I'm not looking forward to swapping my fuel pump either.

What chip are you planning on using? Are you swapping to SD?

 

They're coming!

Staying with the mass air. Burning my own chip ( i hope) using tuner pro and auto prom from Moates.

With the fuel pump, there are a few good reads here that will help. Its really not hard...... just a little tedious and dirty/smelly.
My mistakes were , I left too much fuel (35 litres) in the tank. Empty it out before you start or it will be a little harder.
Drop the rear as far as you can, i left the shocks attached, but I dropped the two stabilzer bars and pulled the muffler off. The over axle pipe stayed in but not connected to CAT, you will have to manuver it as you pulll the tank down.
Try to get the rear of the car as high as possible, and you should be good!

 

You gotta have an update for us.... I haven't been able to get anything done.

I'm sitting around waiting on parts. I started working on my truck a little bit. Makes me feel like I'm cheating on the TA

 

Lol, she'll forgive you.

Waiting on parts is time consuming indeed.
I made some decent progress this weekend. Tranny, fuel pump, trans cooler are all in. I also started installing cooling and misc plumbing.
No real big issues at the moment, things have come along very well.

I think I want to replace the factory valve covers, clearance looks a little tighter than I like. I tried using a very thick gasket but not sure how it will work, we'll see.

 

yep those new pictures look really good.........

 

Lol,
Been too busy in and under under the car to take pictures!
Things are moving along well, just trying to get the wiring looms as tidy as I can for the time being.
Engine bay is starting to look crowded and messy again!

I have a little issue with the mass air flow, it wont fit the between the serpentine set up A/C clutch and the rad support.
I know that the 88-89 had the corrugated tube come along the front of the rad, instead of the 87 plastic boxes, so I may have to search one out.
I tell you, the 87's were a bastard year!

 

rotate the MAF 90* so the connector is on the bottom. that's how mine is.

Just looking at those pics, there are a ton of differences between your car and my '88!

 

Lol, yes, big differences!
I can see rotating will work, I was thinking of making a open element type system with painted pvc or abs.

 

Can't believe this thread is still going. Saw a blurb somewhere through about an exhaust. I'm running a Hooker Aerochamber catback on my car this year w/factory tailpipes. Like the sound much better than the ultra flo that I had last year.

I'm sending a friend of mine over htats building a 383 for his IROC. I think the cam discussion in the middle would be intriguing to him as he needs to choose.

 

Threads still going because gbay is taking his sweet ol time getting this done so we can see the outcome!!!!

 

!
I like the audience!

Joking.

From start to finish is about 6 months, not toooooo bad! Lot of work, crap ton of $$$, among running a house hold and business!
I am finally 90% there.
I feel good about getting it cranked up two weekends from now.

 

Getting closer by the day now!

Pinned the exhaust back up. Dyno dons headers and y pipe fit very well!

Car is so clean I was able re-used 24 year exhaust u-bolts clamps!

All my air pump and coolant plumbing is done. The air pump stuff was a royal pain and I wonder if the serpentine swap was worth the money and work involved. Much more work than i was lead to believe, from pretty much modifying the whole air pump system to lengthening wires to the accessories.

I am down to placing 4-5 vacuum lines, and fuel line work, choosing a start up program/chip, and a few other small things.

I also ended up removing the EGR system. I am not too happy with the left side of the engine since its so crowded, more important at the moment is to get it running, I can worry about the looks later.

Anything else you guys can think of before i turn the key over?

 

Well........ finally, the day arrived!
Got her cranked. She runs, had a few little coolant leaks to fix, thats done.
Everything seems okay mechanically, really need to get the tune going now. She runs so-so cold, and than it goes to hell as it warms up abit. I have to get it stable, start with intial base timing, get the richness out of it as it warms because shes running like a pig.
My problem is going to be the 42 lbs injectors, got to slow them down at idle, and go from there. My exhaust pipes are hot as hell, and i am worried that it is running so rich, and so much fuel is getting dumped in that I may hurt my exhaust valves.

