Hahahaha, yeah. How to smog it, is always quite simple but people don't wanna hear the answer. $$$$$$$$$$!!!! Gotta spend it if you want to do it right!

 

A friend of mine did a test with his car ('93 Mustang 5.0 with x-pipe, no cats, and headers and 525 lift cam) and his dads Harley. The Harley registered higher on the decible meter than his mustang. I think it was like 20 decibles higher.

 

Slow down pal. That might apply where YOU live. Here in Mass, if I catch you with a reciever , dissasembled or not, and it wasn't manufactured before 1860 and doesn't fire "ammo that cannot be obtained through regular means", you BETTER have a license to carry, and that firearm better be registered to you.

The point of this post? Laws vary from state to state. I argue with criminal justice majors all the time, and when they graduate to full-blown bottom feeders, I argue with them in court. But you need to be careful that your interpreting law correctly, and that the law applies to the locality in question.

Regarding a cat. chapter 90 in mass simply says it cannot be removed, and can only be replaced if the OEM unit was defective (meaning you cannot legally replace a full functioning cat with an aftermarket unit).

Chapter 90 also says, that an exhaust system cannot be altered from stock design, or utilizing components not certified to be OEM direct replacement components. This is a tricky one. In my last in-service, I asked if that means I can stand outside Midas, and ticket every guy that leaves with a aftermarket muffler, since well, we both know GM doesn't endorse other brands. The answer was "as the law is written, yes, but thats not the obvious intention"..

Chapter 90 ALSO says, you are responsible for making sure your car is compliant and safe, regardless of "I bought it this way", or any of that crap. Thats just how it is. It's the officers descretion to tow the vehicle. Give me a hard time and your walking. If I made a mistake then, well, it's better to be on the safe side, then allow a potential unsafe vehicle to kill someone. Right?? public safety is #1.


Do I agree with a lot of these laws?? No not really.. Would I write you a ticket? Probably not no, unless of course you cut your exhaust off at the manifolds cuz it "sounds cool", gave me an attitude since you 'pay my salary', or are a criminal justice student

All kidding aside. Be smart. I have a badge in my wallet, doesn't mean my corvette can be hard from 6 blocks away. There is no reason to be obnoxious in life. Nobody thinks your cool cuz they can hear you coming accross town, and it surely won't get you any more dates than you're allready getting.

-- Joe

 

Got nailed for "unneccessary exhaust"... like a $400 ticket. Fought it and won!

 

What was your justification/arguement in your favor? Just curious, may help someone reading this in a hard spot.

 

I played the "they were picking on me" thing... as I had so many tickets in such little time.

 

man cali has the toughest laws. the cop will get down on his hands and knees and check every thing. i had dumps on my mustang,ticket poped my hood, o boy did he have fun every thing crome he gave me a ticket for so there u go

 

I have a big cammed motor and need to drive from Needham MA to Worcester MA, like 40min. I only have a title and am not sure how all the registration is going to work out, but I NEED my car at the body shop on Monday morning. Do you guys think it is likely that I get pulled over looking 4 different colors and sounding like something you would only hear at the track. My car isn't that much louder than a harley... I will be on the highway most of the time too, so I am hoping I don't get caught before I have a chance to change all my pipes over the winter.

There is a video on utube if you search for my TGO name. I have no idea how to link it over here.

The car getting impounded is my biggest fear.

 

Then call a tow truck..

-- Joe

 

A tow from here to there is about $650...

I will take my chances thanks.

 

No it's not.

So you are going to drive your uninsured unregistered car, which may or may not be safe to use on the road, and risk possibly killing an entire family!??!

I hope for the sake of public safety you are caught!

So you'll be heading from Intervale Rd in Needham to worcester? White camaro with a red roll cage right?


-- Joe

 

Holy crap! A 40 min tow should run you about $150. I had to be towed from Woburn, MA to Townsend, MA... a good 50-60 min drive, and it was around $150.

 

Or less. Infact, if he spends $90 on AAA plus he gets 4 or 5 free tows, up to 100 miles.

