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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
Between life in the military and having nothing but setbacks (hence the title) I've been working on this car for awhile now. I decided to make my own swap thread despite there being a million 350 carb swaps, who knows maybe someone will come across this and find it helpful and if not maybe I can keep someone entertained with pics since I myself love browsing through build threads.
So the whole thing started with me buying an 82 z28 (lg4, t5) I've always been a thirdgen fbody fan and have had a few although I can never seem to hold on to them. I bought this car with the intention of doing a quick 350 carb swap and just enjoying the car.
Bought the z28 for $700 but ended up getting screwed as it had title issues. Although it turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the car had a good amount of rust and the underbody was dented and beat up pretty bad.
Luckily I came across this '89 firebird. The car was originally an lo3, t5 and had minimal rust. I was expecting to have to do an auto to manual swap so this was a big relief.
So when I started this whole project it was a way to keep me busy since my wife was deployed and I intended to have everything finished before she got back. And that never happened but I was able to get rid of most of the junk i had filled the garage up with.
I took all of the accessories I could use from the lg4 then gave it away. I also sold the rest of the camaro.
Now I was left with a bird that had no engine. I did manage to find a set of the original firebird wheels in the background and only paid $40 for them - a guy bought a van and they were left inside so he just wanted to get rid of them.
I found these eagle alloys on craigslist and grabbed them for $100.
Here's a 350 I bought for $150 that was supposed to be ready to go but water made its way inside so I sold it.
My attempt at cleaning and painting the engine bay. I also replaced the engine mounts.
Soon after I bought a pair of 062 vortecs for $125 from a fellow thirdgen er who had upgraded. I had a local engine builder magnaflux them and install blue ls6 valvesprings ($60) and he convinced me to upgrade the rockers to comp cams roller tips.
I also got comp cams retainers to help with clearance issues.
Now around this point I had an engine on the stand and was removing the heads. On one I had the bolts out and was prying it off with both hands when it slipped and fell on my foot. This set me back about 3 months.
In hopes of getting this car on the road sooner I bought an 80s 350 that I had heard run. It sounded fine but me being paranoid decided to tare it down and clean it up to rebuild. It was standard bore So they bored it .030 over. The crank and rods were cleaned up so I just bought new flat tops to raise compression.
Edelbrock performer intake manifold for spreadbore carb.
Finally got the tranny mated to the engine and I tried dropping them in together but with the bumper in the way I ended up dropping the engine in first. All of this was with the help of my wife. After a couple hours I was able to muscle the tranny in.
We ended up moving so I had to have the car towed as it wasn't ready. :/
2nd set of shorties I tried. I couldn't for the life of me get the first set to fit so I took a chance on these stainless ebay headers for $150. I originally had ac delco plugs but one wouldn't clear so I got some autolite ar103s which are 2 heat ranges colder. With the help of forum members we've decided my compression ratio should be around 10.5 : 1.
After a battle of gathering AN fittings and trying two carbs I figured out that my rebuilt quad had the wrong vaccuum break diaphragm, I ended up swapping the vbd from a spare carb I had lying around. I ordered teflon lined hose from summit but held off on the fittings until I was sure how I wanted to route the fuel lines. I then went to pepboys speed shop section and got all Russells fittings which I later found out weren't for teflon hoses so I had to go back and get their braided hose which Is just rubber lined although I do plan on getting the correct fittings so I can use the teflon hoses.
I ordered a tool called the koul tool as well as some cutters from summit that are made specifically for cutting braided hose and both were definitely worth the money.
As of now I still have to remove most of the wire harness and wire up a few things. I'm also waiting on a new torque arm bushing and a harness from a forum member for a taurus 2 speed fan I got for $20 at the junkyard. Pretty much just a few small things until I'm ready to fire it up. For the distributor I have a skip white hei dizzy waiting to go in and I'll be using brad penn break in oil.
I still need to hook my radiator up. I know where the upper and lower radiator hoses go but what about the other spots on the radiator. It's a t5 so no tranny cooler lines. Also no emissions or ac. Do I just plug all the other ports??
I still need to hook my radiator up. I know where the upper and lower radiator hoses go but what about the other spots on the radiator. It's a t5 so no tranny cooler lines. Also no emissions or ac. Do I just plug all the other ports?? For my heater core hoses I've got one from the intake manifold and the other at the water pump to the heater core. And also I know the overflow is going into the pass side of the radiator.
You should only need 3 hoses going to the radiator, upper and lower hose and the overflow. Any of the others can be left as is if I remember right from my swap. Any of the other open holes on the intake, I just went to the hardware store and got plugs with the correct thread, some thread tape, and plugged them off (I wasn't running heat either though).
Do I just plug all the other ports?? For my heater core hoses I've got one from the intake manifold and the other at the water pump to the heater core.
