I got my Edlebrock TES headers installed today. I left the car at the shop last night and it was ready today at 6pm.That's the good news. The bad news is that it's snowing here in NY and I couln't take the care for a ride. Bummer, dude.I was psyched all day.
Anyway I did a lot of reading and research as far as the best price on headers. The best ones(em.legal) for a 3rdGen are TES and SLP.Some others are cheaper but your mechanic may charge you more if they're a PITA to install!
I paid $300 in Brooklyn. I read a post here as far as how much it should cost, and I told the guy I'll pay him $300 tops.He agreed. He wanted $600 at first cause it took him 2 days to install Hookers super-comp into an Imp.SS.But that's a different story.
This was not a performance shop but the young guy who did my car is a hot rodder and whenever he gets a chance to do a hi-per. mod, he treats your car just like it was his own. He's slow and deliberate and takes his time(the price is agreed upon first so it doesnt matter as far as $/hours).
So the reason for my post is for anyone who's looking to upgrade their car w/headers on a budget.If you don't have speed shops in your area or if your local mechanics don't want to get involved w/header istalation(like mine, at first)
Your best bet for a 3rd gen are TES.
They fit the easiest, cost less.And if you wanna talk about rust, uncoated headers will last you 5 years at least, here in NY. If they start to rust, so what. It's not gonna hurt performance at all.I coated mine myself(more on that later)
I'm talking to people who just wanna get their car as fast as it can get w/out a full blown 383 and do it cheaply. I mean there are folks on this board, like me, who don't plan to own their cars forever.Sure I love my 3rdGen but I like a lot of other cars too and who know what the future holds. One thing I learned is that never get too attached to a race car. You might be in for a heart break.
I also have a fondness the 280zx as well as the twin turbo ZX among many other domestis and imports. I respect them just as much as I do the F-bodys of all their incarnations(don't like mustangs too much though)Veriety is the spice of life, you know!
Anyhow I'm geting off topic.
Basically if you have a 3rdGen and if you're not planing on replacing every part of the engine one piece at a time get the TES.It's good enough.SLP are much harder to install(lifting a side of engine) and cost too much.Remember weather you have a 350 or a 305, any headers are better than your stock manfolds.Period.
As far as coating the TES:A fellow 3rdGener sugested this stuff called POR15(POR20 for extreme heat.1400deg.)
The thing about this stuff, according to the instructions, is that you don't have to bake it. The heat from your headers cures the stuff. I don't know but I will keep you posted how it works out for me.
Thanks for reading this far. Hope this creates no flames.
Mike

This is as far as FIT


------------------

1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat/5 Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft(230hp)
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).

 

i didn't have to lift the engine to install my SLP's.

 

I am trying to decide on which hedders to buy. Maybe somebody can help me out here. I live in NY...on da Island. I know that the hedders will probably end up getting rusty, if i dont buy the right ones. This is my first car, Im 16. I dont have too much money to work with here. It is an '83 TA w/a V8 350. I was looking at the SLP's and the Eldebrock TES hedders. The SLP's are expensive, but are they worth the extra money? My engine only has slight mod's. I am planning some more soon. As of now it has a shift kit, and a Lunati cam. I was told the engine is a 350 4 bolt main. How are the Heddman hedders and the Hooker hedders? Which ones are the best? Which ones are the best for their money? Please let me know. I want to get new hedders, along with a new flowmaster cat back system. Thanks.

 

Well if u get the SLP's they will rust on the outside but not all the way thru. The Edelbrock's will rust all the way thru though but all you have to do from keeping this from happening is getting them ceramic coated. Keeps the heat inside the headers more and that keeps ur engine cooler and they look REAL good coated and they will never rust with that stuff on them. (remember to coat the y-pipe too) I have pictures of them at my site if you want to see what TES's look coated.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

I think the question is moreover, will a more expensive product yield a bigger performance gain?
Edelbrock TES and SLP's will yield around the same gain, simply because there is only so much you can gain from adding headers. Many people assume that buying the most expensive product equals getting the best thing out there. This is sometimes more true with cars, especially chemicals, but not always hardware. The only difference in price between the TES and SLP's is the material used for headers. SLP uses stainless steel, Borla does too (read expensive).
Just because it costs more does not mean that more power will be realized, you could buy a pair of Hooker headers, or Flowtechs for $100 and get just as much power as you would installing the TES, or SLP's. The only difference in price is the emissions legality, material and brand name. We're talking Coca Cola vs. Pepsi here.

