Hi guys,

A question for you? Do any of you have roll cages or a roll bar in your thirdgen? Anyone know of a good supplier of these in the Uk or of any custom manufacturers of these in the UK?

Specifically, I'm considering getting on but it would have to allow easy access to both the front and rear seats. If I'd only wanted two seats I'd have bought a different car!

Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated.

 

To start us of (I like to try and put plenty of good info onto this UK/Euro forum!):-

This months American Car World magazine, formerly known as Street Machine ACW, December 2004. Page 60-63 contains a write up regarding Hauser Racing and them making up a custom fit cage for a Fox body Mustang. No mention of prices though, which as we all know is never a good sign!

Hauser Racing can be contacted on 07933 312735. Their web-address is www.hauserracing.com. I may call them later to enwuire about price and regarding mail order to spec's.

 

Next up, we have Safety Devices Ltd.

They have been in business for a long time and do loads of different products. They do cages to any specification up to and beyond FIA motorsports regulations. Their 'off-the-shelf' mail order cages for various cars are a few hundred pounds. However, I spoke to them about doing a cage for a thirdgen and they quoted around £1800 for a full design, supply and install! I never fell off my seat laughing at the guy.

They can make up whatever you request according to your own measurements for much less money though.

They can be contacted on 01353 724200 and their website is http://www.safetydevices.co.uk/oldsite/

 

Roll Cage...

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php
s=&threadid=147580

The above link shows a pic of a roll cage that our very own Erictheviking made up. Fancy making cages for us Neil - we'll pay well?

 

Gordon, edging towards the all out race look?

In the Demon Tweeks catalogue there is a company in it which lists cages for our cars. Worth looking into.

You realistiaclly loose the use of the back seats though mate- how are you going to justify that to the old trout (what I call my missus)

Felix

 

Felix:- I've got the Demon Tweeks Race/Road and Bike catalogues. I didn't see an option for our cars though, I'll need to double check. Demon Tweeks are an agent for Safety Devices and other roll cage manufacturers also.

I can send you a picture of what I need if you like. Basically, the door bars would need to be at a lower angle and I'd need to do without the horizontal bar that most cages have. I don't need to meet NHRA/FIA regulations.

I've seen some cages in other cars where they have a transverse bar connecting both sides of the cage lower down, sometimes running along in the back of the footwells.

No, I don't want a race car look at all. I'm just investigating a cage/bar as a possibility for further chassis reinforcement and crash safety. I like going out with more than one passenger too much to justify losing the use of the rear seats. Perhaps, if I did another project thirdgen that was more race orientated then my views would be different.

Keep any more suggestions and information coming guys. Lets keep this forum active and useful to thirdgenners in the UK otherwise we could lose it!

 

There's no danger of that happening provided the forum doesn't turn into a general chat board.

 

Hi Guys,
This is the best post for a while.Dr G is right,this board has totally lost it's way recently.Apart from being v.busy,the reason I haven't posted a lot recently is because it's turned into some gay internet chat room.To me,this board should be the same as our US counterparts,with a huge amount of technical/hardcore content,only with more specific references to Europe.Anyway back to the cage.The price you were given Gordon seems a tad high but ring Andy Robinson and you'll realise it's not too wide of the mark.They are also going to design it from scratch which is time consuming.What most people don't realise is that the cage is the easy bit.Welding the whole thing in is the real test.I would love to help anyone out,but I am starting my own business and just haven't got the time to even work on my own car.If anyone wants the info to make a cage,I'm more than wiling to help them with all the ins and outs I can.I made mine with less than £40 of steel.I still have the homemade tubing notcher if anyone needs it which is essential to shape the ends of the tubes.The other option is to purchase a cage from someone like Competition engineering in the US,they are only about £200 or so,and get a local welder to put it in. I'll put some pictures up of my cage as soon as I find the disc they are on.