It's amazing how people will spend thousands to make the car go, but not $100-200 to be safe and legit.

-- Joe

 

That's assuming he's been a member for atleast a year AND the car must be registered.

 

What court did you go to? I've heard people trying that in Worcester and Ware and they basically laughed at the person. "Are you implying our officers are somehow abusing their rights and not doing their job accordingly?"

 

Most places charge $60ish to get on the truck and a few bucks per mile- I paid $85 to get my car about 4 miles becuase I wanted a flatbed (wouldn't want it towed on the highway). $650 is way too much though. It can't be more than 50 miles from needham to worcester, AAA basic is free towing for a few miles then $3 a mile after that (right there's your $150).

 

This was Ayer Disctrict Court.

 

Yeah, but I do not have AAA. I am not sure, but I dought that they will let me you sign up a day or two before you need a lonng tow. The 650 figure i got was off 4 different vehicle moving companies. I found one as low as 450 to go that far. There is now way it would only be 150 to get to worcester. It is too far. I would also abolutly NEED a flat bed. If it was 150 I would py it in a heartbeat.

I am not affraid of spending $ on transporting my car, but neer or over 500 is insane....

Now to address the guy who thinks I am going to be killing families... Where do I start with you... I am not gonna start calling your acusations rediculouse because I am sure you know they are allready. I will just start off by asking, if I had plates and all, how does that mean that my car is safe for other families? I still have my 7 days after registering to get it inspected. And even that is easily done with a little extra cash in these parts. My ex-gf mom got her 99 Volvo's sticker passed with an extra $20 due to her tint being too dark.

In the end I will gice you a quick update....

I found out that my insurance place has RMV abilities and on top of that my mom found my title in some hidden old file cabinet. Today i am going to get my car registered and insured. I will aslo be getting plates and will be using my 7 day "pass" period to drive the car down to get painted. Then I will work on getting a sticker.

So I think this means that all the families I wanted to kill will be safe.... right?

I consider myself a pretty resonable and rational person, when people say i am going to be out there killing people with my death machine of a camaro, what am I supposed to do, take you seriously.

Well if you wanna keep your eyes out for me yes, I WILL BE THE WHITE CAMARO HEADING FROM NEEDHAM TO WORCESTER, SORTA WHITE WITH A RED ROLL CAGE. ZR-1 GUNMETAL RIMS AND A REDICULOUSLY LOUD EXHAUST.

COME FIND ME, I am perfectly legal.

 

when i was building my car i was running dual 2 1/2in exhaust through tiny little glasspack in a side pipe type configuration. it was louder that F, i mean you could scream at a person sitting next to you and they would never wven know it. anyway the car was not painted, all it wore was primer sheetmetal, and looked pretty shatty. i was stopped once in NJ for being too loud, it was at night and i told the officer i was just testing the car. he let me go, but told me to put mufflers on the car. so now, 2-3 years down the road i have a 3" setup single pipe into a flowmaster 80 with no cat or emission equipement at all and have never had a problem. its still loud, and when you stand in it you can hear miles from my house. i have the car registered as a collecter vehicle, so its limited mileage, but there is no emission inspection at all. all they do at the inspection station is check to see if the odometer works, and your off. i

 

I really hate people who extends their daily job into every parts and situation of their life. If your a cop, then you should be clocking hours for telling people what to do. And I do believe that the government havent as of yet assigned traffic officers to roam the internet for possible future traffic violators.

If you want to get respect as an officer, you have to let your guard down and also be a citizen, and not be a know-it-all 24/7. Giving advice is fine, but halfway threatening people of future harrasment and possible arrest or worse, is just plain stupid, and will ultimatly work against you and your collegues and the department in general.

Now, I have 2 neighbours which are both cops, and they have another take on this; They both state, that they won't become the streets police force. And in fact haven't bothered me any, and no other neighbours I know either. If someone on the street is doing things they shouldn't do, let the ON DUTY cops do something about it. We all have to live with eachother in the end, every man and woman, citizen or state employed.

