool somewhere, that I need to get back out on the road earning revenue again. That's basically what those motors are for. The cheeeepest thing you can buy that comes with a coast-to-coast warranty, to put a vehicle back onthe road again.

Put TPI on top of either one of those, and install them into an otherwise unmodified car, you'd be damn lucky to get 200 HP out of it; as opposed to the 230 or 240 that a typical L98 might give. Likewise, if the car is modified (exhaust), then figure on their power being 10-15% down from whatever an equally modded stock L98 would do.

As said, all you have to do to use your existing trans, is get the right flex plate; and at most, all you'll have to do to bolt a TPI to one of them, is slot the center 2 intake bolt holes. I would not see either of those things as the killer issue, so much as I'd see the motor just generally being a low-performance piece of crap as being a problem.

 

Not meaning to set any guys ablaze sorry. I have started a couple of threads a long time ago. And they were about using an older stlye engine such as the ones he suggests. A couple of guys who replied to my thread informed me that I would need a certain type of adapter, so I can use my TH-700r4 with the '86 and prior engine. Secondly, correct me if I'am wrong. The electrical fans on the radiator are run by a fan switch(pn 533-4026 at Jegs), and this plug of sorts, screws into the head on the right side of the engine between the two rear spark plugs. Now, if he was using an older engine, wouldn't this hole in the side of the engine not exist, as it would run off of a constantly moving fan off the crank. If he wanted to use those electric fans, he would have to rig up a manual override that controls the on and off operation of them. Finally, about the base I was talking about. This TPI base(pn 350-3861 at Jegs) is predesigned to work with early style heads, so he doesn't have to do any modification to his stock base, and he would have room to port this base and put some SLP runners on it. Sorry about the misinfo. originally stated.

 

There SHOULD be a port on the side of the head regardless of what they are, i think even the old 882's in my garage have the holes in the side. Like stated above, you could just get a fan switch and screw into the head, possibly even reusing the old temperature switch. Be careful though, as the ports do come in different sizes, but you may be able to get an adapter. Hope this info helps you out. Personally I'd rather shell out for a vortec, get the edelbrock manifold, put comp 982 springs in it, and a mild cam, and have a TON more horsepower potential.

 

and sofa,

what's wrong with those engines if you swap a decent cam into them? Are the heads and pistons that bad of a combo?

didn't the first 85-86 TPI use those heads? I turned down an original 85 trans am with TPI that did not have center bolt heads and was stock. I thought an old friend's IROC also had that setup but it may have been an 86...

Anyway, can't you run a stock TPI cam from the 85-86 setup in one of those engines and get similar results to the first IROCs...

 

For the #2 engine, you can go to the GM Performance Parts website and do a virtual build and dyno. The problem is, they don't offer too many ugrade options, so it's rather limited to what you can do. However, a decent cam and aluminum heads would boost the hp considerably.

 

The heads and pistons.No, they're not that bad; they're worse.No. The 305 TPI used 305 heads (416 casting), and the 350 in the Vette got a new 64cc casting. None of the TPI motors ever got the 70s smogger junk 76cc castings.Sure, you can do that; so, why buy a motor and PAY FOR some other kind of heads, that you're just going to take off and throw away? And, if all you're buying is a short block, why buy one with deep-dish smogger cast garbage pistons? If you're looking for a "performance" engine, that whole thing is the WRONG starting point.Possibly; if you did that, your "brand-new" 350 MIGHT approach the performance level of those early TPI 305s.

The heads (not the block) have the hole for the temp switch; you'd just have to take the plug out of it. The hole exists in EVERY small block head all the way back to 1955. Reason being, the otherwise identical casting they put on the left side of the motor, has ALWAYS had the gauge sending unit in it. There is no such thing as a SBC that you can't put that fan switch in.

 

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. I don't have the engine anymore, checked the shop manual but it wasn't clear; but I'm pretty sure the '57 283 had the temp gage sender in the intake manifold. No holes to the water jacket in the head. Came along in the 60's, if memory serves.

 

I can tell you from experience, the 86 TPI units have single fans that are turned on and off by the engine computer. There is no coolant switch on my motor (at least to be found by me and several parts guys who tried to help me with this...)

I had the usual cooling issues prone to the IROCs and cured it with a decent clean up and installed a separate switch system to turn the fan on and off.

Im not looking to make this a long post, so I am saying this... if you are going to build a TPI motor, do your homework. There are lots of guys here who know the cars. Knowledge is power.

 

haha i went there ****ing around with there 502 , i got to there intakes and was reading them and you cant even pick a ****ing intake to dyno it...

 

Most cars function in that way, a temp seding unit controls it. The switch i am talking about is aftermarket, not stock.

 

Yep, it's kind of lame. Most of the crap on the dyno is not available with the motor you wanna test. I found that out after playing with it some more.

 

I disagree with some of the answers here. I swapped the 290hp motor in to my 85 Iroc with the tpi on it. I definatly felt an improvement. I know there is a lot of room for improvement but with the free mods and exhaust, no hedders, afpr set at 48, k&n's, airfoil, it has run a 14.1 at 97.6 mph. I just wanted to add my opinions.

 

DAVEY420 can you tell me more about your troubles or anything you came across when swapping in the 290hp motor?

 

I really didn't have any troubles with the motor because I have an 85 and the flexplate and intake bolted right up. All of the accessories bolted right back where they were. I put some 24lbs injectors on when I did the swap also because mine were 19lbs and 20 years old. I've got 10,000 miles on it now and the only problem now is the valve cover gaskets are leakin at the bolts but thats easy enough to fix. But I went with it for the warrenty and because I can work on the power thing, cause I use my car everyday. Let me know if u have anymore question's.

 

More than likely the improvement came from the fact that you did not have an old worn out engine anymore. Regardless, a 14.1 is stocker territory, and you have no more room for REAL improvement. With a stock TPI the heads have much more potential. The heads on the crate are garbage, plain and simple. The cam sucks too.

 

Well, I bought the 290 hp as an upgrade from a 4 cylinder. I do not intend to race it, just mostly daily driving/commuting. So, I really don't care if it's close to stock. In fact, I prefer it that way. I'm going old school with this conversion: carb, mechanical fuel pump, clutch fan, etc. If you're looking for a tire smoker, then don't buy this engine. All I know is it should be a helluva an improvement over an old worn out Iron Duke.

 

elky74, Have u already installed your motor? I'm just wondering.

 

Still in the process of it all. I have to work outside, no garage and it's been such a cold spring here in Idaho lately, so I'm making sloooooow progress.