 

Mr Eric the Viking,i agree with you about the forum,we need two european divisions,the"WET"3rd gen forum,and the"RADICAL"3rd gen forum.Now for the roll cage,mr Viking done an excellent job of Designing his own cage,and it fits like a glove.He is band on right with the price as well,you could be looking at 1800 quid or more.Ideally you want the complete interior removed,as the welding process will burn holes in everything.Like mr Viking said,the competition engineering one is a good option,would be an even better option if you can weld.

 

Well if the pair of you are feeling that some of the other users posts are a bit "wet", maybe you should try posting about it in a new thread and try and get more of them into the racing scene. Failing that, you could always start your own threads sharing your current projects. Just a thought.

Sorry to have veered your post off topic, Gordon.

 

Glad to hear it!

BTW I don't want people to start squabbling in this thread. I only wanted to create a discussion about UK relevant rollcage issues. I'm only trying to help and play my part in making this board useful and informative, for the mutual benefit of all it's members.

Let's face it, we all know different amounts about our different areas of special interests. I was just wanting to try and get some information about getting a cage/bar to my specifications.

 

Thanks for the compliment Neil. Who is Andy Robinson? Do you have his contact details? Any more pics of your set-up would be welcome.

The problem with the Competition Engineering ones and the like is that they often don't come close enough to the B-pillars and their cross bar precludes the use of the rear seats. As I said above, IF I decided to get/make/commission one it'll have to still allow easy access to both the front and rear seats. NHRA approved style of cage is not an issue.

Again any info or help is much appreciated.

 

I don't think there's any need to try to start problems here. Let's try to keep things on track.

FYI the interior is already removed and whilst I can't weld to the standard that a professional would achieve, I am learning. I have several professional welders as friends who will do any of the required work for me.

Again any relevant help/information and opinions are more than welcome.

 

Very interesting, not everyone is building an all out drag car though mate. Some people have questions about bog standard cars and want to know some of the basics about running one of these cars over here. I like to think that this board caters for all as indeed does thridgen.org as a whole. If you want something harder then just post a new thread?? As for "gay internet chat room" I hope you're not pointing your finger at me.

Toecutter- clearly you have a lot to contribute. Again radical posts are just as welcome, but don't come over all negative when I haven't seen any posts from you here.

Again sorry Gordon for hijacking- just read this and it made me angry.

Felix

 

Dr G,How far do you intend to go with your cage,in terms of the number of points,Ideally you need a 6"by6" 1/8" steel plate at each point,it may be a good time to prefab some subframe connectors,and tie the cage to them as well,this will make for a very stiff and stable chassis platform.

 

if you are going that extreme though, you are beginig to tread the full chasis route....

its very difficult to retain full access to the rear seats with a roll bar, although a simple hoop behind the front seats, at the B pillar, and a bar on each side that follows the roof and a pillar line can work well.

either way, adding a cage can affect your insurance...

 

Welding a couple of tubes through the floor from the door bars to the sfc's is very easy and invisible,a very cheap and effective mod to do.A full chassis is a totally different proposition,I certainly wouldn't want one on a street car,unless someone gave me Colin Lazenby's '56 Chevy 8-sec street legal car!
Gordon,I can't find a number for Andy Robinson but the website is http://www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk/

I've got a feeling though you'll be looking at some major dough for their services.
If you want any help with fabricating one,give me a ring Gordon.
Cheers Neil.

 

I've already got both Alston and Spohn sub-frame connectors installed, so that side of things is covered. Yes, 6X6 plate at each point sounds good.

In terms of points I was thinking of six points:- the main roll bar hugging as close as possible to the B-pillar, 2 rear ward bars, and 2 bars going from the main hoop towards the front subframe but not going at the angle and height of NHRA cages but rather going along much nearer the horizontal line.

Thanks for the info on Andy Robinson Neil. Your offer of help is much appreciated, I may be in touch in due course.

I'm not too worried about the insurance Phil, surely this would be seen in a reasonably positive light due to the extra safety for passengers?

 

Dr. G this sounds pretty much like the sort of cage/rollbar I was considering. Part of the reason for getting a rollbar would be to get mounting points for a 6 point harness. Personally I'm nowhere near deciding to go this way yet.