 

 

dennis, the paint shop should have a set of plates you could put on your car..

its kinda like the car used small car dealerships, when some one wants to take a car for a test drive they have a plate they screw in, and your on your way..


to late now though

 

yeah would have been good, but it is also an hour away and i need to get plates at some point anyways.... Car is at the shop now and should be done in about a month.

 

Wow, a lot of misconceptions and incorrect info here, but first comments on specific posts:

FL is one of the only states that I think did something sensible with this. They actually did a cost/benefit analysis and found that enforcing emissions laws ended up many times more costly then any benefit that could be assigned to it that they decided to basically repeal (or at least not enforce) the laws/testing that they instituted.

The law is basically that you can only swap an engine that was available in the same type of chassis from the same year or newer, and that is with all the emissions equipment installed that came with the engine. That means that if you have a ’90 camaro you need to swap a 90 or newer engine out of a passenger car with all of it’s emissions equipment intact. The only exception that I know of is if the chassis does not have previsions for cats and the new engine originally did they can be omitted, but that basically only applies to ‘60’s vehicles (pre cat but technically emissions vehicles) that you’re swapping a newer drivetrain into.

WOA, wait a minute! That is a big problem with cops and the traffic courts. Yes, as a member of the executive branch you have discretion in the way you enforce the law, that means that you (in some cases as an officer and in some cases as a department) can choose not to enforce a law or how you enforce a law, but you cannot “interpret” a law or enforce something that doesn’t exist, both of which cops do all the time.

The thing is that traffic court is a joke anyway, and is not conducted as a real court is, most jurisdictions treat it as a revenue source rather then as most people’s first step into the judicial system, so cops get away with all sorts of BS that is technically illegal. I really do not understand why traffic court decisions and actions aren’t challenged more, well besides the fact that usually the stakes aren’t high enough to waste your time and even if they are you are given the impression that you have to stay within the frame work of the traffic court to do it (and as long as you are actually doing whatever you’re doing through the traffic court room, that is somewhat the case as the judge is the ultimate law in his court room). To be blunt, even when the stakes are high, it’s cheaper and easier to hire a lawyer that has good standing in that court and they will usually know what to say and do (often “I went to such and such a program…”) to basically nullify most of the prescribed sanctions for the committed offence. Threat it as a tax, pay the right people the right amount and get on with your life.

This is an interesting example of a law that a lot of areas have (MD used to have something like that, it was challenged, found unconstitutional, so it was just slightly rewritten and put back on the books again I think this summer, hopefully someone will challenge it again), that are technically illegal under the Magnussen Moss Act and a few other sections of fed law that SEMA defends most modifications under.

Usually, in most areas it ends up one of those things that cops don’t really mess with or write tickets for to keep it as a convenient open door to harass you through when they are after you for some reason but don’t have a real legal (intent of the law) reason to. “huh, he gave me a dirty look… performance car, they all have an aftermarket exhaust, I’ll just pull him over for that and then give him a good hard look for anything I can really nail him for”

All kidding aside, you have a badge in your wallet, you get away with crap that most people in your area do not and cannot. What _you_ can and cannot get away with is irrelevant to the discussion. I know cops that have stuff done to their cars that most people locally wouldn’t dare try the way they enforce the laws around here…. I specifically know of an officer that sold his car and the new buyer was ticketed for a bunch of violations on the way home, and then the new buyer spent over 2 months and a couple grand trying to make the car legal again so he could get it registered in his own name unsuccessfully. Last I heard he was suing the officer…

CA is an interesting case. They are enforcing laws in ways that clearly violate people’s rights and no one is really trying to do that much about it. This year they put a new law on the books that basically stated that if the police see any performance modifications (even bodywork) on a car, it is probable cause to pull the car over and check it for illegal modifications.