I may have to noob out and start a tuning thread!

 

Did you change the injector constant to 42 lbs? Maybe even higher until you sort things out?

 

Yes, set at 42. The bin is one from orr and the engine is very similar to my build, mind you, this First intake may be a total different animal. I may try the factory arap, pull out a bunch of timing, turn off egr, set injector constant at 42 and go from there.

 

I "noobed up" a long time ago

Just started mine up again today too. I posted a datalog, cuz right now, I have no clue what I'm looking at on it . If you can help me out in any way, post up in my tuning thread "time to bite the bullet and post up".

Oh, congrats on getting her running

 

Lol thx, i have been following your tune thread,

I think you know more than me!
I need to figure out how to data log still.

Had it running again and set the timing, much better today but I had to cut it short.. getting late and the thing is freaking loud!! Dont want the neighbors on my azz

I want to lean it out at part throttle to see how it reacts.

Baby steps!

 

how much timing do you have in it? Too little and it will have excessive exhaust temps.

 

If you mean intial timing, I set it to six, the other tune were 10. Tough to tell the difference because it is rich at idle. I think I figured out the data logging, so at least now I can get a better look at things.I will try it again this afternoon and start a First intake tuning thread!

 

I meant overall timing. 6-10 base is fine if the motor can run there, and then set that into your bin file. Overall timing at idle areas should be around 24-26 deg for starters. Bigger cammed/higher compression stuff usually likes more timing

 

thanks,
Overall timing in the idle areas is about 23-30 deg. I wanted to datalog some today but its raining out now. Once I datalog, It will be easier to diagnose my conditions and at that point I think it would be wise to start a thread in the diy!

 

I wanted to thank everyone for the incredible amount of help, knowledge, and time given in helping me complete my build.
Its not done yet, but time to move onto the tuning end of things!

I posted over there under
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...83-tuning.html

any tuning help would be appreciated!

I will keep posting here as things progress with the tune and additional build.

 

wow i just read through this whole thread, glad you got it running, i am also glad to see another FIRST setup in ontario, i put mine on my car 2 years ago and have loved it since, my build is nowhere near as good as yours is though, so i will be watching to see how much your motor makes for power with the FIRST. Also when you figure out your tuning i might have to pick your brain, I still am running mine off the factory tune, but i definately need some custom tuning done.

 

Awesome, you won't see many in Onatario, that's for sure!
What other mods do you have? I started a tuning thread in DIY section, you may want to follow along there. Not sure how much help I can be, but more than happy to try!

 

Mine is a 355 with flat top pistons, hooker 2055 headers, dynomax catback, trickflow aluminum heads(some work done to them http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....2&autoview=sku) comp cams extreme energy 269 ( http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=195&sb=2), comp cams magnum 1.6 roller tip rockers(http://www.compcams.com/information/...gnumRoller.asp) . I have also converted the car to a t56 and have put a 4th gen aluminum driveshaft in it. With the FIRST injection I had to run a thicker intake gasket due to it not lining up correctly, I also converted to the serpentine system because the older v-belt system sucked(you will be glad you converted).

I do know that my car is screaming for a different rear gear in it( i have a 3.23 limited slip) and I still need to hook up my speedometer. I also need to convert the program on my chip to a manual transmission from the program for the automatic.

I am also running the stock 165 computer(mass air) but since my car was originally a carb car I used a painless wiring harness to convert it.

 

That's a stout combo you have there! You are leaving Hp on the table however.
How well does it run with stock tuning?

 

it runs well, a little rich but than that is expected. i was quite surprized that it would run as well as it does. to tell the truth untill you get on it it sounds stock not very loud(which was a must with our kids). i am looking forward to getting it tuned one day, and than i can start looking for my next project.

