So I’m currently running the 5.0 with the carb and it’s absolutely miserable. I want somewhere around the mid 400s so that it’s fairly powerful but still usable as a street car as it’s my daily. Every post I see about this on this forum is really old and prices are way different now apparently and was wondering what the best budget option was for me to get a solid engine for a low price. Hoping to spend at the most 2500 dollars. My plan right now is to maybe grab a 350 out of a junkyard and go from there but I’m not sure what parts to get for it. But any other ideas are of course welcome.

 

For that goal, with that budget, you'd probably do better to pick up a used LS and do a swap.

 

Unfortunately, 2500 won't get you far. However, it can help you get there by addressing the other items the car will need to support that power level. Namely, brakes, suspension upgrades, fix worn out crap, and exhaust. You'll need all these things before you add power and they will work with your 305 in the meantime.

 

$2500 isn't going to go far if you're starting from ground zero.
That's means getting a good shortblock on the cheap is key.
That said, an NA combination making 450 HP is going to be stretch regardless.
400 HP is very doable though.
Vortec heads out of the box.
A suitable cam. If the shortblock is a factory roller then you're dollars ahead there.
The Vortec heads mean a replacement intake.
Do you have headers on the 305? Carb?
I ran this combination of parts in one of my first Camaros.
Plenty of fun to drive.
It really woke up with an aftermarket converter.

Heads: $800/pair assembled
Hydraulic roller cam: $400 (counting on a usable factory roller block with lifters)
Intake manifold: $200
That's $1400 so far.
Miscellaneous: Timing chain set, gaskets, $500.

 

If you can find a Vortec 350 that is actually in good enough shape to run...
You will have to purchase:
-Hydraulic-Roller Camshaft.
-Hydraulic-Roller lifters.
-Bee-Hive Valve Springs.
-Valve Seals.
-Edelbrock "Vortec" Performer/ Air-Gap Intake Manifold.
-Edelbrock Carburetor.
-HEI Distributor.
-Fuel Pressure Regulator.
-Gaskets.

Depending on the cost of the "Junk-Yard' Vortec 350...
You might make that budget.

Good Luck!

 

To keep it budget I was thinking the engine core would provide salvageable lifters. Any hydraulic roller lifters I've been looking are north of $500. The cam eats up a healthy chunk of funds too. At least for a guaranteed made in the USA core anyway.
I'd use the Vortec out of the box, again to keep the budget in mind but that limits the 450 HP potential. The legendary Sledgehammer 350 used aftermarket Vortecs I believe. EQ Lightning IIRC. That engine dynoed (in dyno trim of course) at 447 HP. Small cam too with 224@.050" single pattern, 108 LSA.
The OP may find this older magazine article insightful. It does just what is asked. But the budget was closer to $3500.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/0611em-vortec-small-block/

 

........back in 2006.

 

This is true.
Present day costs in CDN dollars for shortblock machining (line hone, check deck, check rod ends, overbore, misc parts and assembly) is north of $2600. That includes a $700 set of pistons.
Cam and valve train will add $1500 more.
Then consider the induction and ignition.

 

Yep. And then another $2K for a set of 450hp-capable small-block heads, it's just not within the economic reach of many people these days. And then, as was touched on in an above post, there's the cost of all other upgrades required to do everything right to make the car safe and reliable, and there's $10K or more invested.

It's unfortunate, really, that this is not a sport for those who are budget-challenged and is just one more reason (on a long list of reasons) why hot rodding is rapidly disappearing.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you ironwill. In fact I'm kind of in that same spot at this very moment. But here's my take on that and it has to do specifically with a 450 HP target. Incidentally, that is my current HP goal.
When I got back into the sport after about a twenty year break, I had an 86 IROC (my 2nd third gen) and after the 305 gave up I moved on to a 350.
Back in 2000 or so, I found a NOS truck engine from 1979 (long and interesting story that) and fitted it with out of the box Vortecs, a flat tappet cam, Air Gap and a Holley VS carb.
Then I went racing.
Sure, I wasn't making 450 HP, but even the modest 350 or so HP was enough to enjoy on the street and at the track.
Then the development really began.
The point is, especially if there's a budget involved (as there was with me), start off slow. That $2500 will still go a long ways and the need to upgrade the chassis (provided it's well maintained) isn't there. Yet.

 

That's (starting off slow) is tough for youngsters to do these days when they see the ridiculously high hp ratings of newer vehicles available today. A new mid-level Camaro V8 is already 455 hp, so it's easy for beginners to think it's no problem to get there with their 30+ year-old 3rd gen. But as more-experienced 3rd gen owners know, such ideas are just not realistic, especially if everything has to be farmed out to a "shop." Even my own suggestion of forgetting the 350 build and swapping a junkyard LS isn't really realistic for a young kid who doesn't have the experience to be able to do all the work himself. And I'd hate to think what said "shop" would charge for such a swap; with hourly rates what they are; just the cost of labor alone would be astronomical.