What’s more interesting (and there have been grumblings of people challenging, but I don’t know of anyone that has gone through with it, I’m guessing because of the unique position that the EPA falls under) is that the EPA has basically prescribed CA laws to specific areas depending on conditions, so basically CA is writing laws that the federal government is forcing other states to follow (long story that I’m not going to get into here, but the EPA is interesting in it’s structure, overall, it doesn’t fit properly into our government structure, is given both legislative and executive powers and in a lot of ways ends up technically outside our legal system, it is a part of the executive branch which has the power to write it’s own laws and enforce them, and has not been successfully challenged in our legal system partially because of that status and partially because there are enough people that feel “we need them…” anyway, like I said, long story).

“Implying? No, I’m stating unequivocally that officers regularly abuse their position (it is not their right as you stated) and this officer did in this case.”

Not always the best way to endear yourself to a kangaroo, I mean traffic court, but sometimes it needs to be said. I’ve actually been in a similar situation where I had a judge ask me “Are you implying that this officer, who is under oath is lying to this court?”

My answer was “yes, he is” (long story, but I filed police brutality, harassment and assault charges against an officer and ended up getting 11 tickets in less then a month and a half after between when I did it and when I went to court for it). I also had pictures and signed statements to prove it.

OK, NOW, the rest of this:

Most states have some relatively minor laws WRT to this stuff, usually some sound requirements and something that says something like “citizens won’t change and will maintain in proper working order…” Like I said, in MD they’ve made attempts to keep people from modifying their exhausts and they have a sound law that is something like 95dB at 100’ (which is insanely loud anyway, occasionally you’ll find someone that gets a ticket for a loud exhaust and I usually tell them to just get the car checked out/tested because I can’t imagine what that is streetable wouldn’t pass).

What we’re talking about here is federal, EPA laws. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU HAVE LOCAL EMISSIONS TESTING LAWS, if you live in the US you fall under the federal laws which proscribe removing emissions devices, and if caught they specify what most would consider an absurd fine + impounded car. You’re also not allowed to replace a factory cat with an aftermarket (like say high flow) cat unless you have your factory cat certified damaged by a registered mechanic (there is actually a form to be filled out in a new cat converter box).

So to answer some of the questions (which the answers should be obvious now), if you come from somewhere that doesn’t have emissions testing and get stopped for this someplace that does, yes, they can impound your car and fine you thousands of dollars for it. As a matter of fact, even if you do not have emissions testing in your area you can be stopped, have the car impounded and be fined for it in your area, it doesn’t matter, it’s federal law. It’s just like kidnapping is a federal offence, doesn’t matter what state you’re in, you’re breaking federal law, the FBI gets involved…

Around here they do roadside testing near some toll booths, on the way to the beach and on rt 95 heading north toward NJ… VA is supposedly starting to do the same, but have set their own state penalties which are much more lenient then the federal ones, they basically mail you a notice, I think a minor fine and require you to get it tested and pass/fixed.

Second, ignorance of the not a defense… in other words, just because you didn’t know it was against the law or because you didn’t know what was done to the car, that doesn’t defend you, you still broke the law. In some cases with more severe offences they will define different levels of the offence by your intensions (say Murder 1 vs lower grades and manslaughter), but not usually something like this.

As far as defending yourself… You’re basically stuck with the mercy of the officer and then the court system since technically if you’re being charged under some relatively minor local ordinance, it could get MUCH worse (oh, and in case you don’t know this, there is nothing that says that a judge can’t try you for something much more serious when you appear in front of him, again, the judge is pretty much the law in a court room), or procedure. As far as procedure, I’d start with giving the ticket in your hand a good hard look, you’d be surprised what percentage of cops are either illiterate morons or too lazy to fill one out properly. I’ve had tickets thrown out in court for them having an incorrect date, non existent location, no charge listed (I suspect that he just didn’t press hard enough for it to come through to my copy, but the judge looked at it and agreed that there was no charge on my ticket) and filled out and signed by a different officer (one that was called for backup) then the one that pulled me over… (don’t ask how many tickets I’ve had… I used to have a house in a ritzy neighborhood and of the many cars I owned I usually drove one of 2 ratty f-bodies that seemed to attract a lot of unnecessary and usually uncalled for attention)

 

Whats unconstitutional about it?