Ultimately, the consumer must decide which one is more suited to their application, and whether they can or want to afford a more expensive product.

------------------
--Steve S--
1984 Trans Am 305 LG4, 5 speed
Daily Driver, Flowmaster 80 Series
NOW FEATURING: Holley 600 cfm & vacuum advance

[This message has been edited by 84TransAm (edited February 25, 2001).]

 

Thanks for all the advice and opinions. So as of now, I am deciding between the Eldebrock TES and Hooker hedders. Please give me some feedback. Thanks, and I appreciate all your help.

 

CRAZEINC
HEYA!!!!!!
oh wont you be my neighbor?

email me sometime,
Firebretha@aol.com

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
no true mods,
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
People dont have a soul, its just something parents made up to frighten little children, like the boogie man, or micheal jackson..."

GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap

 

dotn TES headers have mismatched primarys? something like 1 5/8 and 1 1/2. COrrect me if im wrong.

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html
-------------------------
1985 trans am
factory bright yellow
4 wheel disks
16 inch wheels
305 TPI
power antenna and mirrors
t tops

 

They mismatched them so they would be all the same length. I beilve someone brought that up awhile back and it had to do with the length of the headers and getting all the tubes the same length. Doesn't hurt performance

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

In addition, Edelbrock TES and SLP's have all Emissions fittings, if you need them.

 

wow two people from Naperville! i didnt know u guys had 3rd gens out there. Thought you richies only had 4th gens! by the way i live in downers grove

------------------
89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98, MSD 6AL MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone,flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms

 

good article we NEED on headers! great post, thanks! Its important to know which headers fit, and which ones need to be beaten into a puzzle to fit.

turbo Z cars huh? Definatly a good car (i don't consider it rice, its a performer, and looks cool).

 

LoL, i know, but even tho i have a pretty stock 305 i live givin them a good kick, (hehe fourth gen's)

hmm.... wish we had a board where people from each state could post where they live, your bout the 6th of locals, gonna have to get something together!

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
no true mods,
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
People dont have a soul, its just something parents made up to frighten little children, like the boogie man, or micheal jackson..."

GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap

 

Thanks Christos.
Like I said. To summerize the whole thing:
TES cost me $350(shipped)+300 to install.
SLP w/install kit would have cost me $470 shipped, from the Group Purchase.Around $600 w/out GP or a SLP sale price. Instalation=?

Even if you're gonna install either of these yourself, you're saving $120, right there, and I'm using our GP's price for comparisson.
And according to all the posts I read, SLP ARE MORE DIFFICULT TO INSTALL. No body seems to argue w/me on that part.
As far as rust is concerned, by the time your TES rust through to a point where you need new ones, LT1 4th Gens will be cheap enough.

As far as coating the TES,I used this POR-20 stuff and it seems like it's good. It burned and flaked off, a bit, on one side. I attribute this to poor surface preparation on my part.I wire brushed it, only. The other side is holding. I sand-blasted them and I baked that side in a spare oven(I don't cook food in it), just to see if it makes a difference. I suggest baking them first at 450deg or so. www.por15.com
As far as performance gain, all I can say is: WOW,F**NG,WOW!!! I was affraid that there would be some low RPM torque loss. Not true. I gained bottom end and mid range TQ and HP. Of course you feel the real power up on top. I installed the MSD6AL box at the same time and I would say an *** -end 20hp were achieved. For real! I figure this is due to all of my mods combined.
Mike


------------------

1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat/5(230hp) Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,MSD6AL,Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).

 

Pontimaniac ...where are you located in NY? Are you located on the island? I am located in suffolk county, Long Island. Where did you get your hedders installed?

 

I'm in Brooklyn.I had my headers installed in a shop were they don't usually do HI-PER stuff. A guy that works there and myself convinced the owner to take the job. Mainly 'cause the guy that works there, likes to work on hot-rods and such.
Where, abouts in Suffok are you at? I'm in Bensonhurst.I would immagine they have some speed shops out where youre at. Around here, not too many.

