NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Yup I won't forget this step.

And thanks gary, I'll do it that way. I definetly dont want to wash off the lube.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I'm not insanely worried about port matching because in the future (when i actually have money) I plan on changing the heads/intake/rockers. I do however have the tools, resources, and some skill required to port match them myself.

It sounds like the build is still on for sunday. Finally got a hold of an engine builder who can install my lock rings tomorrow.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Let me know what you find with your break-in oil research, I'm interested to find out, especially for use in a roller block.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So after all the running around and the last minute b.s. we cleaned the entire block, set the ring end gaps and installed the crank. So i have a question about the windage tray. Is the one from the 95 truck block different from mine from my 91 305? and if so i might have to get different main cap bolts depending on the trays mounting points. I think im gonna buy some ARP main bolts anyways, i jist need to know how many of each style i need. Besdies that everything went great.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Update:

So I decided im not using a windage tray the mounts on the main bolts, I'm going to by an oil pan i saw on another thread here that has a windage screen and crank scrapper. So I ordered ARP main bolts so i dont have to re-use the factory ones (which was the plan so i could re-use the truck windage tray). So the bolts came in today about 10 minutes before work (I work second shift) and this was my only free day until probably saturday. Hopefully i can do a little work friday too and get the bottom end done this weekend. I have a race on sunday (autocross) and my brakes are acting up, so this is my main focus to get ready for the race.

These small hang-ups are starting to annoy me. I should have had the bottom end done today.

Screamin82 Z28

Sounds like you are making progress. These hang ups are always involved with projects. The key is not getting impatient and trying to move too fast. <--This is where I have made mistakes in the past. Take your time, double check, do it 100%, and you will not regret it! Good luck!

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Definetly making progress, my hang up with the spiral locks actually was a VERY good thing. It brought me to an expirienced engine builder who showed me my rod to pin clearance was 5/ TEN thousandths too tight. So he taught then let me hone them to the correct size.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Also pictures are soon to come

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Heres some pictures of my car, I understand the paint is shitty but the rest of the car has been kept in good condition.

The bra from the third picture has been taken off (it was on when i bought the car) and thats a z28 hood from an '84.

Screamin82 Z28

Looks like it is in good shape. Paint is the very last thing I did to my car as well. I enjoy building the engine, drivetrain, and mechanical aspects far more. Nice paint is a bonus.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, like i tell everyone, "It doesnt have to look good if it can beat you in a race". The funny thing is, I haven't won anything better than 3rd in a race yet! haha. Hopefully that changes on sunday.

But in all seriousness, the interior, suspension, chasis and engine are in great shape and are taken of very well. So besides the paint and tranny, i have a very good starting point for a project car.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So i had a good amount of time to work on the engine on saturday. Even though I lost about an hour of it changing a wheel bearing. I have the rotating assmebly in, the cam in, the roller lifters in and one head on. I ran into two problems. The first on is the machininst tapped the holes for the spyder with the wrong size, but that was an easy fix. Now the second one is a tiny bit more complicated. My cam has the bolt style for 87-up, but my timing set apparetnly is for 86-earlier. So now I need to get another timing set and I think im going to use a thrust plate (I'll have to drill and tap the holes) instead of the cam button I have. Next step will be to put the other head on and get the roller rockers on so i can measure for pushrod length. I will get pictures up tonight or tomorrow.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So it's not letting me upload any pictures right now, but I'll try again tomorrow.

I ordered the correct timing set and thrust plate to the cam which should be in tomorrow. We have wedding crap and lots of other stuff going on this weekend so i doubt I'll be able to work on this anymore until early next week. Hopefully things keep going as smoothly as they have been. I have to drill and tap for the thrust plate, put the timing stuff together, get the other head on the once the pushrods are measured for and ordered, this thing should be ready for the dyno.