 

All true for sure.
It's easy enough to buy a 600 HP crate LS though.
But after that $7500 outlay, comes another $1000 or so for a fuel and ignition controller.
Then the third gen needs almost 2 grand worth of swap parts.
Fast costs money.
Hell, even slow costs money. Seen the price of fuel lately?

 

Yes. And all of this, along with the inevitable mass acceptance of EVs---and subsequent gradual disappearance of ICEs---is stabbing a dagger into the heart of our hobby.

 

450 HP ain't happenin for $2500. That's completely fantasy land. Even more so, the ability to use it.

I would NOT bother with a traditional small block Chevy for that kind of power, in 2022. In 2002, ... different matter. But today, not so much. Best starting point would be a LS3 pullout with transmission. Then all you need is exhaust, motor mounts, and a few minor chassis mods for the trans mount.

Either save up some more or lower your goals.

A traditional SBC can crack 400 if well done, but it's still gonna take more than $2500. And then of course another couple of large to make it hook up, not tear up the car, stop the car, and so on.

 

I had considered that route myself after the Gen 1 crapped the bed.
I found up here, finding an LS3 on the cheap wasn't a likely happening let alone finding one with a transmission and the associated computers. But it was part of the plan at one point.
I also found that done the way I would want it would take headers ($), the cross member ($), the engine mounts of course and quite probably an entire accessory drive. Add to that a way to adapt it to my current but inadequate exhaust system.
But to get to 450 HP without stressing the bits, LS seems to be the way. As it is, I may make my HP target but it'll still be a Gen 1 SBC with all of its middle of the last century glory.
Yep. Save more or look for less.
As stated, 400 HP is reachable without breaking things including the bank.

 

First,I'm not going to comment on what power levels the 305 is currently at, and the effectiveness of every mod has to be judged in context, but two of my favorite mods, have to be gears and a torque converter. It'll make a HUGE difference. Relatively speaking of course.

Secondly, HP needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You can be wowed by 285 HP, and put to sleep by 385 hp, all depending on the type of car, gearing, transmission, weight, suspension, tuning, grannies, etc. etc.

 

These are the approximate prices for the Parts I mentioned, with a running Vortec 350...
That made 443 HP on my Engine Dyno in the Early-2000s:

-Hydraulic-Roller Camshaft = $400 Comp Cams
-Hydraulic-Roller lifters (OE Style replacements) = $180 Comp Cams
-Bee-Hive Valve Springs = $240 Comp Cams
-Retainers and Locks = $100 Comp Cams
-Valve Seals = $40 GM
-Edelbrock "Vortec" Performer Intake Manifold = $300 Edelbrock
-Edelbrock Carburetor = $440
-HEI Distributor = $100 GM
-Fuel Pressure Regulator = $40
-Gaskets + Misc. = $220

$2060.00 + Taxes and Shipping.

If you can find and good running Vortec 350...
It's not too bad.

 

^^^ This ^^^

Notice however that he did not give the cost of the short block, any work it may have required (with care, this could be minimal or even zero), heads (if separate from the short block), any/all machine work required to the heads to support the desired flow (HP = flow, in its most basic form), good-quality valves, rocker arms and misc other engine internals, any/all "mightaswells" (water pump, hoses, spark plug wires, brackets you don't already have, and so forth); EXHAUST, including headers, Y-pipe, cat, cat-back, brackets, etc.; ... you get the point. While the BOM he gives is no doubt accurate (or at least, was at some time in the however distant past), it doesn't include EVERYTHING you will need.

He also didn't delve into how much fuel it will use if driven on the street, or how long the various parts will last, or the amount of finesse required in assembly, or the tuning. At $150 an afternoon of dyno time, you can eat into a $2500 budget REAL QUICK after it's all already gone, and still have little more than a balky pile of parts that won't do what you want them to. I can assure you, when something EFFFFS UP in a build, it ALWAYS costs more to clean up the mess and re-do it, than it cost the 1st time. A realistic budget takes that sort of possibility into account. $2500 for 450 HP fails pretty hard in that regard: there's no room whatsoever for trial, let alone error.

Nor did he mention that someone like himself (former GM engineer) who has access to knowledge, parts, and whatever else, that you DO NOT; or even someone such as me, who has built more motors in my life than I can begin to recall; might be able to do that. Some random d00d posting on the Interwebz about "I want 450 HP" probably doesn't have the tools, time, space, materials, connections, and all of that, to ACTUALLY put such a thing into effect. After all, he wouldn't be posting on the Interwebz that way if he already had all that.

Remember, this thread is about "I have a 305 and want 450 HP"; not, "I have a 98 truck motor with only 75k miles on it and want 450 HP and this is the 50th motor I've built at or near that power level". The estimate of the length of the journey ($$$$) must include starting from where you are now (305), not, where someone else was at some previous time (truck pullout).