 

ok well...i paid 360 shipped for my Hooker LTs and will pay 250 for the y pipe...this will still equal less than your price since i am installin myself...as u should have done....that 300 dollars could have been a cat back system!! My hooker 1 3/4 LTs will out perform TES by FAR, slp by FAR, and any other shorty crap. not a flame just....givin you perspective...my friend picked up Hooker LTs, y pipe, and 4" mufflex for 200 dollars!!!! sure they were used...but his look just as good as mine do.
just my 2 cents

------------------
Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 small block, Hooker 1 3/4 LTs, Random Tech Cat, Hooker aero chamber cat back on the way!!
TH700-R4 with Trans-Go shift kit (corvette servo here...but not installed yet)
MacEwen Motorsports White Gauge Overlays
14" K&N X-Stream Open Element
GTS Headlight and Taillight covers
5% Limo Tint all around
Classic White Chevy Bowtie sticker on rear window
http://www.geocities.com/esvalenz

Man if my camaro were a rice-rocket all those mods would give me what...easily 50-60 hp!!!

"Just because I've done it, doesn't mean I knew what I was doing!" - Me

 

Just curious, how are you gonna pass emissions with hooker long tube headers? If you dont have the o2 sensors and air tubes that the manifolds carry why even bother with a random tech cat?

------------------
1999 Camaro SS LS1 m6 12.6@112mphw/1.9 60ft
1987 Iroc-Z 5.7 TPI best et. 14.3@94mph w/2.0 60ft.
1984 Camaro

 

I live in Suffolk county. I live in North Babylon. There is a place for high performance parts called SK Speed around where I live. I am thinking about going there.

 

To Black Beauty
Your headers will cost you more, at any rate.I didn't install the headers myself for various reasons. Mechanical savy, not being one of them.
As far as catback, I got it.Read my sig.
Also remember, even if you installed them yourself, it doesnt mean it was free. I'm sure you consider your free time valuable.My free time is worth more than the shop's hourly rate. At least to me.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the satisfaction of doing my own mods.It's just after researching just what's involved in installing smog legal headers in a 3rd Gen, I decided it made more sence to have a shop do it. For me it was cheapest, this way.
Mike

------------------

1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat(230hp),5 Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,MSD6AL,Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).

 

From all the reading on headers, which ones come with a y-pipe, so that the installation can go right to the cat with no problems? I've been looking at either the TES, SLP, or DynoMax. what is everyones views.. Just so you know, my car will never see snow, and I'm no where near a coast. So I hope rust will never really be a problem.

 

The Hooker Super Comp 2055's come with the air tubes, O2 sensor fitting, and the Y-pipe. No big problems, just needed to get the mouth of the cat opened a little to fit over the end of the Y-pipe. I ground down the air-tube stubs sticking in the primary tubes, although they weren't nearly as bad as other headers. Other than that, they fit and work great.

------------------
Greg Westphal
'87 IROC 305TPI/A4

 

TES's come with everything. Y-pipe, bolts, gaskets, O2 sensor hole, AIR tubes. Complete for 313.00

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Thats just the painted headers right? is the nickel-chrome ones any better? or is it just looks. Thanks

 

I would just POR-15 it. A gallon is about $20 which is about all you should need ( i assume, maybe an extra quart or 2 for back up). It would be a much cheaper alternative than buying the Nickel-plating, possibly more effective. Of course, if you want the chrome look, go at it!

 

Where can the POR-15 or even the POR-20 be found? I've never heard of the stuff.. Thanks

 

You can find it at www.por15.com. If you read this thread, there was a link.
According to my experinent: I preped the pasenger side by wire brushing and the driver by sandblasting. I also baked the sandblasted side and left the other side "raw".Result:the pass. side flaked a little. Otherwise the stuff is good. Easy to apply and all you need to by is a quart.You'll have enough to coat the headers and the Y-pipe, several coats, and still have 3/4 of the can left.
Anyway the final verdict: for an emissions legal, 3rd Gen go w/TES if you wanna save a couple a hundred bucks.
If you're doing heavy and expensive modifications to a 350/383, than go w/the SLP, for the love of Jesus and sweet baby Jesus.They make a fine set and I considered buying them myself. It's just for my applications, as well as many other folks, it's not worth the money!rust or no rust.
PS. Ceramic(Jet Hot?) coated TES are still cheaper than SLP by themselfs.And a lot of people get SLP and coat them as well. ???

------------------

1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat(230hp),5 Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,MSD6AL,Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).

