I live in Eastern PA where they take Fed emission laws SERIOUSLY. I am thinking of upgrading my 305 L69 with a 350. I believe that the law states that if the car comes with a computer controlled carb, you must keep a computer controlled carb?

Can I keep My 305 Carb and manifold and put it in a 350?

Are therre computer controlled carb 350's?

Is it a real PITA to go Fuel injected ?

AtDhVaAnNkCsE
George Clay

They are just as serious here, so to answer your questions:
Yes.

Yes. Technically, the 350 isn't legal, but they can't tell the difference from a visual inspection, and if the SES doesn't come on and it passes the sniffer, you'll pass.

No.

Yes. And expensive. But, if you do it, you can put on all the equipment for a certain year (such as 1990), and have it inpected/tested as a 1990 model year.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car. Rescued w/86 LG4/TH700R with all harnesses, sensors, ECM, etc. 2.73 open. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LB9 w/ZZ3 cam, exhaust, paint, etc.).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. Currently 396 .030 over, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

The stock Quadra jet does not need to be upgraded. It can flow over 750cfm. Check the technical articles on thirdgen to learn how to make it perform.

FWIW I'd look into getting a 350HO crate motor they cost 2grand. However they're not listed as emissions legal. I think it lacks an EGR provision and well that can be added with a different manifold. Sallee Chevrolet 330 HP, 350 HO ENGINE

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1989 Camaro RS LO3 WCT5 "The Hose Queen" 0-60' 2.34 1/4 15.8@87mph
http://350.StreetRacing.org
ICQ: 61342629 AOL IM: BlackSunshineZ28

I'm using the computer controlled Qjet on my L69, with a fairly aggressive cam, headers, ported heads, etcetera. No trouble codes here... It's quite tolerant of engine changes. I think you could swap in a 350 engine and if the computer can go closed loop, you'll be fine.

take a look at the GM performance catalog. They have a 50-state emissions legal ZZ4 swap package for CLCC equipped third-gens that you can buy for just over $4000. It comes with everything from exhaust headers, engine, metering rods, dual snorkel air cleaner, to suspension components.

You'll be in the 13's and stylin' through the inspection station.


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Daniel Burk
http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.

The 330hp 350HO crate engine uses Vortec heads. An EGR Vortec Q-jet manifold is available, although I'm not sure if that's what comes on the Deluxe (I don't think it is). Again, technically it isn't emissions certified for '76-later, but you could probably get it to pass if the inspector doesn't flunk you on visual.

The ZZ4 conversion is an attractive package, if you can come up with the bucks. It does require premium unleaded, however.

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited October 12, 2000).]

I have the GM Goodwrench 350 (the regular 350 not modified) and it has a computer controlled carb. I also live in eastern PA, I pass emmisions, I have no error codes, no problems either. The previous owner had this done, though so I don't know much about it. I do know there is a quadrajet carb on it from a thirdgen. Oh yeah...it also has a BIG sticker on the valve cover that says "GM goodwrench 350" no emmission station ever gave me any crap about it, even though its an 84 and there were no 350's stock in that year or before.

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84 Firebird with Trans am ground effects- 350 4bbl GM crate motor (LM1), T-Tops, automatic, K&N filter, 180* thermostat, ram-air hood scoop, flowmaster muffler, Accel cap & rotor, MSD Super Conductor Wires. Coming soon: new interior (grey), rear end work, subframe connectors, polyurethane bushings

John that is good information, although I live in Washington state I was told by an emissions official that I couldn't put a 350 in my 84 T/A because there was none offered stock for that year, everyone tells me I'm crazy or I must have misunderstood the emissions person, but that's what they told me!! I'm glad you are not having any problems. I don't know what I'm going to do yet but your post has been very helpful.

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Fire Chick
Black 84 T/A, H.O. L69, 5 spd, 3.73's
Future mods: rebuilt engine with lots of chrome!
http://www.fbody.com/members/fbodyce...firechick.html
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All-Knowing, not-easily-offended Warrior Princess of the Non-famous Cascade Crew

perhaps i may be able to lend some advice. i live in california where i believe emmision testing is the most ridiculous. they do the whole visual crap and check for the carb numbers and what not. i just recently(this summer) completed the 350 gm goodwrench crate motor into my 86 camaro. i used the original q jet cuz no company to this date has made a replacement for smog legal and computer compatible vehicles in my year camaro. i had to replace the ecm cuz it was fried(dont know why, but this was very strange and expenisve)just last week i passed emmisions testing with flying colors. heres what i did :take off that terrible orange and black "350 engine"sticker so it looks like a 305. use your stock carb and just dont act like a moron. there is no way in hell the tech can tell if its a 350 or 305 just by poppin the hood. if you want more info about emmsions testing ask "engineboy" hes on this site and he is a ASE certified smog guy. he also works here in california. he will be able to give you some good info, he helped me and i passed.