I'll try to get pics up soon. The engine looks very good. After it was acid dipped and cleaned up real well, we put 2 good coats of the VHT engine enamel on (GM satin black) which came out looking great, and that along with the aluminum heads and shiny hypereutectic pistons makes it look bad***.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Im trying to upload some pictures, lets see if this works.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I'll have more time to work on it tomorrow, hopefully I'll get to measuring the pushrods then I'll have everything i need.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I'd upload some pictures of our "engine shed" but its too much of a pain in the a** to upload pictures for some reason. We have blocks, heads, rotating assemblies, cams, and all other parts for some small blocks, big blocks, lsx, l92 (6.2L vortec from an escalade).

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So yesterday we got the second head on, the thrust plate amd timing set on, the timing cover on and the intake manifold on. We measured for pushrods and 7.100" is what we measured, so after i get paid next friday i will order that with some other small stuff (rms, plugs, dizzy) and should be ready for a dyno day sometime in june.

The only problem this time was the locking plate on the cam bolts was also the 86-earlier bolt pattern, so i just used some medium strength loctite on those bolts. Also when installing the intake we put RTV around the water passages and a pretty large bead across the walls with overlap on the intake gaskets and head. So there should be no leakage problems.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

The rest of the parts will be ordered this weekend, then its ready for the dyno.

Parts being ordered:

Fel-Pro 1 piece rear main seal
MSD Street fire HEI distributor (vaccum advance)
Moroso 8mm wires
NGK V-power spark plugs (ngk-fr5)
Oil pan and 1 piece gasket (6 quart, has crank scrapper, windage screen, and baffles, since I'm not running a windage tray)
Pushrods (trickflow, chromoly, hardened, 5/16ths)

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Here's pictures of the almost finished engine. You have to open the pictures up in micrsoft word because the sizes are too big when i send them from my phone.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So Ive been doing some suspension work lately and been focused on my autocrossing, but I'm back to working on the engine and have a question. When setting the rockers up, i know the procedure is once you have the #1 intake lifter on the base circle of the cam, you adjust it and then turn the engine over 1/4 of a turn and go through the firing order. My question is, is it a 1/4 turn refering to the crank sprocket or the cam sprocket?

Screamin82 Z28

I can't answer this because when I did my rockers I used a different method. I would do the intake side to 0 lash + half a turn when the exhaust port was open. Go thru the entire firing order. Then do the exhaust the same way when each intake lifter is at the top of its motion. At least that's what I recall, it has been a couple of years so I am not 100% on this. It may work out to the exact same thing as a 1/4 turn, that I can't answer. If I had to guess it would be the crank. The logic behind the method I used is when the intake is full open it is guaranteed the exhaust is closed completely, and the opposite is true. Hence getting the push rod to 0 lash and a 1/2 turn at the bottom of the lobe.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Sounds good, maybe I'll do that. I guess the order of doing them dosn't matter, as long as I'm adjusting the rockers while the lifter is on the base circle.

Just and update for anyone still following:

Distributor, wires and plugs just came in. Next paycheck will be oil pan and oil pick up to match the high volume pump then it'll be ready for the dyno. Desktop dyno says 431hp @ 6500 rpm, 409tq @ 5000 rpm. I think it will be almost opposite of that (409hp and 431tq). I cant see the torqe being that low but I guess we'll find out soon.
Either way, I think it should be a streetable engine with a nice lope to it.

Screamin82 Z28

I am going to correct myself here. I looked into it and this is what I did. Intake all the way open just starting to close adjust exhaust valve of that cylinder. Then exhaust just beginning to open adjust intake. Spin pushrod till you feel slight resistance, once you feel resistance do it up another 1/2 turn.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Yup thats the plan. I was wondering about the 1/4 turn/firing order way jus so its easier to keep track of which ones i have already done.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Update:

Oil pan has just been ordered, so we'll be finishing this up next week or the next week.

One question, can i use my stock starter (from 305 tbi) on this engine for DYNO ONLY? I want to get this dyno'd but it might be a few weeks before i can get a good starter so I'm wondering if it will turn over a 10:1 engine? Like i said, for dyno only, it WILL have a new starter when it goes in the car

Screamin82 Z28

My stock starter turned over my 10:1 360 for years. I recently bought a mini high torque starter because my exhaust was running so close to the stock starter it was getting heat soaked. When it got heat soaked it wouldn't turn the motor over. That was the only problem I had.