 

Oh, opps. I noticed the DynoMax headers are emission legal too. Does anyone use these ones? I'm starting to lean towards the Ceramic coated ones they make. from the looks of things, the Y-pipe is coated too. Thanks.



------------------
89 RS Camaro, 305 TBI
Mostly Stock
Duel Snorkel Air intake

- Future Mods -
DynoMax Street Headers
DynoMax Cat Back

 

Never heard of POR-15? Yea, they make pretty cool stuff. Really great for rusty areas or areas that are abused, like battery trays. Brush off the surface rust and slop it on and it bonds with the metal and stops the rust while drying rock hard. Great stuff - no gimmicks. I used it around my rear window channel to help stop some rust and seal up some minor holes. Just make sure you wear gloves and junk clothes when ya use it!

-Rich

 

Fast Electric.
Just rmember that TES are the easiest to install. Weather you gonna install the Dynomaxs yourself or pay someone to do it, ease of installation is very important.So choose your poison w/care.FYI

 

i have had my edelbrock tes hedders for 2 years now. i was 17 when i bought them and i installed them myself( i consider myself more mechanically inclined than the average 17 yr old) it wasn't too bad. just kinda of a tight fit in places but overall, very doable. i sandblasted them completely down and used high heat hedder paint on them and although i don't drive in the winter, they have yet to start rusting. i didn't notice more power under 30mph. but from there on up the hedders made a big difference and i only have a 305. i noticed the biggest gain in midrange power, after that the exhaust outflows my stock tpi. but i have the tes and would reccomend them to anybody!

[This message has been edited by superz (edited March 01, 2001).]

 

Thanks for the tips... It's a tough decission to make.. I'd be installing them my self.. There is very few things that I'd have someone install.. I'm gonna check around locally for that por-15 first.. thoug it looks really good.. my stock rusty water pump could really use it.. Thanks Guys..

 

hmm... ok, i think ive decided to go with TES headers and their catback, runnin it three inch for my 305 (wathca think?)

and how much does coating go for, or where to bake it with por15/20? and how much is the por in comparison, and thanx for all those replies you guys gave, Realllllly did help decision, T

Thnx

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
no true mods,
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
People dont have a soul, its just something parents made up to frighten little children, like the boogie man, or micheal jackson..."

GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap

 

Good man!
TES is your best bet, in my opinion.
Por20 works!!!Just prepare the headers real well(sand-blasting).Don't get brainwashed by the SLP fans.The SLPs might be better headers(for a certain application) but the price tag is waaay tooo much. It all depends on what you're building. A 383? than go w/SLPs. If you want economical headers that have the easiest fit in a 3rd Gen, go w/TES.Forget coatings. Not important.
Mike

------------------

1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat(230hp),5 Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,MSD6AL,AFPR(46)
Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).

 

hey mike
Why sandblast tho? theyd be new, cause id order the catback, the headers, the por20, slap it all togetha and get it all set,
(what do i do about a cat tho? emissions coming up, or is, : (

 

you gotta sandblast the pipes down cause teh black coating on them from the factory is only to keepthem from rusting in storage. to properly coat them you have to blast them clean. if you paint over the factory black coating, it will all flake off.

 

Whats it take for sandblasting, or how much does it cost cause i have jeep wheels i wanna repaint but theyre all rusty,

 

What is the differeance between Hooker Super Comps and just Comps. As far as I can tell it is only the metal they are made out of which makes the Comps 30% heaver then the Super.
-

 

I mentioned earlier that getting too attached to a race car can cause a heartbreak. I didn't mention that on the following saturday night(2 weeks ago), after installing the headers(and MSD6AL box), I smacked up my bird, a bit.
I was excited w/the extra power and took the car out to the city. On the way back, while going over Manhatan Bridge, I learned that "bridge freezes before road does" is actually F**IG TRUE.
Anyhow, I think that the extra power I got in the upper range, got my rear out from under me.I span out cause I wasnt used to the TQ yet, but Ice is Ice.
The reason I mention my accident is because I finished fixing the car(body wice). I had to get a new nose, hood and fender+left head light assembly.I got a fiberglass hood as well.Now only the paint remains(that's gonna cost!!!).
Anyway, adding TES to my 90 Bird, made the car a SICK RIDE!!!
Mike





------------------

1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat(230hp),5 Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,MSD6AL,AFPR(46)
Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).