The trans cooler ports (small, inverted flare) can be left open.
You have your heater core plumbed "old style", which flows from intake to heater to water pump. This is perfectly fine. But...
The stock style radiator should have a 3/4" (or 5/8?) nipple return fitting. The TB/heater core/engine oil heat exchanger normally returns to the rad through this fitting... I figure the factory designed it this way because there was too much stuff on the front of the engine to route another heater hose back to the pump. You have to do something with this fitting, either; a) get a rubber cap and hose clamp it on to plug the radiator fitting, or b) switch the heater return hose from the water pump to rad, and put a pipe plug in the water pump. My $.02 is (b).
You should only need 3 hoses going to the radiator, upper and lower hose and the overflow. Any of the others can be left as is if I remember right from my swap. Any of the other open holes on the intake, I just went to the hardware store and got plugs with the correct thread, some thread tape, and plugged them off (I wasn't running heat either though).
I've got the 3. So Nothing will Leak Out If the right Side ports?
The trans cooler ports (small, inverted flare) can be left open.
You have your heater core plumbed "old style", which flows from intake to heater to water pump. This is perfectly fine. But...
The stock style radiator should have a 3/4" (or 5/8?) nipple return fitting. The TB/heater core/engine oil heat exchanger normally returns to the rad through this fitting... I figure the factory designed it this way because there was too much stuff on the front of the engine to route another heater hose back to the pump. You have to do something with this fitting, either; a) get a rubber cap and hose clamp it on to plug the radiator fitting, or b) switch the heater return hose from the water pump to rad, and put a pipe plug in the water pump. My $.02 is (b).
Yea I was a bit unsure about that. I think I'll just plug the water pump and connect it to the radiator. Appreciate all the input to everyone that's chimed in btw.
I was running an aftermarket radiator, so mine didn't have the port for the heater hose. I forgot about that one, sorry. Post a pic of the radiator so we can be sure, but if you either use the heater hose port as MoJoe showed, or plug it, there shouldn't be any others that would leak anything.
Update. Today I decided to start messing with the harness. From what I've read the harness on the pass side isn't needed but there's a few wires that connect with the hvac harness as well as the harness on the drivers side. I took out what I could but I'm overwhelmed. I unplugged the C100 Harness and plugged the new C100 made from forum member pocket but still have a ways to go. I've taken a few pics and could use some help figuring everything out.
Radiator pics - you showed us everything BUT the extra fittings on the passenger side.
I would assume Pocket labeled the connectors on the harness he worked. Or he would be best to answer questions about his harness.
As for the pictures, are these all wires from the passenger side?... These would be mostly ECM wires. Post 15, pics 2 & 3 looks like an awful lot of wires for a carb. Was this car EFI (TPI or TBI) and you are dropping in the LG4/carb? Or is that the original ECM harness for the carb engine?
1 - nothing to see
2 - 4 wire... I thought fuel pump relay, but would be driver side, upper firewall... not passenger side.
3 - blue/green=AC. Is that 4 wire metripack connector for a carb? MAF is 5 wire, and I don't recall any 4 wire on a TPI harness.
4 - that's just a bunch of wires, that I can't even identify the colors
5 - 3 cavity weatherpack with purple and yellow wires... don't know. The can in the background is oil pressure, and takes a single brown(?) wire with a big rubber cap.
6 - I don't recognize that 6 circuit plug
7 - the red metripack is probably the charcoal can. Not sure on the black.
8 - 3 wires in a 4 cavity conector at the carb... don't know.
9 - some random wires near the brake booster... don't know.
Radiator pics - you showed us everything BUT the extra fittings on the passenger side.
I would assume Pocket labeled the connectors on the harness he worked. Or he would be best to answer questions about his harness.
As for the pictures, are these all wires from the passenger side?... These would be mostly ECM wires. Post 15, pics 2 & 3 looks like an awful lot of wires for a carb. Was this car EFI (TPI or TBI) and you are dropping in the LG4/carb? Or is that the original ECM harness for the carb engine?
1 - nothing to see
2 - 4 wire... I thought fuel pump relay, but would be driver side, upper firewall... not passenger side.
3 - blue/green=AC. Is that 4 wire metripack connector for a carb? MAF is 5 wire, and I don't recall any 4 wire on a TPI harness.
4 - that's just a bunch of wires, that I can't even identify the colors
5 - 3 cavity weatherpack with purple and yellow wires... don't know. The can in the background is oil pressure, and takes a single brown(?) wire with a big rubber cap.
6 - I don't recognize that 6 circuit plug
7 - the red metripack is probably the charcoal can. Not sure on the black.
8 - 3 wires in a 4 cavity conector at the carb... don't know.
9 - some random wires near the brake booster... don't know.
In post 24 you can see the passenger side of the radiator but I think I have that figured out.
