Can't seem to find an intro thread so here is my first post. I picked up an 87 GTA a couple weeks ago for $500. Interior is almost perfect, decent paint, dent in the passenger side rear fender (fixable), cracked block, 144,xxx miles. I've been wanting one of these since I was a kid and I couldn't pass up a chance to own one and eventually get her on the road where she belongs. I've been contemplating routes to take for engine options and what not. The route I thought I would take, considering this is going to be a year or so long project, was to buy a block and rebuild my own motor, using everything I could from the old L98 and getting good used parts or rebuilt ones for what I couldn't use from the old engine. I didn't plan on going crazy with money I didn't really have or to try and maximize HP with the rebuild unless I could squeeze out a little here and there for relatively cheap. I figured to be around 300 HP or so at most when I got it on the road. I planned on rebuilding the 700R4 also or getting a relatively cheaper one online somewhere, brand new. I've seen plenty under a G and I was just gonna research and see who's all reputable and such if I decided not to rebuild it (get it rebuilt would be more correct). Well I'm no mechanic and know little to nothing about tearing down or rebuilding. Knowing this didn't keep me from buying an LT1 Shortblock yesterday. Again, the price was just too good to pass up. I got a freshly honed block, stock piston and new rings in great shape w/ ARP rods, stock crank and cam. A gasket set for the entire engine, oil pan, all for $200. Since I'm not an engine expert in the least bit I'm kind of at the point where I feel I'm over my head with an LT1 swap into a Third Gen but the prospects of the situation were too tempting. Now I got to rethink the whole scenario. I really wanted to keep Fuel Injection but now it is going to get pricey. I know my 700R4 will work but if I'm gonna replace the thing then obviously I should go with the 4L60. So now I will use this forum to vent a little and listen to some guys who know way more than me for some advice and experiences. I'm thinking if I stick with the LT1 then this project is gonna take a couple years to complete. A soldier's salary only goes so far, especially in this economy.

 

is this your first post? welcome enjoy your car. for me its better to have a running "good" car than wait years to be able to drive it. maybe you can find an honest person with a good 350 and just stick that in using the tpi.

 

1) A 4L60 is a 700R4 - there's no difference. They just changed the name in 1993 to get folks to start getting used to the new naming that was coming. I think what you are thinking about is the 4L60E - which is an electronic controlled tranny. To use it, you'll need a PCM for the 4L60E - not cheap. Stick with the 700R4/4L60.

2) Any 'new' 700R4 for under $1000 is not worth having - run far and fast. Spent $800-$1200 to rebuild yours, or spend the $1400+ on a Pro-Built Automatic. From what I've read about any other brands out there on the net, I wouldn't buy anything but Pro-Built. If you talk to some local car guys (find the cruise-ins and local shows, even classic cars 'cause nowadays all the Chevelles have 700R4's in them), you should be able to get a line on a good rebuilder locally that should rebuild for under $1000.

 

Well, you went on a bunny trail with the LT1 shortblock. Get it sold as quickly as possible so you can get back on track. Then buy a Gen I 350 shortblock, rebuild it, and stick it under your L98 stuff.

 

Yeah, that was my thinking too. I get confused though when I start to read about these heads go with this intake and 86 and up angled this and this block won't work with those heads. I guess I need a no sh*t, this is exactly what will work with little to no issues and this is what you need to stay away from because you're a broke a** dude. This is what I know so far I think. Any old SBC 350 block will work. Heads I need the ones with the correct bolt holes for the intake, like '86 and up I think. After that I just start putting stuff together I guess. Obviously it is more difficult than just typing it but you get the meaning. If my heads aren't shot in the car I will just use them, after getting them fixed up with whatever they do to make heads better. Am I at least pointed in the right direction here? Will these LT1 pistons be of any use? What about these new ARP connecting rods, can I used them on something else? They are 5.7s I believe. They pistons aren't installed, no bearings. How much should I sell this thing for?

 

Heads are '87-up. If the block is cracked, the heads may be okay, but get them checked out.