Nor does it include what it will take to USE that power effectively: torque converter, transmission parts, rear axle, and so on; or what it will take to connect it to the pavement (traction) including a better torque arm, LCAs, LCARBs, and so forth.

As ironwill pointed out, the notion of just going to the store and buying A WHOLE CAR with 500 or 600 HP has completely corrupted the idea of what can be realistically attained with an old platform. With these older cruder almost 70-yr-old design motors that came in these cars, it's pretty tough to compete with the products of all the learnings that have gone on in the meantime.

Go get a LS3 pullout and save yourself LOTS of grief.

 

Therein lies the rub. Finding one. I'm sure they exist but then again "good running" might be the difficult part. I'll qualify that by saying I haven't been to the scrapyard looking for such an item in a very, very long time.
As it is, that's the old hotrodder's recipe. Back in the day, even before my day, you'd go racing, blow up your engine, tootle down to the local scrap yard, yard out what looks to be a reasonable 350 (or whatever ) candidate, drag it back to the track, stitch your go fast parts to it and continue racing. Does anyone do that anymore? The 70's sure were a lot different. When I was first racing, I found my parts at the local JY. 400 shortblock sourced from this yard. A set of heads from another. Maybe a new cam...

 

Still on topic, what would you find a takeout LS3 selling for and where would you find it?

 

No idea what LS3s sell for. It'd be well over any $2500 I'm sure though; I'd expect probably 3 times that. I see A BUNCH of late-model Camaros wrapped around telephone poles and in ditches and whatnot ALL THE TIME though, so they can't be ALL THAT rare, at least.

You'd find one at a junkyard. Maybe car-part.com.

The 400 used to be my go-to core, back in the day. I haven't seen or even heard of one of those in the junkyard for MANY A MOON now though. Last time I needed one was in the mid-90s, and a high school friend who ran a junkyard that he inherited from his dad, was where I went. He had ONE that he was holding on to for a "special" situation. Most of us aren't so lucky, and I'm not anymore, for that matter. I expect he's retired now, as I ought to be but am not.

But, I also see grandpa trucks from the late 90s in ditches, smashed into guard rails, etc. all the time; and that's what I'd be looking for if I wanted a Vortec 350. One of my BILs just drove one into a ditch just acoupla years ago, the motor ran STRONG given that it still had the CPFI on it.

 

LS3 NIB (from GM) for $7500 CDN. We bought one (that's a Royal "we" by the way) for the 69 C10. Then of course in went the Hot Cam.
I was tempted to do that for the 3rd gen but common sense and my wallet got in the way.
Now I'm $3500 into a Gen 1 357 shortblock (I probably mentioned that). But I have a decent set of heads and all the parts to shoe it into the chassis. Just need another valvetrain. About another $1500 USD for what I'm after. That should yield a true engine on the dyno 450 HP.
Total cost involved should be around six grand. Not including whatever else might go sideways in the process.
Looks to be a long ways from $2500 doesn't it?
Still, there are alternatives. Find that usable Vortec 350 and you're off to the races.
I'd like to see the OP give it a go.

 

You guys would find better Used-Engine deals for the L92 Engine (basically the Truck version of the LS3)...
All the "LSx" named (RPO) Engines are over priced compared to the Non-LSx named Truck variants.


Even a LS3 Core that would be returned to GM under a Warranty Claim is triple the price of a 6.2L Truck Engine Core.

 

I have to agree with Sofa on this one. I believe most people, (mainly younger people) who have their hands on these cars now tend to forget how old they really are. To put it in perspective, these cars were designed in the late 70s to about 1981 or so. Microsoft was founded in 1975, Steve Wozniak built the first Apple computer in 1976, and the Commodore PET was released in 1979. Google was founded in 1998, or about two decades after design work started on these cars. The first iPhone would be released a quarter of a century after the first Thirdgen model year (1982 and 2007).

Why were these facts brought up? Because it's important to drive home that these cars were designed almost half a century ago. That puts them closer in time to the end of World War II than it does to modern day. Let that sink in for a moment. These cars are closer in time to a 1940's era Packard than they are to a car designed today.

This perspective will hopefully tamper expectations for these cars. These cars were designed during the second gas crisis of 1979, and the designs reflect that. These cars were never designed to have more than 200-225 NET SAE horsepower. (Let's not even start with Net VS Gross horsepower) The brakes, suspension, rear end, and transmissions were designed around a small set of permeators of fuel efficiency, comfortability, and the elusion of Power (Crossfire and TPI design). Contrast these permeators of modern day muscle cars where fuel efficiency, NHV, drivability, emissions, and high Net horsepower drive the designs. We are truly living in a world where we can "have our cake and eat it too" with the 5th and 6th generation F-bodies.