Yes car was bought as a roller 305tbi/t5 car and now I have a 355 with a carb and t5. Pocket hasn't been on the forum in about a month. As far as I know it's the original harness. From removing the engine harness a few wires were connected to the wiper motor. I just want to make sure I don't take any wires out that I'll end up needing. Even though the harness from pocket is labelled which should def help make things a lot easier.
This swaps been done a million times and is supposed to be pretty straight forward but I'm still trying to figure out the wiring. I must have read every damn thread on carb swaps on this forum and for whatever reason people neglect to tell everything that needs to be done. I'm really frustrated with this car and I'm about to junk it thanks for all the help
This swaps been done a million times and is supposed to be pretty straight forward but I'm still trying to figure out the wiring. I must have read every damn thread on carb swaps on this forum and for whatever reason people neglect to tell everything that needs to be done. I'm really frustrated with this car and I'm about to junk it thanks for all the help
The reason is that there is no one answer.What you are doing on yours may be different from what I did. This is where owning a manual with wiring diagrams comes in to play. You have to know how to read the wiring for your application and understand how to make it work for your car.
The reason is that there is no one answer.What you are doing on yours may be different from what I did. This is where owning a manual with wiring diagrams comes in to play. You have to know how to read the wiring for your application and understand how to make it work for your car.
small block chevys have been built in every aspect by now.
Craftsman 3/4 socket aka finally found a way to mount my powersteering pump. Lol
This is the starter enable relay for vats. Apparently it's different colors depending on the year which threw me off until I did a search on the part number of the actual relay.
Close up of the same relay. The yellow and green outter wire are now connected to bypass vats. (Terminal E & A)
Craftsman 3/4 socket aka finally found a way to mount my powersteering pump. Lol[/I]
LMAO Hey it works right? Man that is a spaghetti o wires. It took me a while (half hr, hr?) to understand wiring diagrams myself. It's not overly complicated. But don't start with the wires you need, cause you don't know where they go. Start with something like the basic lights wiring to see how the diagram works. Color codes, symbols, correct page. Ignition wiring is little tougher, but same principle. After you see that the diagram and actual wiring are nothing to scale, you can now slurp up some spaghettis.
[IMG]https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thirdgen.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/80-nc
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I just double checked my grounds and looked over the wiring. I've got the purple wire going to the starter as well as the positive battery cable. The battery is grounded to the engine block with no paint where the bolt is. This time when I turned the key on my hazards came on and my passenger window(don't have the drivers window switch) moved up and down very slowly but everything stopped after a few seconds. Fuses are good.
Passenger window switch spliced together.
Not sure where this brown wire goes to ( runs under the carpet towards the rear)
[I]I found this disconnected. Clear plug with purple wire goes into the plastic button panel right under the speedo guage.
Update: just checked with my multimeter and I'm getting 12+ volts at the power wire on the starter solenoid. My purple wire on the other solenoid isn't getting any power though. I'm assuming this wire should be 12+ volts with the key in the on position?
large post on starter should get 12V directly from battery positive cable. this post is the source for most other 12V accessories, etc. should be two or three other cables attached here.
small post should get 12V only when the key is turned to 'start': single smaller gauge wire
large post on starter should get 12V directly from battery positive cable. this post is the source for most other 12V accessories, etc. should be two or three other cables attached here.
small post should get 12V only when the key is turned to 'start': single smaller gauge wire
I'm doing a carb swap If it makes a diff as far as wires. I'll have to check the purple wire back to the C100. Could this be the reason I'm not getting any power or would that be a different issue?
After a couple weeks of waiting for my Taurus fan relay kit by forum member/Taurus fan guru formulal1le the kit came in and the plug is different from whats on my actual Taurus fan. big surprise right? Also received a oem throttle bracket that mounts to the q-jets rear mounting bolts and the vacuum hose is in the way. This is about the 4th bracket Ive tried. Literally everything goes wrong when I mess with this car.
At this rate this car is closer to the junkyard then back on the road and Im running out of patience and money to waste on it.
:/
Still no power. If it matters the distributor isn't installed yet and Ive removed the ecm as well as the engine harness. On my starter I just have the positive cable and the purple wire on the S terminal. Also I removed all of the factory fusable links when the harness was removed. Also I don't have a knock sensor and my oil pressure sender is from my autometer guage kit installed in the port by the dizzy.
On my starter I just have the positive cable and the purple wire on the S terminal. Also I removed all of the factory fusable links when the harness was removed.
The two large red wires with the fusable links on the starter battery cable terminal are what provide power to the chassis. You need both of them.
The two large red wires with the fusable links on the starter battery cable terminal are what provide power to the chassis. You need both of them.
I still have all of the old harness. Should I just splice the the 2 red wires with fusible links into the positive side from the battery to starter? Do you think this is why I have nothing powered?
09-22-2015, 06:40 AM