A 350 that is '87-up would be preferred as well, as it (most likely) has roller lifter provision (what your L98 has). If the engine wasn't run with water in the oil, you may be able to use cam, lifters, etc., in the "new" shortblock. Truck 350's '87-'95 are plentiful, and would most likely cost you a lot less than a passenger car 350. The parts that make up the differences between truck & passenger car will be replaced or swapped over, anyway.

You might be able to use the pistons in a Gen I 350, but I think I'd just sell them with the LT1 block and get whatever the Gen I needs.

You might try to get more out of the LT1 block than you have in it, but I'd concentrate on getting it out of the way (without losing money, if possible).

 

Yeah, I had that wrong now that I think about it. The heads have to match the block with the angles of the bolts or something like that so to get 87 and up heads to match a block without drilling something, I need an 87 and up block. So am I right when I say it doesn't matter if I get a 4-bolt main or a 2-bolt, correct? What about these ARP connecting rods I got, should I keep them and use them? I think I have the original LT1 rods to sell with the engine if I could use the ARP ones.

 

You want an 87 and up block WITH roller cam provisions so you can hopefully re-use your existing valvetrain (cam and lifters). Roller cam (vs flat tappet) is much preferred and more efficient.

Any year heads will fit the 87-up block. The intake to head bolts (middle ones) are angled on the later heads, so you need the later heads (or re-use yours) to fit your intake.

You don't 'need' the ARP stuff. A 300 HP 350 will do fine with the stock stuff. If you can sell them for $, I'd consider it.

 

Would a ZZ4 Roller block and Vortex heads fit the description? I found it for $800

 

It would, other than the Vortec heads requiring a Vortec-specific intake base.

 

Using a different Intake base? Does that mean I can't use my TPI or is that something different. Is the intake manifold not part of my TPI or does the TPI sit on a manifold and with vortec heads I will just need a different manifold than the one I have? And if I still can use the TPI with the vortec friendly intake, what will I have to do different with a different intake on the motor? I know I got a ton of questions and they are probably some real beginner level stuff that I'm asking on here. Sorry if I'm coming off dumb. I'm not a total idiot when it comes to cars. Motors are definitely my weak point outside of changing oil or basic maintenance stuff.

 

The only TPI intake base available for the Vortecs is pretty expensive. You may want to sell the Vortec heads and use the proceeds towards re-building yours.

 

I didn't buy it yet. I was just seeing if it was usable for my app before I bought another. Thanks for all the info guys. Now at least I got an idea of what I need to stay within budget and actually getting the car running. Until I have another issue that baffles me.......which shouldn't be too far in the future. Thanks!

 

Do I need the roller cam provisions if I'm not using the lower end from my L98? For instance, if I buy a built shortblock can I use my own heads, intake, and TPI if it's not a roller cam motor like what you were talking about? What I was thinking was getting a decently built shortblock, nothing crazy, and getting my L98 Heads worked up and the TPI worked on for some better flow. Does this sound correct?

 

You can put your heads on any Gen I SBC block.

If you go with flat tappets, you can't use the pushrods from your roller lifter engine.

 

To re-use your existing cam and valve train you need a roller block='87 or later. Save you the cost of new cam, lifters and rods.

The roller block will also have the better one piece rear main seal.

The roller valvetrain will be more efficient than a flat tappet valvetrain.

You won't have to worry about using special oils or additives with a roller motor.

Don't go backwards to inferior technology.

 

So if I put my heads on a pre 87 shortblock then the only thing that wouldn't work is my push rods?

 

push rods, lifters and cam

You'll also need to ensure it has the right hand (pass side) dipstick, as many pre-87 motors have it on the other side.

 

And timing set. But that's usually installed new when you have an engine apart.

 

Got it. I thought a shortblock came with the cam and all that jazz on the bottom end. Is the dipstick being on the driver's side an end all? Is it really that big of a deal?

 

I'm just gonna stop with all the questions and just look for an 87+ shortblock. Before that I guess I need to tear my engine apart and see what all can still be used.