daniel

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86 camaro cpe(dont laugh)has 92z28 body kit with GTS covers and a killer stereo. 2 amps, 8 speakers, disc changer, custom install with subs coming by the end of the summer. sawpped (or in the process of) 305lg4 for brand new 350. TES headers, flowmaster cat back, performer manifold, TCI converter, jet chip, kn with dual snorkel cleaner. and she still passed the sniffer!

"Cal Poly SLO is the shi#"

Get in touch w/ your air pollution control agency first which regulates mobile emissions to get the ground rules and go from there. I'm not sure if PA has any local or regional agencies.


FireChick,
What they probably told you or what they meant is, you cant put an older engine in a newer model car ie, a 1970 engine in a 1992 3gen.
Later

Matt, what the person told me was that if I wanted to replace the engine in my 84 car I had to replace it with an *engine* that was available *stock* for the 84 year. I couldn't *legally* put a 350 in my 84 T/A because a 350 was not offered as an option that year.

But like someone above said, how easy would it be for the emissions inspector to tell the difference between a 305 and a 350? Unless they were super smart and super picky you'd prolly get away with it. (But I'd sure hate to spend all the money and then get caught and not be able to tag the car and drive it... )

I was told, in Upstate NY, that I can put in any motor that was offered in any year Camaro. It just can't be an older block. Up here all I have to do is pass a visual. We use federal guidelines up here, no restrictive New York crap.

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1985 Camaro Sport Coupe
LG4, 3.08 rear, A4
Bone Stock
1999 Blazer
4x2, 4.3L, 3.42 rears
Decidedly slow

Let me try to summarize what everyone's saying here.

You can put a later year engine in any car, as long as all the equipment for that year is there as well. For instance, you could put a '90 350 TPI dual cat in your '84, but it has to meet the '90 requirements.

Technically, you cannot put a 350 under a q-jet, because GM never offered a carb'd 350 in Thirdgens. What is being said is that you can "sneak" a 350 by, because the inspector will not be able to tell the difference visually (unless he really digs, which isn't going to happen in real life), and passing the sniffer isn't that hard if everything is in good condition.

Colorado puts '82-newer cars on a dyno while sniffing. This only after you've passed a detailed visual. Doesn't get any stiffer than that. Even California wasn't doing that last I heard.

Think you missed the mile marker back there somewhere ...

The slick trick for this car is the GMPP conversion. It is a substantial discount from the pieces purchased separately, and a great place to start building an emission legal mustang killer.

And yes, it does have the EO for everywhere but CA, so it should be as legal as a dollar bill.

Plus, you're starting with the right powertrain ... HO's had more gear and a better trans.

You can add EO certified goodies, too, such as the SLP exhaust, etc..

Just put it in clean, use your old A/C lid, keep your mouth shut and you will be fast & pass.

Better idea: leave that socalist paradise and move someplace where they have better things to do that give people @%##%#@ about 16 year old cars, LOL.



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Bob
'87 Formula TPI 5-speed

I completely agree, Bob, that the best way is via the conversion kit. It is certified in 49 and waivered in California. The only drawback is the extra cost. So, if you are about $1000 short, you could go with the HO 350 and use the LG4 things and the EO aftermarket goodies like you say.

As far as socialist paridises, it's the Feds that force these things on states such as CA, CO, & PA. They say show you're trying to clean up your air or we'll withold highway funds. Don't get lulled into thinking you're exempt.

Gclay...As stated above (in a roundabout way ) yes you can put a 350 in place of your 305 and use all the stock components (intake/carb/etc.) on the nice new 350.

The key is don't say anything to your smog guy.

I don't look that hard to try and see if they have a 350/400 in the 305 equipped Camaro/TA...I've got other things to keep me busy

I've put 350s in place of 305s and then smogged them myself...."uh, I didn't notice it was a 350" hehehheh.

Good luck and enjoy the extra cubes.

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ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited November 05, 2000).]