I'm not going to argue because, although we dissagree from time to time, I respect your opionions because they are well thought out and backed up. I may not agree with specific laws, But I don't think the ACLU will be fighting for hot-rodders any time soon..


-- Joe
----------
So if I'm off duty, and your mom is being dragged behind a building and raped, I should go "pbbth, I'm off the clock."..

Driving an uninsured unregistered vehicle is a SAFETY issue. If you're not GROWN UP enough to realize the liability involved, than I do not know what to tell you. Damages, hospital bills all need to be paid.

-- Joe

 

I’m assuming that you mean the exhaust laws, and not the way traffic court is conducted. There are a number of laws, acts… that are written specifically to protect manufacturers of aftermarket parts, it basically all started with making it illegal for OEM’s to say “we’re not going to honor the warranty if you use someone else’s _____.” (oil, tires, vacuum cleaner bags, furnace filters, whatever), and through SEMA and others that has been extended into that changes are legal as long as they don’t harm/go against the intent of regulations to protect the general public. In this case it’s been held that cat back exhausts have no effect on emissions so you can do pretty much what you want as long as it doesn’t effect emissions testing (Like MD for a while got away with having some control over this by having a reg in their emissions testing procedure that said that the tailpipes had to extend to the back bumper in to a location that the tester could find it without looking under the car, but enforcement of that started dying since every major OEM had something that had a side exhaust that passed the existing federal regulations…), and further, they’ve added a way that stuff that does effect emissions could be legal if it is certified or (again, because of the whole CA laws being pushed onto other states, but here it works out for the public) has a CARB EO number.

Sometimes it’s funny who the ACLU ends up defending, but yea, I don’t see it being hotrodders any time soon.

Yea, that statement bothered the hell out of me also. I’M NOT A COP or any sort of law enforcement but if I see someone harming someone, I would and I HAVE gotten involved. I think it’s our responsibility as citizens in making and keeping this a place where we want to live, where people can be safe…

Unfortunately my experience is that when it’s really a safety issue it’s sometimes hard to get on duty cops to do their jobs, (this is coming from when I was a bouncer and the police were called when some bs started between and ex and his girl, he was kicked out and came back with a gun, the cops show up with guns and vests and ended up hiding behind the bouncers), and impossible when off duty (having dealt with an off duty cop in an actual police cruiser at an accident that refused to do anything and left as soon as we got out of the way of the car, and another case where an off duty cop that was the next door neighbor of a house who’s owner’s drunk son broke in, was smashing all the windows… someone knocked on the cops door, he actually said “I’m off duty” and locked the door.)

We’ve had this discussion before on another board… I’m sure that there are decent cops out there, but they are not the ones that you get exposed to day in and day out, especially in a specific county here in MD. Something is really wrong when someone that has never been arrested, no one in my family has ever been arrested, and has such a negative experience with the police. Hell, I don’t even live in that county (only lived there 7 years about 9 years ago, I’m 34), and I’ve never had any of the BS that I’ve had happen there happen anywhere else… even now, I started commuting through that county again and I got pulled over the first time since the last time I was driving through regularly the first week that I was driving through again (got at ticket for going I think it was 12 over while sitting in a traffic jamb, the cop actually had to walk through the backup of cars to get to my car and wrote me a ticket while I was sitting there in the middle lane, WTF? Got pulled over on the way to work for having “mismatched tires” (bigger tires on the back then the front) and ended up sitting on the side of the road for over an hour till the 2 cops found that they couldn’t get a tow truck to show up to tow it away, again, WTF? Oh, how about getting a ticket for 39 in a 30, literally 20' in front of a 40mph speedlimit painted on the road surface).

 

haha... here in canada you dont got to worry about these laws.. no cat in my car... straight pipe.. never been pulled over. in my buddies AMX we ran headers for a week... and we were pulled over once... and the cop was more interested in the car than anything elce.. its sweet here until the winter and you cant driev your car anymore

 

Hehe… just wait till you become the 52 state (Mexico might as well be first since we’re not stopping anything at the boarder and paying for all their poor…)

 

I got pulled over for no front plates. but I was let off with a warning.I see some people put their plates in their front window. is that legal?