 

Buying a Vortec specific base would be cheaper than rebuilding the heads. A quality valve job alone costs as much or more than a Vortec base for the tpi plenum.

If you just want to slap the stock LT1 into the car and leave everything else alone (engine internals, stock LT1 heads and intake that you'll find, rear end, suspension, etc.) then you're not looking at enormous costs, as compared to rebuilding an older roller block. You'd need a harness, PCM, different radiator hoses (I think I read on here that 5.0 Mustang hoses work with the LT1 water pump-to-third gen radiator setup), and you'd need a water pump for an LT1, and heads and intake, fuel rails, fuel injectors, and some small parts to make for a clean install. You can find heads for an LT1 that are still assembled for $200 on CamaroZ28forums.com or other sites if you search around.

Wish I still had my stock LT1 heads. I'd have sold them to you for cheap.

There are some good LT1 swap threads on here if you click on the LSX/LTX swap forum link. My thread should be pretty good, once it's done...he he he.

I've learned a lot during my LT1 swap, as it has slowly progressed. I used to be a four cylinder nut, and I knew very little about the small block chevy. The cool thing is that I am learning a lot about it now.

Kthxbai has a good thread, and there are other ones that are done, too.

It's up to you. That's what's cool about it. I'm kinda going nuts with my LT1 swap (383 forged rotating assembly, worked over GM heads and valvetrain upgrade, LTCC ignition conversion, rear end build and swap, total interior replacement, T-56 tranny, suspension, C-4, brakes, etc.), so it will take more money and time. I hate waiting, but it'll be worth it, when it's done.

The more time I have to think about it, the more I want to do, since the car is down to bare nothing, pretty much. The other day I decided I wanted the C-4 brakes up front, when I was looking at changing the motor mount inserts, so there's another $700. Then I decided I should get new struts and shocks and springs, so there's another pile of cash. A guy could go nuts and build a whole new car!

I was researching the LT1 and found that the optispark can fail, due to rotor shattering or leaking coolant into the optispark, so I then decided I wanted the LTCC ignition, so now I had to get LS1 coils, the ignition box, and I need to make brackets to hold the coils. It never ends.

You can do as much or as little as you want, whether you swap in a TPI or an LT1 or any engine.

Also, THANK YOU for your service to our country. I got out of the Corps in 1994, and I appreciate all of our servicemen and women and veterans.

 

You always want to check your push rod length when rebuilding an engine or when building a new engine. You want proper valvetrain geometry, according to your lifter, rocker arm, and cam selection. Sometimes you need to get push rods that are a different length than stock ones, to keep the proper valve train geometry, after you've changed cams, lifters, rockers, head gaskets, or milled the heads, etc.

 

I'm sorry. I assumed new timing set.

Driver's side dipstick is a PITA. The exhaust manifolds interfere with it. Don't go there.

The closer you get to what was originally there, the more of your existing parts you can use and less overall $ spent. You may find a pre-87 block at slightly less cost but it's not worth it (and shouldn't amount to more than maybe $100).

I also made my last exit through the gates at LeJeune in March 94. 2/2. Small forum

 

Semper Fi

I got out in November 1994....Henderson Hall, Arlington, Virginia. They kept telling me I was going to Bosnia, but they never sent me.

I told the Colonel, "I'll just need my M-16, and I'm good to go."

 

"Shortblock" isn't a legally-defined term. It usually means at a minimum the block, crank, rods, pistons, bearings, and rings. It sometimes includes some or all of the following: cam, timing set, lifters, oil pump, front cover, oil pan, rear seal, damper, flexplate/flywheel, water pump.

It isn't a problem at all if you install headers.

 

Even when the dipstick tube is on the passenger side, you still usually have to work around it and mess with it to make it the way it should be when installing headers. At least, I had to bend it around a little to make it sit where I wanted it.

I imagine it's really no different on the driver's side.

It's so tempting to use the LT1, though, because it is a good engine.