I'm sure there are plenty of custom cage fabricators around here. folks like www.mvturbos.com or www.falkland.co.uk should be able to do the work or point you in the direction of someone who can. They both run/prepare cars for smrc racing at knockhill.

If you do wish to use the rear seats with this style of cage you probably need serious padding on the bars that run towards the rear.

I would also think that the insurance company would perhaps even consdider the rollcage as a positive, not negative mod. They certainly didn't have any concerns about my brakes, stb, and sfcs.

Si.

 

Si, Thanks for the links to those guys - I'll check them out later. Bes ure to let me know what you decide and how you get on and I'll do the same.

Regarding the rear bars, I'd like them to be tucked as far up and as far out laterally as possible. I agree the padding would have to be very good. If it looks impossible then I'll settle for a hoop with bars running forwards, and a trasverse bar tucked at the back and bottom of the rear passengers footwells.

None of these ideas are impossible, I've seen similar designs on Euro/Jap cars, it's just a case of making it all come together.

Which insurance company are you with Si? I get my policy through Adrian Flux, but haven't asked them what would happen to the premium if I fit e.g. a roll cage or bigger front brakes.

 

unfortunatley, you can blame ric<x>ers for this, the chances of a car being written off with a roll cage installed increase, mainly because most cars with cages are hatches that ric<x>ers drive like total buttnuggets...

unfortunatley, the insurance co see it as 'cage = nutter = higher chance of payout'

its but isn't life?

 

Yeah, I'm with Adrian flux, and they didn't bat an eyelid at the spohn 13" brake kit, or sfc. Haven't tried asking about a rollcage. Worth asking them before you get it done. Hopefully they would actually consider what type of car it is before they brand it in the same catagory as the sooped up hatches. but I suspect that Phil's right.

I think I'm a long way off getting a cage, but I'm doing a lot of thinking in this area, because I want to go for a track day at knockhill in the next year. I had a little incident where the power assistance failed on my brakes the other day, which didn't cause any other damage, but had I been up at knockhill doing a track day then 110+mph at the end of a straight and brake failure would have been a tad painful. as it was I narrowly missed T-boning a police car....

One problem with the design you've mentioned is that it doesn't have much triangulation across the car. Most rollcages for 3rd gens have diagonal bars from the top of the roll bar outwards to the rear. Also the less horizontal the forward bar is the more effect you will see in strength and also side impact protection. One thought I did have on this was to make the drivers side have more protection than the passengers, so that rear seat passengers would really have to come/go via the passenger side, but would provide most protection around the driver. just a thought.

Are you planning to keep with the original seats/seatbelts?

Si.

 

By the way,as the padding does take an issue with building a cage the best type you can get is made by competition engineering,they do several colours,and as a bonus they actually do some with the hole down the centre of-set,which is ideal for where the tubes come close to the body-work.It is fairly crucial to try and get the front bars in if you can,even if they are at a lower angle,but dont use the set ones with a dog leg as they are next to usless due to flex,I will try and post some pictures of the welded points to show you what i mean about the plates.Both the centre,and the front and centre plates should be bent to tie up the chassis and the sill.Actually it is an advantage to have the front plates 10"by6"as this will bring the plate right up onto the sill and over a larger area of the floor.Many various gusset plates padding etc can be purchased from www.competitionengineering.com.Toecutter.

 

Knockhill are doing introductory track days purely for those who haven't been to one before. You go out with the instructor, have tuition, and go around in groups behind an instructor learning the lines etc. I've got pics from a recent track day at Knockhill where several Lamboghini's were on the track, and a Ferrari F40!! I'd be interested in going along the same day as you if you like. I imagine Rob would bring his IROC along if he wasn't working.