Screamin82 Z28

Also I hope your exhaust is not run in the stock location. If it does, it runs between the cross member and the oil pan. Not all oil pans work for this application. I know because I put in the motor everything hooked up, went to hook up the exhaust last and WHAM! Didn't have the space between the cross member and the oil pan to cut across to the passenger side.... F**! Start again. If you run straight back you will be fine.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I ordered a stock pan for now, until i have money for a nicer one. BUt the plan for the exhaust is to run 3-bolt flange mufflers right off the headers and kick the pipes out in front of the rear wheels... it'll be difficult but we'll see how it goes.

Screamin82 Z28

Clearance will be the hard part. I had long tubes to 2.5" dual past the transmission then to a single 3" from there run to the back. I dragged that system on EVERYTHING. I went to SLP shorties run in the stock location and am much happier with it. If you can get it to hang right dumping it before the rear wheels would look good, but clearance could be real bad, esp with the mufflers right by the headers.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Never goin to get mufflers off headers like that. They will hit subframe and transmission before then

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure? They aren't like your normal rectangular muffler, it almost looks like a glasspack.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Flowtech/387/5...FRCe4AodaV4A-w


Also, either of you guys know if the stock pan will work with the longer stroke? I'm using 5.7 I-beam rods.

Orr, do you have any answer to my rocker adjusting question?

Screamin82 Z28

You can make anything work, seems to me that you may be best off just going with a muffler similar to that, but waiting until you are past the transmission to install it. Trial and error is going to be key to getting that to work.

As for oil pan clearance from the crank, I am not sure. You can always spin the motor by hand and see where it hits. Then clearance it yourself.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Yea I'm going to check for pan clearnance, I just want to get everything ready if i know for sure that i need to clearance it.

Exhaust wise, I am going to try to make it work with those mufflers because i think it would look awesome with pipes coming out infront of the rear wheels, but if i have to I can just run a different setup.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Also i got two autocross races this weekend (back to back!). I'll try to give us third gen guys a good rep haha

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Basically how i do mine. Intake 2/3 closed, do exhaust valve. Exhaust valve just starts to open, do intakes. I do each one at a time. Ls7 lifters i do 1/3 or 1/4 turn. Morels i do 3/4-1 turn.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Im using stock lifters from Chevy Performance. Im thinking 1/2 turn should do it.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Also, what kind of pattern am i looking for on the valves? the rocker starting towards exhaust and sweeping to center? or starting in center and sweeping to intake? im sure a symmetrical sweep dead center is best, but probably hard to obtain.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I was always told narrowest sweep pattern closest to center. Narrowest may not be exactly centered tho. But i used this method ln my last setup and had worn guides from wrong pushrod length. Not sure why that happened. Was kind of a funky setup with offset rockers so that may have had some influence on it at high rpm

You can search the internet for days on that subject and find various views. Main ones are dead center pattern no matter what, or find narrowest sweep.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Yea ive seen so many different opinions. This wont be a high rpm application so im sure i wont need to get it perfect. Ill take pics for you guys and if any where down the road i have problems ill be able to show everyone what my pattern was that caused the problems.

Thanks for all the help guys. These things can get overwhelming for and 18 year old, especually when i cant afford to do it again haha any guesses on hp/tq numbers?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I also dont think the exhaust pipe idea will work with long tubes. There isnt much straight room from collector to trans subframe and crossmember. I and most on here have made y pipes for their long tubes and used some type of s bend to get under and around the trans subframe.

You should install the motor and headers first to see what room you do have and go from there

You can make extensions off the header and then run long bullet type mufflers in driveshaft tunnel and still exit out the front of the rear tires

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Yea, exhaust will be done last, im no spending any money on it until everything s installed

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the mis spells and badly formed sentences, it sucks doing this from a phone.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So my pushrods ended up being too short. With 7.100"s the rocker body would bottom out on top of the hex part of the stud before we could preload it. So I sent them back in exchange for 7.200"s (we measured correctly this time) so the engine is on hold again.