 

never got pulled over yet.. (knock on wood).. i run car chemistry "mufflers".. they are the car chemistry header inserts in a tube.. not much noise reduction.. but straight headers are still a lot louder.. i can honestly say i have the loudest streetdriven car on maui.. there is one car that is louder but that guys NEVER drives it on the road.. it has plates and all but its strictly a strip car.. on a normal day, my friend from a few streets away can hear me start my car in the morning.. and where i live, its very windy.. the police usually just look at me, smile, wave, then drive off.. its cool.. hawaii is the s.h.i.t.. well maui is.. the only thing that you can get caught for is tires that stick out waayyyy toooo much and tint.. oh ya, and exhaust on imports..

 

In Mass it isn't legal. The plate has to be attached to the front of the car. They can get you for no front plate AND obstruction of view.

 

Yeah I have gotten 3 warnings cuz no front plate. I allways just have it under the pass. seat and when I get pulled over tell the cop I was on my way to the hardware store to get screws to attach it. Worked everytime. If it is at night, be creative and say you are going to get the screws first thing in the morning. lol. I have been pulled over 16 times and have 2 tickets. I have some experience with MA cops. Only one was in NH and that was a "too loud exhaust". It was stock with a flowmaster muffler. It was quieter than his damn cruiser. hehe. deuchbag.

 

Lucky.... got nailed the other day for no front plate BLAM $35 ticket. The money isn't anything... but now my insurance goes up again!

 

thats gay. Sorry to hear that.

I know I am lucky and am so thankful that I am. I am def gonna run a front plate on my project build. This thing is still supposed to be passing emisions and it is running a 500 HP carbed motor with dumps. lol. WHAT HAVE I DONE!!! lol.


I feel like I just made frankenstein. Oh well. I more muffled exhaust and I don't think they will even look twice.

 

Yah, the gayer part about getting that stupid $35 ticket is the fact that my 2 speeding tix were ALMOST gone (in MA it takes 2 years for your insurance to start going down after a ticket), and that one dumb ticket RESET that counter... so now I have to wait ANOTHER 2 years for the 2 speeding tix and now the front plate ticket to go away!!

 

That is Gayer... I am still waiting for my 2 tickets to go away too. Thig that sux is I really don't drive too fast. Everyone thinks I do, when they hear what I have built, but I acctualy am gonna baby this thing. Only on onramps and at the track will I really let her have it.

 

Same here. I used to drive more reckless (never an accident though) when I was in high school (who didn't?) but I am WAY more careful now.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean "I really hate people who...:"
I meant " I really hate it when people..."

Just wanted to clarify that, it came out wrong.

As for the rest of it, you're right on alot of your points, it's just that it haven't happened yet, hence my point given on rather advicing people than halfway threatening them, as it seems you do. It's more in the tone your writing perhaps than anything else, but thats the impression I get, and seemingly others aswell.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing you for being a standup guy and wanting people do do the right thing, it's just that in some cases things can be taken in such a severe nagative way that the subject at hand do quite the opposite. And that won't do anyone of us any good, would it?


And lets be real here; Thinking about running a car without plates, or even worse, without insurance and causing no other harm than POSSIBLY be involved in an accident with no coverage, can't hardly be compared to violently molesting people to death, even by a long stretch.

And by the way, I'm grown up enough to know that if you treat people nice, they'll listen and probably do as you say.

 

i had straight dauls no cats and headers thru the smallest mufflers i could find got pulled over the cops looked under my hood asked if it had emmisions equipment i said when i got it it had no motor they shook thier heads and told me to drive safe

 

That's exactly what I was told the last time I got pulled over for no front plate and asked the cop if I could put it there. Told him the bracket rivets were pulled out by a parking lot fender bender by a co worker who was going to pay for a new bracket… (partially true, but that was the reason why my wife’s car is missing a front plate) and got a warning.