 

How frustrating......I am pulling the tranny out today!
My flexplate has more 'flex' than I like. The flexplate was touching the starter (mini starter) sprocket at first start, so I shimmed it out and it is okay idling and running in park. Took the car for a slow spin arouind the block and noticed the odd clank from below, looked at the gap between starter and flexplate and it is close to 1/8", but the plate wobbles enough to hit it occasionally. For piece of mind I need to have a closer look.

 

i feel your pain! lol My car started right up this morning, took it for a spin, 30 min later batterys dead Gotta love the new build issues lol

 

I finally have some drive time!

Been busy with work and dealing with small quirks with the car, most of them my fault! However, she is driveable and I have been getting some seat and tuning time behind the wheel.
Just starting to feel the potential of the combination, and overall I am very pleased!
I love the manners of the car, with a stock catback it is "relatively" quiet, docile by nature (good cam choice), but when you get into it..... sounds nasty nice! Not sure if I want my magnaflow anymore, I dont mind where it is now.
It has a bit of lope but idles well and runs very smoothly.
Here's a short pull video, afraid to hammer it wot and trying not to bang the trans too much, so i let off abit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_0dQkDToXY

 

wish mine was that quite. She sounds good with a stock pipe. Lets forget about being easy on the trans and post another video :P

 

lol, soon enough. Dana from probuilt told me to chill out for at least 20-30 miles to help work the trans in, I am pretty much there.

I have some spark being pulled so I need to be careful!

 

wow that is quiet...i could never hear tires peeling out in my cars...even bolt on L98 haha.

 

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but who did you buy your fuel injectors from?

 

John, from Injectors Plus. I bought the Bosch III 42lbs injectors (new), AFPR, and First intake as one complete package.

 

Heres a few photos of the intake, dont mind the ghetto tape holding the filter! Waiting on a coupler to finish it off. The filter is also temp, but I will be using some kind of cone filter.
The intake tubing consists of,
-4 inch wide short extension from tb and coupled to a 4inch to 3 inch 90*elbow (reduced to 3 inch after elbow), connected directly to maf, out from maf to 45* 3 inch elbow.

Very close to hood, it actually rubs the insulation but clears just enough!

Engine bay still needs to be cleaned up alot, but i am more worried about getting it running first.

On another note. I am doing the rest of the exhaust. Doing new cat, pipe to back, and magnaflow style muffler. I have a local guy who manufactures the cats and mufflers and can build anything I need.
I am undecided on size, should I do 3 1/2inch or 4 inch to back? I am thinking 4 is huge, and 3.5' or even 3' would work better for me. What do you guys think?

 

I am using a 3.5" catback and making 420rwhp. That would be my vote with the horsepower potential your motor has.

 

420! wow, your getting some serious ponies to those back wheels
I dont think I will be anywhere near that, i am guesing 350ish.

What Cat/s are you running,and are they single or dual cat?
Based on your output, I think the 3.5 would be plenty, even for future mods, if any.

 

Running dual cats. They are Magnaflow 3 inchers. I am probably at the point that with any more power the 3.5" catback may start to hurt things some. I just hope the exhaust has cooled off enough at that point that it does not need a larger diameter.

 

Just firmed up with the exhaust guy, I am going 3.5 inch, new Cat, with the air tube intack, magnaflow muffler. Not going stainless, aluminized is good enough for a 2-3k km a year car, and its well priced.

Booked for dyno tuning on the 12th of July! getting closer by the day, I hope to get out and time test at the track soon!

 

Exhaust is done. A small change of plans, I decided to try a 3 inch cat back.
New bullet high flow Cat, stainless pipe, mandrel bent. One into two magnaflow. Sounds good, not too loud, but distinct!
I think the 3 inch will flow what I need while maintaining great mid range torque and crisp throttle response, I was worried about the 3,5 being too big for my purpose, exhaust guy thought the same. He has seen some big hp numbers pulled with 3 inch singles.. If I feel it is too restrictive, I will sell it and do a 3.5 later.
One more step, dyno time is Tuesday!