I also wanted to buy a new rear main seal housing, but i can only find one at summit, which wont ship until 7/29. So maybe I'll check ebay. I dont NEED a new one, but considering I haven't reused a single part or bolt (except the oil pump bolt) i figured i'd keep that trend going and get a new one.

So basically all we could do today was set the oil pickup depth and weld it up, and install the oil filter adapter. So I guess you could say it was a very productive day (NOT).

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Also I answered my own question about the 1/4 turn on the crank or cam. It's the CRANK that needs the quarter turn, which makes sense because it will take 8 quarter turns to make the cam spin one full time, and obvioulsy with 8 cylinders there is going to be 8 different spots on the cam where one of the cylinders will have both lifter on the base circle (compression stroke).

Screamin82 Z28

Good to know. Makes perfect sense.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

So I'll have my pushrods in late next week. I noticed that my fel-pro gasket kit did'nt come with an oil pump gasket, and that there are only 2 different ones available through jegs, which i found to be a little weird. Upon further searching, i see that a lot of people won't use a gasket for the oil pumps in big or small blocks. I figure that if GM puts them on from the factory (because there was one on there when i tore down the original 350) that i should use one just to be safe. So i got one of the "dead soft copper" gaskets.

Also, I got a new RMS housing, just bought it off of ebay.

I called up the dyno place today and they told me I'd be looking around $450-550 for tuning and pulls. I guess it's around $100 per hour, but he said that you also have to pay for the 2 hour setup and 1 hour tear down. So at this point I'm leaning away from that option and leaning more towards a chasis dyno when i finish up the rest of the drivetrain.

Anyways, should be another week, possibly two, to finish this thing up. I guess having the wrong pushrods did buy me a little more time to get those few extra things that i was going to skimp out on. It's been a long process but this is only the begininng, I'm still looking for a trans. Hoping to find one in the junk yard next week, theyre running a $75 special. I found a few good rebuild kits between $300-400 for t5s, to replace seals, bearing, and syncro rings. I plan on doing that then next year getting a whole new gear cluster and possibly a G-Force case.

Screamin82 Z28

I did a self tune at the dyno in my area (MA) and it was $100/hr (15 minute intervals, minimum of 1 hr) starting with your first pull on a mustang dyno. It took me 2 hours to tune in the AFR and timing. I got my car from 220 up to 260 rwhp during that time. I am a carbed, HEI, sbc. I would be willing to help you tune it up, or give you any advice I may have. PM me and I can give you my info. I would love to help someone out. I am good for anything from pump shot cams/sizing to balancing your primaries and secondaries, and general timing.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

The reason i wanted to use an engine dyno was because i dont want to blow my t5 or rear out before i even get to drive. I will be going to get it chasis dyno'd, maybe this fall, ill just have to build up my tran and rear first. I guess its the same prices either way, just setting up the engine dyno takes longer. I will definetly give you a shout for some help. Whats your setup?

Screamin82 Z28

If it were me I would save the money and do this. Buy that 75 dollar transmission and put it in the basement. Run the one you have now until it breaks, then drop the cash to build it up. Manual transmissions can take a pretty good beating above there rating. You may get a month out of it or you may get 3 years.

What do you have for a rear? 10-bolt? If you are on street tires I would likely do the same as above. Off the line is where they break, and with street tires lack of traction is going to help save your axle. When you break it, then build it up. I pulled pieces of clutch pack out of my 10 bolt over 5k miles ago. Posi still works and I am still going forward. I know its just pushing off the expense, but perhaps given an extra year or two to save you can put a 12-bolt or a 9" in there. Just my $.02

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Well right now i have a 700r4 in... with a shot torque convertor. I figured that buying a $500 torque convertor is about the same price i can get a t5 and master rebuild kit for. I also wont have to worry about rigging up a lock up and all of that. Plus its probably a good time.to convert everything over for a 5 speed while i have the engine out and everything apart.

Rear is a stock 10 bolt with 2.73s. I have 3.73s to swap in and a used eaton posi. If it ends up lasting at least a year, i might do a full rebuild. But once it breaks i plan to go 12 bolt.

I think the t5 will last a while. My S&W subframe connectors relocate my torque are to the crossmember on the subframe connectors. This should lessen the stress on the trans.