I agree on the lack of triangulation, I agree that it is less ideal than a full racing 10 or 12 point set-up. But, life is all about compromises. If I decide to do this, it has to fit my criteria set-ouy above. Full race stripped out can be on another project thirdgen, with a T56 and LS1

I'm planning to keep the original seat belts for the time being and perhaps get the new racing harnesses from Safety Devices (web-link in one of my opening posts above) that allow you a degree of movement but then lock if there is any deceleration. Allowing more comfort on long drives.

 

Toecutter. Many thanks for the info! Much appreciated.

I like that idea of the padding with the offset lumen (hole). Can you explain what you mean by the dogleg front bars. Is that where it goes down at say 30 degrees and then changes 2/3's of the way down to like 20 degrees?

Any pics of the welded points would be appreciated.

 

Do any of you feel that the most cost effective solution would be to buy a kit like this then modify it to suit?

http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1323
8 Point Roll Bar - Mild Steel - 82-92 F-Body

Order it with bars that clear the stock door panels and a swing out kit for both sides?

Then cut the tranverse bar off? Or relocate as low down as possible? Or replace it with one along the very bottom of the rear footwells?

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome!

 

I think modifying that kit is an excellent idea,it is quite cheap,though the shipping will be interesting though!With the main transverse bar,it is clearly in the way for the back seats.What about something along the lines of making it removable via a quick release or bolt in mechanism?
The side bars are still the sticking point.I have seen the swing out ones or the type that follow the shape of the seat.


BTW It is apparent that my comment about the "Gay internet chat room" was not universally appreciated.For this I hold my hand up and admit I was wrong. I was not aiming it at anyone and I believe it was taken out of context.

 

I agree with Neil here. If you aren't building your own, get a kit shipped in from the U.S. and make any relevant modifications. With the UK companies looking for £1800, it's a no brainer really.


Neil,

Your comment wasn't alone in causing a storm, but it's good of you to be man enough to come back and hold your hand up to that. Everyone just has to appreciate that over here everyone has their own uses for their machines, which will reflect a lot on the things that each individual will post about. It's just a case of different strokes for different folks.

With winter approaching and a few cars being put away until the spring, together with the events drying up, the board may tend to become a little on the quiet side at times. That's just the nature of the beast. The drag racing or the tech boards are probably the best bet for more performance related issues, as opposed to a regional board, inparticular one like this that doesn't have a huge number of regulars, with an even fewer number of then being into the racing side of things.

 

Dr G I have tried very hard to post some photos of the cage as i promised,but so far have been totally unsuccesful.I even shot another load on the lowest pixel count on the camera,480by 640,and even with a single photo it still kept coming up'file too large'?I will try again by editing the photo down,or is there a trick to this?I havent really had a problem before.Another thing is if you are going to buy in a kit why not try Hauser Racing for a quote,I have had some very reasonable prices of them for larger items.

 

If you want you can email them to me at gordonhaveron@yahoo.com Thanks for taking them by the way, much appreciated.

 

DrG I have sent some pictures to you of the rollcage as unfortunately I cannot post them on this site.I hope they will be of help to you,they may well end up in your bulk folder in case you miss them,Toecutter.

 

Toecutter! I'll go and check the email just now.

Many thanks for taking the time to do that!

Gordon

 

For anything from the manufacture of roll cages to full tube race chassis you guys could also consider:-

Web:- www.john-sleath.com/
Tel:- 01709862075

He can also supply and fit ATI Prochargers, FAST fuel injection systems, nitrous oxide set-ups etc.

 

Indeed, John Sleath is a very good place to get your car done.

I have watched his racing career for many years, and if this bloke cant build it, no-one can. My favourite car of his was his old Saab 900, which ran in the custom car street eliminator class. This basically means the car has to be street legal ie. treaded tyres, MOT, run on unleaded etc etc. To be honest, the car looked like a heap, an X reg brown saab! But with Chevy big block 502ci, blown/nitrous power, it ran well into the 8's at 180mph +!!! Imagine meeting that at the lights! The car was genuinley in the top 3 fastest street cars in Europe, and possibly the world.

So the moral of this nostalgic rant is, the man can build cars