Cruise video with new pipes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTGYnV75dLo

 

sounds very nice, i think the 3 in cat back was a good choice, couldve gone for a few more WOT pulls

 

lol, I know. Comp is still pulling too much timing for my likeing. I hope by tuesday it will be figured out, than i can have some real fun!

 

i heard it break loose going into second a couple times

 

where are you located in ontario?

 

Probably did, it usually breaks out hard into second just messing around, I have yet to let it go wot into second, should be fun when I can!

I will tel you, I LOVE the Pro built trans street/ strip kit, with the 2600 vigilante, the trans feels world class now instead of feeling like its full of bubble gum. Props to Dana from pro built!


Burlington, I think you're in Barrie?

 

Jelouse!!!!!

i was sooo far ahead of you of completion but the tides have turned lol My car sits in the driveway awaiting rockers to get adjusted again, oil change, windshield, vibration, interior......List goes on lol

Car sounds sick, cant wait to see the dyno #'s and track #'s

 

lol, slow and steady wins the race!

Why do your rockers need adjusting, Do you hear them clacking? I haven't touched mine since the build.
Have you found the source of the vibration?

 

Update.
Finally went in for some dyno time.
Good news and bad news!

Good news: Motor held together, we did no less than 15 hard pulls and nothing broke! I am confident that the motor and trans will work well for some time.

Bad news:
We could get no more than 310hp to my back tires final tune:
310 hp @ 4850 rpm
390lbs@ 4100 rpm
motor WOULD not make power/climb past 5000, and fell off fast from that point!! We pulled to 6000ish a few times but were fruitless in attempt.

Atm, not sure what to make of it. I have many variables at play here and need to start somewhere.
A few concerns, from the top:
my original build and dyno on a carb and cranked to 512 @ 5500 and 499ft/lbs @5000. Assuming these numbers are not a lie, I may be leaving close to 80hp rwhp on the table.
Now, some crank dynos have been known to be a little 'optimistic' Lets say my engine puts out a true 475hp at the crank (sounds more realistic),
This should equate to approximately 350 rwhp, that means i am still over 40hp shy! I paid good money for that 40 hp, I need to find it!!

Peak rpm is very low, I am leaving at least 6-700 power building rpms on the table, why is it quiting at 4800rpm is the big question.
I think if i can get it to peak back up to the 5500 rpm area, I will get my 40hp back and some.

I talked to Ken at FIRST, and he is baffled as well, he did mention that he has seen good tuners get 50-60 hidden hp out of combos, i dont know if i have that much in my tune to pull out. Unless i can find a restriction somewhere in the intake tract, i dont know how i can get more out of it when my Afr's are perfect 13:1 across the power band under wot.
He knows the stock First should pull past 5000 with out issues, the intake has also dynoed at higher than my 310 rwhp, so it is capable.

I need to get out and data log some runs to try and find what may be up, but I have been busy with business and had to fix a header leak that accured on the last few dyno pulls. its fixed now and i will do some runs tonight.
My thoughts are:
1- my engine really only puts out 400hp crank horsepower and my builders dyno is wrong
2- my current tune is limiting my output
3- the FIRST intake as delivered is restricting my heads and cam from its true power peak.

Ken is sending me some new runners for experimenting (regardless of what happens), I want to open the runners and plenum to 1.9 inch versus the stock 1.8, and i also want to siamese the other set to see what that does tp peak rpm. If the intake is the limiting factor, i want to find out.
Stay tuned!
Sorry for the long post!

 

Lots of power is made or lost in the spark advance. Just a thought. Are you still seeing a bunch of spark pulled due to knock? After I swapped in my headers, my knock counts went up a bunch, but I've never seen a hint of detonation on my plugs. I'm pushing 37-38* with no signs of detonation except for the knock count.